The Instigator
Kohaku
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
BlueKnight
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

American Production did a bad job on the American version of Cardcaptors.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Kohaku
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/13/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,573 times Debate No: 12641
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (2)

 

Kohaku

Pro

Card Captor Sakura was one of the best Animes and one of my favorites by all levels. But when it came to the US, the American Production Studios such as Nelvana, Kids WB and 4Kids did a terrible job on editing and decision-making on Cardcaptors in America.

One bad thing that the American Production did was editing out the romances between Sakura and Syaoran. Sakura and Syaoran are considered as one of the best Anime couples to many fans, but editing the Syaoran and Sakura out ended up unpleasing and disgusting a lot of fans. Taking out many romance scenes between Syaoran and Sakura was the worst move they ever made, in fact it was one of the worst editing that has ever happened on a Anime. Taking many of your best scenes (which was the romance scenes between Sakura and Syaoran) is like the New York Yankees trading away Derek Jeter and Alex Rodriguez for an ice cream cone, it is a never good idea. The Sakura and Syaoran are considered as one of the best couples to a lot of Cardcaptor fans.

http://www.fanfiction.net...

There are so many You Tube videos and Fan Fiction based on the romance between Sakura and Syaoran to tell the intensity by fans about the romance between Sakura and Syaoran, but Nelvana were ignorant about that detail and let many of the Cardcaptors fans down and that also damage the plot. The only thing that Nelvana corrected their mistakes is with Cardcaptor's Second Movie, letting the romances between Sakura and Syaoran happened.

Another reason that the American production did a bad job with Cardcaptors is the character personality changes. In the Japanese version, Sakura was a cheerful and sweet girl while Syaoran is a kind and caring young boy who would defend Sakura against anything. In the American version, they made Sakura a bratty child and Syaoran a bully, which also upsetting many fans and critics (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...).

Reviews also gave a lot of negatives comments to the American Production of Cardcaptors. http://www.ccsvscc.com... and http://www27.brinkster.com...

And fans gave reviews of their own about the decision of taking out some of the romance scenes between Sakura and Syaoran, most of them are negative. http://www.tv.com..., http://www.tv.com... and http://boards.fansub.tv... and http://www.fanpop.com....

They said that the show was meant for younger viewers but doing that was a big mistake, says so by many fans and reviews.

I would like to ask the Cardcaptor fans to comment of what they think about editing out many of the Sakura and Syaoran romance scenes if they like that decision or not and why.

Even comments from You Tube went negative on the American version of Cardcaptors. Cardcaptor Sakura vs. Cardcaptors Upgrade TMS Version part 2 was one of them.

I saw many negative comments of how a lousy jobs that Nelvana and the rest of the editing productions have done. The big reason was the fact they take out many of the romance scenes between Sakura and Syaoran. All they could have done to have an ‘unedited' American version to please the fans, I know it would have worked.

I did made a threat comment on a Cardcaptors You Tube video (now deleted) that I would like to give a kick in the head and run him over with my car on the person responsible editing out the romance scenes of Syaoran and Sakura, many people cheered and agreed with my threat comment against the editors.
BlueKnight

Con

I say that the American production did a good job because they were able to get the Anime to the United States (11). Some great Anime never even made it to the United States, such as various Gundam series that were considered good (1).

For the romance between Sakura and Syaoran, that is a good idea because the show was intended for children, not for teens or adults. So their romance would be inappropriate for young children (2). Plus Card Captor Sakura in Japan was intended for female audiences and toning down the romances would make an all gender audiences in America (3).

Li Syaoran has a large fan base in the US (4) and (5), so the American Production went ahead by putting Li Syaoran as a co-leading character than being a supporting character in the Japanese Series.

The critics did not know what they are doing and many of the fans knows only little about how difficult the production on Anime to the US can be, so their comments and views are invalid and unreliable. In their views about Syaoran and Sakura romance being cut, the show as intended for young children and not young teens or young adults (6)(7)(8), so their words and comments has no meaning of how bad was the American Production on Cardcaptors was.

As many fans seems to believe that Syaoran and Sakura are a good couple based on your You Tube videos and ‘fanfiction' source, it is all a moot as some fans believe in the "Naruto" series that Naruto and Ino are together (9) or Sasuke and Hinata are together (10) and I don't see any hints on the actual series and check my first two you tube videos to check it out.

So unless you got some more solid evidence that Sakura and Syaoran is a couple (not to a lot of fans) in the debate, your views Sakura and Syaoran are a couple are inefficient.

(1)http://www.mahq.net....
(2)http://en.wikipedia.org....
(3)http://www.mahq.net...
(4)http://www.facebook.com...
(5)http://www.fanfiction.net...
(6)http://www.commonsensemedia.org...
(7)http://rara79.netfirms.com...
(8)http://www.worldlingo.com...
(9)http://www.fanfiction.net...
(10)http://www.fanfiction.net...
(11)http://www.imdb.com...
Debate Round No. 1
Kohaku

Pro

"So unless you got some more solid evidence that Sakura and Syaoran is a couple (not to a lot of fans) in the debate, your views Sakura and Syaoran are a couple are inefficient:"

Have you seen the You Tube videos? Most of them are from clips from the actual Japanese series. Episode 66 shows Sakura crying over Syaoran's shoulders and Syaoran is holding and comforting her. . Episode 67 shows Sakura asking Syaoran on a date and making him a scarf to prove her thanks and sacrificing her sleep to do so and in Episode 36 shows Sakura crying about her lost wristwatch and then Syaoran cheers her up by wanting to help to her find the wristwatch . Episode 70 and the second movie of Cardcaptor also give this biggest reveal about the relation between Sakura and Syaoran, they are in love and many Cardcaptor fans approve and love their romance based on all the comments of my You Tube videos..

In the American Version of Episode 66, the clip about Sakura crying over Syaoran's shoulders was taken out, made a lot of fans angry [1].

Also Cardcaptor is not Naruto, so there is a huge difference between them. Meaning the Sakura and Syaoran romance is totally different from your fantasy couples in the Naruto series.

"The critics did not know what they are doing and many of the fans knows only little about how difficult the production on Anime to the US can be, so their comments and views are invalid and unreliable."

How the critics would not know what they are doing? They are critics and it is their job to know every chemistry to a television cartoon series and TV critic's views always matters [2]. Unless you got some good source that explains that critics AND a majority fans together don't matter, their views still matters to the Cardcaptor series.

"I say that the American production did a good job because they were able to get the Anime to the United States. Some great Anime never even made it to the United States, such as various Gundam series that were considered good".

Bringing an Anime series to the US does not always mean the production did a good job, it is how they finish everything is the most important. The decision making on the editing was a big fail on the American Production of Cardcaptors because it made a lot of fans and critics unhappy and destroying much of the plot [3][4].

Many of the fans in American preferred watching the Japanese or any other foreign Card Captor Sakura series with the subtitles rather watching the American's series of Cardcaptors [5][6][7][8][9].

"For the romance between Sakura and Syaoran, that is a good idea because the show was intended for children, not for teens or adults."

Having the show targeting for young children was a bad idea and it should have gone for young teen and young adults, since there were a lot of fans that were much older kids like ages 10 and up for Cardcaptors [9], many comments of the You Tube videos of Cardcaptors say so. .

I would like to ask the viewers of the debate to go into these Cardcaptor You Tube videos and read many of the comments they can to get the intensity of how good Cardcaptors could have been in the US if they just target young teens and older.

So research that the best target audience should be was a fail too, also say so by so many comments from fans from many of my sources.

So research of knowing that could have been their best audience was and editing were both a big fail that lead the Americanize Cardcaptors to disastrous results.

"As many fans seems to believe that Syaoran and Sakura are a good couple based on your You Tube videos and ‘fanfiction' source, it is all a moot as some fans believe in the "Naruto" series that Naruto and Ino are together or Sasuke and Hinata are together and I don't see any hints on the actual series and check my first two you tube videos to check it out."

I don't understand your meaning here; you need to be more specific.

[1] http://www.tv.com...
[2] http://news.yahoo.com...
[3] http://www27.brinkster.com...
[4] http://www.ccsvscc.com...
[5] http://www.tv.com...
[6] http://animeboards.com...
[7] http://animeboards.com...
[8] http://boards.fansub.tv...
[9] http://www.anime-source.com...
BlueKnight

Con

"Also Cardcaptor is not Naruto, so there is a huge difference between them. Meaning the Sakura and Syaoran romance is totally different from your fantasy couples in the Naruto series."

Cardcaptors may not be the Naruto series, but they both still have the same romance stature. Meaning that you are saying in your first round debate that Syaoran and Sakura are a strong couple according to the fans, so can they say about Naruto and Ino being a couple and Sasuke and Hinata being a couple. Despite with all your ‘You Tube videos', your views about Sakura and Syaoran being a strong couple is still a moot. Any other pairing couple could have happened, just like Sakura and Yukito (1).

You wrote that: "I would like to ask the viewers of the debate to go into these Cardcaptor You Tube videos and read many of the comments they can to get the intensity of how good Cardcaptors could have been in the US if they just target young teens and older."

Cartoon main audience is children (2). As a children's show, the American Production did a good job of Cardcaptors. Many of the American Cardcaptor DVDs got more than three stars to that show the American production did a good job (3).

"Having the show targeting for young children was a bad idea and it should have gone for young teen and young adults, since there were a lot of fans that were much older kids like ages 10 and up for Cardcaptors, many comments of the You Tube videos of Cardcaptors say so."

Like I said, the fans and their comments don't know much about the cartoon business as the ‘cartoon' producers and executives of the American production does. If they think children are the better targets, then they are the better targets because they are cartoon executives and producers. Plus I don't see any comments proving the cartoon should have gone to ‘older kids'.

"How the critics would not know what they are doing? They are critics and it is their job to know every chemistry to a television cartoon series and TV critic's views always matters. Unless you got some good source that explains that critics AND a majority fans together don't matter, their views still matters to the Cardcaptor series"

Well critics can be bias so their words and views do not matter to the American Cardcaptor series (4). Again, the fan's views to a series means little for a cartoon production's views and a series cannot please EVERYONE (5).

"As many fans seems to believe that Syaoran and Sakura are a good couple based on your You Tube videos and ‘fanfiction' source, it is all a moot as some fans believe in the "Naruto" series that Naruto and Ino are together or Sasuke and Hinata are together and I don't see any hints on the actual series and check my first two you tube videos to check it out. I don't understand your meaning here; you need to be more specific."

I meant that I don't see any actual romance between Sasuke and Hinata or Naruto and Hinata in the actually Naruto series, just like Syaoran and Sakura in the actual American production Cardcaptor series. As for your second round You Tube videos, they are just inappropriate for young children, the real and better target audience.

(1)http://www.blingcheese.com...
(2)http://en.wikipedia.org...
(3)http://www.amazon.com...
(4)http://www.forbes.com...
(5)http://tvtropes.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Kohaku

Pro

You wrote…
"Cardcaptors may not be the Naruto series, but they both still have the same romance stature. Meaning that you are saying in your first round debate that Syaoran and Sakura are a strong couple according to the fans, so can they say about Naruto and Ino being a couple and Sasuke and Hinata being a couple. Despite with all your ‘You Tube videos', your views about Sakura and Syaoran being a strong couple is still a moot. Any other pairing couple could have happened, just like Sakura and Yukito."
How can you still say Syaoran and Sakura are not a couple? There were Sakura and Syaoran romance moments in the Japanese series more than any other romance moments of the series and I have my You Tube videos to prove it. CLAMP, the creator of Card Captor Sakura also ended with Syaoran and Sakura being "together forever" (1)(2). For the Anime, the series ended with the second movie by Sakura admitting her love for Syaoran. Maybe you can explain to me how can fans AND the creators of Card Captor Sakura could be so wrong? Maybe if Sakura and Syaoran are a strong couple could be our next debate.
My point is that Syaoran and Sakura romance was the big advantage for the whole series and taking out the big advantage is a huge and avoidable mistake.
You wrote: "Like I said, the fans and their comments don't know much about the cartoon business as the ‘cartoon' producers and executives of the American production does. If they think children are the better targets, then they are the better targets because they are cartoon executives and producers. Plus I don't see any comments proving the cartoon should have gone to ‘older kids'."
The Japanese production of Card Captor Sakura was targeted for older kids, teens and young adults, and it worked for Japan and the United States and the older kids, teens and young adults liked the Japanese version more than the American version with fan comments and the number of starts the Japanese version got comparing to the American version of Cardcaptors (3)(4)(5).
The Card Captor Sakura creators and Japanese production originally made it for
The fans' views about any television series do matter because they are the judges of how well the series and the production did, and seeing their views about the American production of Cardcaptors, they were not to trilled. First the decisions for the editing were horrible and unpleased a lot of fans (6)(7).
Second, the editing destroyed much of the plot and the flow of the storyline (8)(9). In the Japanese version, they had a very good plot going until the American version changed the plot and made it a bad plot, I don't how see that how is that a good job (10)(11)(12) by changing a good plot to a confusing and bad plot.
Third, the American Production did a bad job of Cardcaptors is that they could have done much better research that they should target young teens and young adults, then it could have been a better result. Plus it should not matter if the American production continued to let Card Captor Sakura to be a girl's show, because might watch it regardless (13).
Plus you have not yet defending the personality changes. Sakura in the Japanese version is a cheerful, sweet and loveable girl to a bratty and self-obsessed girl in the American series and Syaoran was a caring and kind young man in the Japanese series to a arrogant bully and a unkind idiot (14). I don't get how having a bad personality would be a good thing vs. having a great personality would be a bad thing. It is like telling the children of America they should be bratty and rude vs. being sweet, caring and kind.
"Plus I don't see any comments proving the cartoon should have gone to ‘older kids'."
Many of those comments are from young teens and older and they say how much they enjoyed Card Captor Sakura of the Japanese version and how much they were disappointed with the Americanize Cardcaptors (15)(16).
You wrote: "the fans and their comments don't know much about the cartoon business as the ‘cartoon' producers and executives of the American production does. If they think children are the better targets, then they are the better targets because they are cartoon executives and producers."
Being an executive or a producer does not mean that you know everything because you still can make disastrous mistakes (17)(18), just like the Nelvana producers and executives did with Cardcaptors. One the major faults they did that they underestimate their audience's intelligence.
There are so many ways that the American production could have done a good and better job, but the American production fell short and did a disastrous job. One was they should not have taken away the romance between Sakura and Syaoran and destroying a good plot as they had one to begin with. Before Card Captor Sakura came to the United States, it was a good Anime to a lot of American viewers and then when it came to the United States, it was horrible due to bad plotting, terrible changes to many of the characters names and personalities and horrible decision makings with the editing. Honestly, I could have done a better job and made much better decisions. I would have target the cartoon to young teens and older and I would not have taken out the romance scenes between Sakura and Syaoran because that was the big advantage to the series.
The American Production could have done they just could have an unedited version of Cardcaptors but they did not, because they failed due to too many bad decisions that lead the series to a fail and causing to have a lack of money to do so.
I believe I have proven my points that the American Production did a bad job on Cardcaptors.

(1)http://ccs.wikia.com...
(2)http://www.tenmanga.com...
(3)http://www.amazon.com...
(4)http://www.tv.com...
(5)http://animeboards.com...
(6)http://www.amazon.com...
(7)http://animeboards.com...
(8)http://www27.brinkster.com...
(9)http://www.japanator.com...
(10)http://ph.answers.yahoo.com...
(11)http://www.anime-planet.com...
(12)http://www.animetric.com...
(13)http://www.animenewsnetwork.com...
(14)http://webcache.googleusercontent.com...
(15)http://boards.fansub.tv...
(16)http://animeboards.com...
(17)http://www.leadershipnow.com...
(18)http://blogs.hbr.org...
BlueKnight

Con

My Final statement.

"How can you still say Syaoran and Sakura are not a couple? There were Sakura and Syaoran romance moments in the Japanese series more than any other romance moments of the series and I have my You Tube videos to prove it. CLAMP, the creator of Card Captor Sakura also ended with Syaoran and Sakura being "together forever" (1)(2). For the Anime, the series ended with the second movie by Sakura admitting her love for Syaoran. Maybe you can explain to me how can fans AND the creators of Card Captor Sakura could be so wrong? Maybe if Sakura and Syaoran are a strong couple could be our next debate."

I still say that Sakura and Syaoran is still a moot and not the advantage to the series as you said it would be. But if you want to debate that Syaoran and Sakura are a couple, I am up for it.

"The American Production could have done they just could have an unedited version of Cardcaptors but they did not, because they failed due to too many bad decisions that lead the series to a fail and causing to have a lack of money to do so."

Having an unedited version in the United States would be too expensive to begin with.

"There are so many ways that the American production could have done a good and better job, but the American production fell short and did a disastrous job. One was they should not have taken away the romance between Sakura and Syaoran and destroying a good plot as they had one to begin with. Before Card Captor Sakura came to the United States, it was a good Anime to a lot of American viewers and then when it came to the United States, it was horrible due to bad plotting, terrible changes to many of the characters names and personalities and horrible decision makings with the editing. Honestly, I could have done a better job and made much better decisions. I would have target the cartoon to young teens and older and I would not have taken out the romance scenes between Sakura and Syaoran because that was the big advantage to the series."

I still say that Cardcaptors would still be a much better show for children, not for young teens or young adults. The plot between Japan and the United States could not be the same or the show would be very predictable. You and several other fans say that the plot was destroyed, but the TRUTH is that the plot was still good with good star ratings (1)(2).

"Third, the American Production did a bad job of Cardcaptors is that they could have done much better research that they should target young teens and young adults, then it could have been a better result. Plus it should not matter if the American production continued to let Card Captor Sakura to be a girl's show, because might watch it regardless. Plus you have not yet defending the personality changes. Sakura in the Japanese version is a cheerful, sweet and loveable girl to a bratty and self-obsessed girl in the American series and Syaoran was a caring and kind young man in the Japanese series to a arrogant bully and a unkind idiot. I don't get how having a bad personality would be a good thing vs. having a great personality would be a bad thing. It is like telling the children of America they should be bratty and rude vs. being sweet, caring and kind."

Your ‘Personality Statement' is the same reason as my plot reason, you can't make it the same as the original version (in other words, the Japanese series of Cardcaptors) or the series in the United States would be very predictable.

The biggest reason that I believe that the American Production did a good job that they were able to get an American series of Cardcaptors and beat out several other competitions for the series. Please vote for me.

(1)http://www.google.com...
(2)http://www.amazon.com...
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by ReDo 6 years ago
ReDo
I agree with Kohaku, the American version of Cardcaptors was really bad or worse than the Japanese version of Card Captors. The Japanese version of Card Captor Sakura is a great series. If I had to choose between Japan or the United States' series of Card Captor Sakura, I would have to chose the Japanese version with no hesitation.
Posted by Korashk 6 years ago
Korashk
Ya know what, why not. I will accept this debate simply because I used to like Cardcaptors.
Posted by Kleptin 6 years ago
Kleptin
This debate could be won too easily if I just argue that the scale of comparison is invalid. I could just say that they did a good job in that the whole thing was translated efficiently to English.

I don't want to argue semantics anymore, so I won't accept this obviously one-sided debate.

Make it open instead.
Posted by TheSkeptic 6 years ago
TheSkeptic
lol not only do I don't have adequate knowledge on this subject, but it seems pretty well acknowledged that it was a bad move. Perhaps you should make it an open debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by ReDo 6 years ago
ReDo
KohakuBlueKnightTied
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Vote Placed by Kikematsu 6 years ago
Kikematsu
KohakuBlueKnightTied
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