The Instigator
Evan_Cummings
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
Improbswrong
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points

American Companies should be made to pay outsourced workers in foreign countries American wages

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Evan_Cummings
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/13/2014 Category: Economics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,429 times Debate No: 60433
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (1)

 

Evan_Cummings

Pro

There are many problems occurring around the world, people are starving, families are being torn apart, and almost entire nations socially and economically imprisoned. Many factors cause this to exist, I will reference specifically Mexico and south America.
We will begin from a somewhat recent event, which is NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) this was an economic policy originally thought up by Reagan. It was not signed into law until 1992 under President Clinton. It was said to help American business by increasing foreign investment, while also allowing large companies to 'take advantage of' (Exploit**) the low wages and easier regulations. It was also written to help local investment in Mexico as well as higher standards of living due to increase in GDP and, wage growth. You may think at first, that this was a success. Especially if you look at some numbers, such as, Increase in Mexican production rates, as well as decreased price in products sold in the United States.
This was purely an Economic law, it had no regard for normal people or small business. Small business is a vital part to any economy, this law solely benefited the top of the top. Although Mexican production rates went up, there was no guarantee of local Mexican investment, partly due to no promise of Increased Wages for Mexican workers. Exportation of Mexican beef, poultry and agricultural export increased approximately 9.4% from 1994-2001. All of this seems well until you either venture to Mexico yourself or look at Mexico's standard of living and wages. Mexican meat consumption per capita increased which is of major benefit, although this did nothing to increase the common Dollar a Day wage for the majority of Mexican workers.
It did however increase Mexican export numbers, ever so slightly increased Mexican import numbers.
This is only one of the many biased, unfair , and colonial actions committed by the United States. In the next round I will go into the effect caused by the destruction of revolutions, democratically elected governments, assassination of officials and drug wars carried out by the United states against South America.
Improbswrong

Con

What is the american wage? is the american wage $30 per hour or is it $7.25 per hour. whatever it is, american companies have any right to pay whatever they want in foreign countries. if the minimum wage happens to be $1.00 an hour in a country, then the us companies can pay $1.00 an hour in that country.
It is humanly right for foreign country workers to get the same pay as Americans, but politically, the companies don't have to.
Debate Round No. 1
Evan_Cummings

Pro

Of course right now they are allowed to pay anything they'd like but we are significantly more powerful than Mexico and many larger companies could afford to pay more. Yes American wages, as in the range of wages. If they pay more in mex ico, it could prompt mexican companies to pay more, as well as prompt american companies to refrain from outsourcing as many jobs as they do. I understand, economically you couldnt jump mexican wages to drastically but a small increase over time, may have the ability not only to raise the stabdard of living but may also reduce the number of people coming the us illegally. A family may be able to rely more on a good factory job than say a farm or the cartel. Eventually as wages go up, as well as in investment , mexican work force could be diversified. If we focused some type of our litigation just to target a few larger companies by making them to pay more it would also better our reputation. To me its not only a political issue,, but ethical practice. By targetting larger, stronger companies who wont go broke over this , small businesses on both sides of our divide would see some lucrative windows pop up.
Improbswrong

Con


In the United States, the federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, which translates to approximately $1160 per month (assuming 40 hour days on all weekdays). In addition to the wages offered to employees, businesses are mandated to contribute money to workers’ Social Security and provide basic healthcare packages. Federal labor laws and workers unions (where applicable) prevent corporations from forcing workers to work excessive hours or in dangerous conditions. While many workers rights groups say that American labor laws are antiquated and need to be improved, it remains true that they are more stringent than those of many other countries.


China has no centralized minimum wage, and leaves its provinces to decide upon their minimum wages. The province with the highest minimum wage is the Shenzhan province, which has a minimum monthly wage of 1,500 yuan (In USD, this translates to $240.55 a month for full time workers). The Jiangxi province is the province with the lowest minimum wage, weighing in at a terrible monthly wage of 870 yuan (USD equivalent of $139.52). In addition to the low wages, China has no requirements that employers provide benefits to their workers, and there are few labor laws that protect workers from abuses.


The wide disparity in labor costs between China and the United States illustrates just why it can be extremely profitable for a corporation to outsource labor. Rather than pay Americans to produce goods, many corporations find it more profitable to produce goods in countries where labor is cheap and then transport the goods back to the USA for sale—the increased profitability that comes with outsourcing labor more than makes up for the increased transportation costs that stem from getting outsourced products back to the states. While outsourcing is not viable for some goods (ex. goods which require specialized skills to produce), it has been prevalent in the low-skilled labor sectors of textiles, customer service, and industrial fabrication.


Debate Round No. 2
Evan_Cummings

Pro

We have the power to help those countries rise up. We don't have to jump to 15.00 an hour warehouse jobs for china and mexico. But we could raise the payment which would make us even more competitive for laborers in other countries. Regardless of if said country excepts it or not. We would not except China making factories here and paying our children 2.00 a day. But that's because we have a choice , often times they have Zero choice except to work under those conditions. I am sorry but we should strive for the common good not the common Deal. The best way to exploit a people in order to maintain a specifically western style of living. 53% of mexicans live in poverty, what would be the harm in making american companies strive to higher standards outside of our borders? What about decency and respect? Business Ethics? CEO of Japan Airlines cut his own pay, and takes the bus to work everyday. His pilots make less than he does. I am not saying all of our CEO's need to go to that extreme of a level but we have Power and we should not just be on the hunt for the best deal. Dollar a day jobs aren't except able practice here in the United States, why should we act in such a way outside of our borders?
Improbswrong

Con

You obviously have no idea of what you're discussing.
Who cares about peoples' emotions?
How could companies exist if they didn't pay fair wages to their workers?
How could you try to force employers to pay their employees supposedly fair wages?
If you did try, what would happen?
China is apparently a Communist country.
Communism doesn't work.
You shouldn't automatically believe anything the Communists put out.
Are they still pouring $ that they can't afford into such things as their controversial 3 Gorges Dam project?

Debate Round No. 3
Evan_Cummings

Pro

Evan_Cummings forfeited this round.
Improbswrong

Con

Improbswrong forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Evan_Cummings

Pro

Evan_Cummings forfeited this round.
Improbswrong

Con

Improbswrong forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
cheyennebodie
When are liberals going to quit using force to make people do what they would not do using good judgment. Profit is not a bad word in the real world.Only in the emotion driven liberal mind is profit a bad word.When the liberal controlled government intrudes into business with high taxes and overbearing regulations is it necessary to go overseas.Now you liberals are not content to have power over other peoples money here at home, now you want to extend it into other countries.I look at liberalism as a contagious disease. Freedom of choice is the only antidote for it. But I have found out that liberals would have to be held down, kicking and screaming, and forced by the constitution to take their medicine.
Posted by Hanspete 3 years ago
Hanspete
I made an error in that last comment when I say it is morally right for people to get payed I meant American wages no just payed in general
Posted by Hanspete 3 years ago
Hanspete
As much as I think it would be morally right for people living in other countries to get payed it is completely inconceivable to think it will happen, but one day it may.
Posted by Evan_Cummings 3 years ago
Evan_Cummings
What do you mean how could companies exist if they Didn't Pay Fair wages?? You ever looked into the economic collapses of the late 1800s? I guess not...
Its about spreading the wealth in a productive way. Literally, people are Killed by american companies in Guatemala, don't believe me. Go there yourself and look at the armed guards making sure no one eats the fruit they pick. Why should we allow very powerful countries to pay these workers such a small wage? Only because the nation they are operating in excepts it ? If we have foundations in Liberty than we would not except this. Our constitution is to protect us from the government, and those who have power such as organizations and companies. Of course Mexico, China, India and other places leaders are Okay to pay their workers the wage they are Used to. Because the top people will still get a significant cut that keeps them wealthy and the rest poor. We could help the entire world by just bringing up the wages they are paid by American companies only. If you take away all regulations you will get the same problems we'v had in the past. You need business regulations and something can be done to help this, its about the ethics of what we claim to be our values.
Posted by Vajrasattva-LeRoy 3 years ago
Vajrasattva-LeRoy
You obviously have no idea of what you're discussing.
Who cares about peoples' emotions?
How could companies exist if they didn't pay fair wages to their workers?
How could you try to force employers to pay their employees supposedly fair wages?
If you did try, what would happen?
China is apparently a Communist country.
Communism doesn't work.
You shouldn't automatically believe anything the Communists put out.
Are they still pouring $ that they can't afford into such things as their controversial 3 Gorges Dam project?
Posted by Evan_Cummings 3 years ago
Evan_Cummings
Yeah, it makes me angry. You have any knowledge of the issue ? Discussion is a major key to the flow of information.
Posted by Vexorator 3 years ago
Vexorator
It sounds like someone just needed to vent some of their anger.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ajabi 3 years ago
Ajabi
Evan_CummingsImprobswrongTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: All right first off I think I need to say horrible horrible debate. In any case I award Conduct to Con because Pro forfeited first, and so Con gets the Conduce (even if s/he forfeited twice also). As for argumentation I place the BoP on Pro here. Even though Pro hardly had a good case I think he did make an argument on how America should be more altruistic, it can help other economies grow, and the current wages are not good enough. Con I believe did not answer these contentions to a suitable point, where while s/he may have said it was communistic, s/he did not connect it to "should", therefore I award argument to Pro. As always happy to clarify this RFD. #VotingSquad