The Instigator
debate777
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Pluto2493
Con (against)
Winning
39 Points

Americans having free health care!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/30/2007 Category: Health
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,659 times Debate No: 1187
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (8)
Votes (13)

 

debate777

Pro

We should have free health care because America is obviously the "land of the free" and even though we have other free systems, why hasn't the goverment had the common sense yet to have free health care like England or France? Do people not see that these countries not only have better health, but have a better chance to live than all of us Americans, even the wealthy ones?! It just doesn't make sense to me at all!
Pluto2493

Con

This is an argument I agree on, but to learn more about it, I'll take con.

1. There isn't a single government agency or division that runs efficiently; do we really want an organization that developed the U.S. Tax Code handling something as complex as health care?
2. "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.
3. Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness.
4. Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.
5. Patients aren't likely to curb their drug costs and doctor visits if health care is free; thus, total costs will be several times what they are now.
6. Just because Americans are uninsured doesn't mean they can't receive health care; nonprofits and government-run hospitals provide services to those who don't have insurance, and it is illegal to refuse emergency medical service because of a lack of insurance.
7. Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care.
8. Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc.
9. A long, painful transition will have to take place involving lost insurance industry jobs, business closures, and new patient record creation.
10. Loss of private practice options and possible reduced pay may dissuade many would-be doctors from pursuing the profession.
11. Like social security, any government benefit eventually is taken as a "right" by the public, meaning that it's politically near impossible to remove or curtail it later on when costs get out of control.

Cite: Joe Messerli. "Should the Government Provide Free Universal Health Care for All Americans?" 11/27/07
Debate Round No. 1
debate777

Pro

Many of your statements are questionable, so let me state the obvious:

1. Many Americans are rejected by their insurance companies.

2. Many Americans don't have the kind of money to pay for these bills they get!

3. Even if the bank did give the person a loan, they would still have to pay!

So as I rest my case, all I have to say is that many Americans will DIE if they don't have the money they need!
Pluto2493

Con

My opponent did not properly respond to all of my arguments. Please extend all of my 11 points into this speech as they went uncontested. You should vote Con now on these points, because they went uncontested.

Also, my opponent says that people will die without having universal health care. First of all, more people won't die, just the same amount that are dying now. Second, I've proven the government can't solve, and since the pro did not answer this, they conceed that more people will die, be put out of jobs, and it will only lead to backlash of healthy people. Third, Capatialism is what makes this country great. Do you know what we call a country where the government thinks everything should be free? Communist. Look how that turned out. Capatialism is, even though people die from not having insuance, a great thing. Four, your spectacle of suffering is wrong.

1.The world's attempt to rationalize and stabilize a chaotic world- in its prevention of chaos and suffering, goes on a constant search for what is inherently true in the world, IE the will to truth. (Paul Saurette, Prof Political Theory at John Hopkins University, 1996) The will to truth can only lead to destruction- systematically killing off every new idol eventually turning inward. Nihilism is inevitable- only experiencing nihilism can we escape the current value system and embrace new values.
The great philosopher Frederic Nietzsche wrote in his book 'Beyond Good and Evil' that the attempt to prevent suffering makes us all slaves to the so called good natured freedom. We have an obligation to break free of our current assumption of suffering must be resisted and the mass promotion of human rights as being championed by the assumption of a necessary truth.

2.SPECTACLES OF SUFFERING SERVE AS ALIBIS FOR OTHER FORMS OF OPPRESSION WHICH JUSTIFY VIOLENCE AND OPPRESSION WORSE THAN THE CASE. SEEMING BENEVOLENT ACTORS LIKE THE RED CROSS CAN INSPIRE RACISM AND VIOLENCE WHEN CONSTRUCTING SPECTACLES OF SUFFERING. WE HAVE AN ETHICAL OBLIGATION TO CRITICALLY EXAMINE THE JUSTIFICATIONS FOR POLICIES OR WE RISK REPRODUCING THE VERY HARMS WE SEEK TO ALLEVIATE. MY CRITICISM ASKS THE UNDERLYING QUESTION, "AT WHAT COST?"

One is obligated only to oneself- the attempt to perfect ones most utmost self- all other obligations are just illusions.

"From the very first, Christianity spelled life loathing itself, and that loathing was simply disguised, tricked out, with notions of an "other" and "better" life. A hatred of the "world" a curse on the affective urges, a fear of beauty and sensuality, a transcendence rigged up to slander mortal existence, a yearning for extinction, cessation of all effort until the great "Sabbath of Sabbaths"—this whole cluster of distortions, together with the intransigent Christian assertion that nothing counts except moral values, had always struck me as being the most dangerous, most sinister form the will to destruction can take; at all events, as a sign of profound sickness, moroseness, exhaustion, biological etiolation. And since according to ethics (specifically Christian, absolute ethics) life will always be in the wrong, it followed quite naturally that one must smother it under a load of contempt and constant negation; must view it as an object not only unworthy of our desire but absolutely worthless in itself.
As for morality, on the other hand, could it be anything but a will to deny life, a secret instinct of destruction, a principle of calumny, a reductive agent---the beginning of the end?—and, for that very reason, the Supreme Danger?"
~Freidrich Nietzsche, Philosopher, 1872 (The Birth of Tragedy. Translated Golffing, 1956. p. 9-11)

Vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 2
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by theaceb 9 years ago
theaceb
Ok yeah I suspected Michael Moore had a hand in this debate, it all makes sense as to why a 10 year old is talking about healthcare. Well it's good that you at least got your argument from a completely factual, non-biased source.

Damnit I got applesauce and Nicktoons spilled all over me from reading this debate.
Posted by debate777 9 years ago
debate777
Excuse me, seldumonde, but have you seen the Michael Moore movie "Sicko?"

P.S. Hehe, right back to you!
Posted by Vikuta 9 years ago
Vikuta
Actually, Germans have shorter average waits than Americans at half the cost.
Posted by Pluto2493 9 years ago
Pluto2493
hahahahahaha no VOTE CON! I've had 5 debates where i was pro. Disregard the last sentence.
Posted by Korezaan 9 years ago
Korezaan
Pluto, I only have one comment for you.

Can you be more sure about which side you're on?

Here's you at the beginning of R2.
---"My opponent did not properly respond to all of my arguments. Please extend all of my 11 points into this speech as they went uncontested. You should vote Con now on these points, because they went uncontested."

Here's you at the end.
---"Vote Pro."

Like wth lolz.
Posted by seldumonde 9 years ago
seldumonde
Hehe... with an argument like that I'm not surprised that the debater is 10 years old...

In any case there is no such thing as "free" health care. If there was why would anyone oppose that? Would anyone oppose free cookies or free beer? Of course socialized health care is far from free, in fact it would be insanely expensive. Just look at Medicare/Medicaid, that have grown far beyond what anyone expected. Socialized health care will cripple our economy and grow government to near-Soviet levels.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
Okay Im not trying to be rude , but isn't there some age restrictions on this site? I would think with some of the topics that 10 years old is too young to be on an internet site like this.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
debate777, Have you seen the level of care in these countries? It is not nearly the same standard of care as we have here. There are also waiting lists that go on and on. How about the government run hospitals we do have , Walter Reed has a great reputation .... What good is free care if you lose your standard of care?
13 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by DJ 9 years ago
DJ
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