The Instigator
shneezers
Pro (for)
Losing
21 Points
The Contender
KRFournier
Con (against)
Winning
41 Points

An Avocado is a Fruit

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/15/2008 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,993 times Debate No: 6249
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (10)

 

shneezers

Pro

This is a heated discussion between me and my friends

my value for this debate is fruitalicious

my criterion is fruiting

avocado refers to the fruit (technically a large berry) of the tree that contains a pit (hard seed casing) which may be egg-shaped or spherical. Avocados are a commercially valuable crop whose trees and fruit are cultivated in tropical climates throughout the world (and some temperate ones, such as southern California), producing a green-skinned, pear-shaped fruit that ripens after harvesting. Trees are partially self-pollinating and often are propagated through grafting to maintain a predictable quality and quantity of the fruit.
KRFournier

Con

I thank my opponent for starting this important debate. Certainly, determining the fruitiness of the avocado is as important a question as the meaning of life. So, let's get down to the truth.

I am against the resolution that an avocado is a fruit.

1. Botanical categories are separate from culinary categories.

Botany: The characteristic features and biology of a particular kind of plant or plant group. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com...)
Culinary: Of or relating to a kitchen or to cookery. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com...)

Botanical classifications endeavor to organize plant life according to similar biological characteristics. In the case of fruit, it is categorized by it's scientific properties: its chemicals, germination, etc. Culinary classifications rely on a different set of properties, primarily its taste and contribution to a recipe. Therefore, that which is classified as a fruit in botany need not be classified as a fruit in the kitchen. The classifications are separate and based on different criteria.

Take for example the classification of "toy." Given two demographics, children and hunters, classify the following objects: basketball, rifle. Basketball might be considered a toy for both demographics, but the rifle only falls into the category for the hunter. The hunter may say to his hunter buddies, "Check out my new toy," but say to his son, "Do not touch this gun. It is not a toy." Classifications such as these are context sensitive.

2. The avocado is a culinary vegetable.

According to WikiAnswers, "Botanically, [Avocado] is a fruit but culinary or in the kitchen it is often treated as a vegetable." (http://wiki.answers.com...) Indeed, the most popular use of avocado is with chicken and vegetarian dishes. (http://www.avocadofruit.com...). Avocados are not a sweet as culinary fruit and the high amount of monounsaturated fatty acids gives it a more savory flavor. As a result, it is treated in kitchen like a vegetable.

While avocados are sometimes used in desserts, this is not sufficient to classify it as a culinary fruit. After all, carrots are used to make carrot cake but are still culinary vegetables. Culinary classifications are concerned with primary usage and individual flavor. Primarily, the avocado is a culinary vegetable.

Another botanical fruit that is indisputably considered a culinary vegetable is the tomato. The tomato is used almost exclusively in savory dishes, from pizzas to soups to salads. If tomatoes, which are also a botanical fruit, can be a culinary vegetable, so can the avocado. Indeed, these two ingredients are often used together in Californian cuisine.

3. Culinary categories are more meaningful in lay society.

When it comes to classification, the lay person is more likely to identify with the culinary category than the botanical category. Generally, it takes five years of study to become a botanist (http://wiki.answers.com...), and given the specialty of the field, it is certain that a majority people do not have five years of plant study under their belt. Therefore, when classification of fruits and vegetables is required, the majority of people will favor culinary criteria over botanical criteria.

Again, let's examine the tomato. When asked to classify it, most people will call it a vegetable, because this is how it is used in the kitchen. Since a majority of people understand the meaning of vegetable from a culinary perspective, they would not be wrong. Indeed, the term tomato immediately conjures images of salsa, spaghetti sauce, or ketchup. They do not think of cake, cobbler, or mousse. When a parent sees tomatoes remaining on their child's plate they scold, "Eat your vegetables, mister."

So, when classifying any food, it is best to rely foremost on culinary categories as it is far more meaningful in everyday society. Botanical categories have their place, but it's not in the kitchen.

4. The avocado is a vegetable.

Since avocado's are a culinary vegetable and since culinary categories are more meaningful in everyday life, the avocado is a vegetable. The only reason to insist on it being a fruit--beyond botany--is to intellectually bully your fellow man. Isn't it about time this holy war be put to an end?
Debate Round No. 1
shneezers

Pro

First off i would tell my opponent that the meaning of life is to continue human life. SO you may cut his opening, onto all his contentions. If we look at the resolution it says an avocado is a fruit, yet it doesn't specify in what sense, so we must look at it as what the general society thinks of it. Our general society believes that anything with a seed is a fruit, an avocado is a fruit therefore because it has a seed. Now we can use it as a vegetable just like the tomato but to the general society it is a fruit. We can also use definitions according to dictionary.com an avocado is - Also called alligator pear. a large, usually pear-shaped fruit having green to blackish skin, a single large seed, and soft, light-green pulp, borne by the tropical American tree Persea americana and its variety P. adrymifolia, often eaten raw, esp. in salads. Now we look at fruit from merriam webster online dictionary-- the usually edible reproductive body of a seed plant.

The biggest thing i am trying to say is that the debate isnt about any specific area but in general

Onto my case

he hasn't touched it therefore my contention flows thru
KRFournier

Con

Thanks again to my opponent for continuing this dialog despite the fact that one commenter considers it to be spam. I am not engaging in semantical debate. Instead, I am arguing on the grounds that classification of objects is not unique to one area of life and that the classification techniques employed by one group of people can have more meaning than another group of people. In this sense, it is a sociological debate.

<>

My intro was meant tongue-in-cheek. Oh well.

<>

My opponent must address my argument for this statement to be taken at full value. He says general society classifies fruit in the botanical sense. I argue that general society, i.e. lay people, use culinary classification. He has not addressed my argument or substantiated his claim with data. On the other hand, I showed that there are far fewer botanists in society, but everyone eats. It is more reasonable to accept that society primarily uses culinary classification.

<>

The botanical classification of avocado is not in dispute. Consider the following botanical fruits: tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, and green beans. They are all "developed from the ovary in the base of the flower, and contain the seeds of the plant." (http://www.fitsugar.com...). Yet general society overwhelmingly considers all of these to be vegetables. Botanists might cringe at such blasphemy, but they make up a small percentage of society. Imagine a botanist telling a child, whose zucchini has not been touched, to eat his fruit or there will be no dessert! My opponent even opened the debate by stating that this "is a heated discussion between [him] and [his] friends." This supports my argument that lay society relies on the culinary classification of the avocado.

<>

I too am arguing in general. In general, people use culinary classifications rather than botanic classifications. In general, people use avocados as vegetables. In general, the avocado--like the tomato, cucumber, etc.--is a vegetable. My opponent must show why botanical language should override culinary language in everyday life.

<>

Actually, I offered a complete four-point rebuttal that was merely dismissed instead of countered. Ergo, my arguments may be extended.
Debate Round No. 2
shneezers

Pro

Ok my opponent says that the culinary point of view is the general view on an avocado, he says . Well let me show you. First if we look throughout his case at the places where he got his definitions then we must see that these sites must have taken a while o find. I did my own search on if an avocado is a vegetable in a culinary sense, it took me along time to find those exact sites. Now to a person who is just sitting at home looking for a definition of avocado he will probably go to dictionary.com or search it on google. DICTIONARY.COM IS A SITE USED BY PEOPLE, we must look to my definition because that is what a general person will look at. He may also go to a dictionary, well i will give 2 more online sources of the most used dictionarys in the world - webster's dictionary & american heritage.

Avocado- a pulpy green- to purple-skinned nutty-flavored fruit of any of various tropical American trees (genus Persea especially P. americana) of the laurel family. (http://www.merriam-webster.com...)

Avocado-A tropical American tree (Persea americana) having oval or pear-shaped fruit with leathery skin, yellowish-green flesh, and a large seed. b. The edible fruit of this tree.(American heritage dictionary online http://www.bartleby.com...)

Now I have fulfilled his request of me having to say why the botanical reference is better than the culinary one. It should be used because the person on the street who looks for defintions of these will go to these sites and if they search avocado these are the defintions they will see and accept.

I thank my opponent for debating me on this topic and i would like to put a link up that is a bit off topic but funny.

Thank you please vote for me
KRFournier

Con

Once again, I thank my opponent for instigating the topic. It's been a privilege to explore deeply an issue that, on the surface, seems straight forward. I hope I've shown that this issue, like so many others, is not black and white.

<>

I assume my opponent means to bring this up in support of his claim that my sources are less accessible to common researchers. However, the difficulty he had finding my sources (a) has no bearing on the veracity of the data contained therein and (b) does not show that all people would have the same trouble.

<>

My opponent has assumed that regular people will go online to research the proper definition of an avocado. He does not back this claim. I submit that people classify items based on similarities to other classifications. The first time someone encounters avocado, they are likely to classify it according to what they already understand fruits and vegetables to be. If the encounter is that of a savory recipe, they would not be remiss in classifying it a vegetable. If they encounter it hanging from a tree, they would not be remiss in classifying it as a fruit. The point is, there is no axiom that states, "people turn to dictionary.com for answers to everyday classifications."

My opponent then attempts to strengthen his argument by listing two online dictionary definitions. So, I'll offer a couple definitions from the same websites:

Cucumber - the fruit of a vine (Cucumis sativus) of the gourd family cultivated as a GARDEN VEGETABLE. (http://www.merriam-webster.com...) [emphasis added]

Squash - 1. Any of various tendril-bearing plants of the genus Cucurbita, having fleshy edible fruit with a leathery rind and unisexual flowers. 2. The fruit of any of these plants, EATEN AS A VEGETABLE. (http://www.bartleby.com...) [emphasis added]

Both definitions recognize these items both as botanical fruits and culinary vegetables. What is an online researcher to do when they encounter these definitions, when both classification are offered in the same sentence? In essence, my opponent argues that avocados are fruits because the dictionary says so. Well, the dictionary also says that tomatoes are fruit (http://www.merriam-webster.com...), but that doesn't stop society from accepting it as a garden vegetable. Relying on the dictionary does not save the day. The dictionary simply regurgitates the botanical classifications. This is not sufficient evidence for botanical classifications having more meaning in lay society.

Note that my opponent did not contest my culinary classification of avocado. Instead, he insists that the botanical classification supersedes it. Therefore, for him to be consistent within this line of reasoning, he must insist that cucumbers, bell peppers, jalapenos, zucchini, green beans, pumpkins, and all other botanical fruits be recognized as such. I submit, however, that such logic reduces to absurdity. Society has unilaterally accepted all these foods as vegetables.

Today I shopped at Safeway, and the avocados where book ended by onions on the left and potatoes on the right--right in the middle of the vegetable aisle. If people classify by association, then it is hardly surprising that so many people think of the avocado as a vegetable.

I showed how the avocado is a culinary vegetable, a classification that comes naturally given its use in the kitchen and its more savory flavor. I showed how the culinary classification is superior to the botanical one. I showed how culinary classification is more meaningful and common.

Therefore, avocados--like tomatoes and zucchini--are vegetables.

P.S. The cat video was pretty funny.
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by aurora1616 8 years ago
aurora1616
shnneezers, i simply meant to say that your arguments were a bit.... arbitrary
Posted by shneezers 8 years ago
shneezers
vote for me or my opponent not make fun of me or my opponent AURORA ALYCE
Posted by aurora1616 8 years ago
aurora1616
lol shneezers... hahahhahaa
Posted by gonovice 8 years ago
gonovice
It actually is a fruit. It's one of the fruits that's put into the vegetable section at the grocery store. I find it weird that it's a fruit since it looks like a vegetable and is savory like a vegetable.
Posted by jjmd280 8 years ago
jjmd280
And if the statement read the meaning of human life is to continue human life - just try saying that to my 78 yo spinster aunt whom learned how to fly a plane last year. Indeed.
Posted by jjmd280 8 years ago
jjmd280
shneezers - First off i would tell my opponent that the meaning of life is to continue human life.

There is a Mr Rolo on line 1 who'd love to chat with you....
Posted by jjmd280 8 years ago
jjmd280
spam. reported it as such.

there is no debate in this, just fact vs. not agreeing with fact.

Obviously, one can debate anything. And I like how KRFournier approached this. Keep your spamalicious comments to yourself. Who are you to decide what constitutes a debate?
Posted by burningpuppies101 8 years ago
burningpuppies101
spam. reported it as such.

there is no debate in this, just fact vs. not agreeing with fact.
Posted by crackofdawn 8 years ago
crackofdawn
If you're talking to me I won't because I agree with you.
Posted by shneezers 8 years ago
shneezers
if you want to argue me then debate me
and its aint from wikipedia it was changed
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