The Instigator
Pro (for)
0 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
4 Points

An omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient god, and free will can't coincide.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/11/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 901 times Debate No: 61566
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (1)




If God is all powerful, and all knowing then he can never be faced with a dilemma. With his foreknowledge he can never be faced with a surprise. Everything that happens could only happen with his approval. This implies that you could never do anything against God's will because if it is against his will, and he know what the act you did was he could stop it. If he did not stop it it can only be because he wanted it to happen because God can't be faced with a situation in which he is either against an action but can't stop it or succumb to limitations as he is supposed to be all powerful.


I would like to completely support the opposing position of this debate:

God can give you free will,
Debate Round No. 1


Present your antithesis


As I am sure you are aware, I have been using the opposite thesis to support my other arguments: Free will cannot co-exist with a none creator existence, because math would thereby determine all things from a founding level.

As Such, an Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient god whoever can.

for example, :"I live next to a little girl. Every day she goes outside to play. She plays in the backyard alone for hours. Some days I see her other days I do not. Btu one thing I do know, whether she goes out to play or not, so long as I do not talk to her, I have in no way effected her free will to go out and play in her back yard."

God, who knows the potential out comes of all things, does not make those things happen.

when indicating God is the mover of all things, as in Hinduism the Creator is refereed to as the Controller, He is as a hoist. The hoist does not do the moving on it's own, it is directed, and unbiasedly effective for all who use it's functions according to their purposes.

Knowing the future will occur exactly how it will does not make that individual responsible for it's outcomes.
Take for instance the account of the Jews, because if we refer to God we can make reference to his character. -
The Israelites left Egypt, 1 000 000 strong. That entire generation did not make it to the promised land, because although God told them what to do, and supplied them readily with food and a substantial law to prevent a social collapse, the complained and denied him throughout the duration of the 40 years. Had God spoken tot he people inhabiting the Promised land at that time, assuredly they would have denied him his wisdom and rebelled against his covenant.
- So assuredly, When God chooses to do something, he does so with consideration of the end result. Offering a better path, while burying the lesser, and always providing a brighter future.
In the event his actions were to be a negative effect on the prolonged actions of the world, assuredly he should remain silent.

When a man is going to Rob you. He has a proposition, he can either do it or not. And although God knows what he will do, he also knows that he provided all the judgments to make the right decision. Meaning the guilt is not upon God. It is always clear that with all the negative things int he world, we are still well suited to be a positive thing. and our judgment will be according.

The Approval of God, is only in that we make our own decisions,
that we can make the decision to glorify him, and take refuge in him, and rejoice in him,
and not be like the drones that are captive to their desires to glorify ignorance, and take refuge in adultery, and rejoice in injustice,
and this way, God remains in himself the perfect entity which we can call on for strength and wisdom when we are low.
As God is our enabler, he provides all ends, that we can choose readily, and in all decisions Glorify him by proving the righteous decisions are utmost pleasing, and the unrighteous decisions are always impairing.

Although God is all-powerful, God does have a limitation. God's first and last limitation is that he must always be pleasing to himself. God has provided abundantly a moral law which leads to prosperity. All his actions serve the greater good and not the lesser.
God is not required to stop everything in order to prove he did not want it to occur. His expression is one of repenting from evil thoughts and prospering through communion. If there are those who freely ignore this in solitude, or rebel against this in groups demonstrating through the poor fruits of the labour God's will is clearly perfect: God, for his actions are abundant in the provision of wisdom.

Free will is not impaired by God knowing what will occur,
I can or do not have to do, anything I do.
Debate Round No. 2


Sage13 forfeited this round.


Because God is the most high, and his judgments are to not be contradicted, but instead acknowledged,
in the state of mind that, If God is the God we are talking about, his judgments are the manifestation of wisdom itself.

-God can give freewill to anyone, even if logically it is bewildering.

-knowing the outcome does not manifest the result.

-God can not want something but allow it to happen. Like watching a child stuff his face with cake before eating his dinner.

-Freewill without a Creator means math is the usurper of all decisions, leaving no decisions available.

I love doing this.
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GoOrDin 3 years ago
who voted? he didn't say anything since round one, and I clearly proved that neither knowledge of the future not capacity to change the future actually are governing factors in that future taking place.
wtf... who the F*** voted here?
Posted by GoOrDin 3 years ago
again i am truly sorry for how difficult that argument may have been to read. I'll be more clear next time, but to be fair, I read it over and it is legible and accurate. a few spelling errors though.. hopefully not in the worst palces..
Posted by GoOrDin 3 years ago
Next argument I will format it much clearer. I do apologize about that.
But God does not approve of our actions** - It is more glorifying to his person to allow us our freewill having proven not only through his wisdom that wisdom is good, but also proving through example that wickedness is a negative thing.

If you acknowledge the wisdom of God, you will find it in no way unglorifying that he is waiting.
Because by acknowledging it is the right thing to do, you come to understand God, and sympathies with him.
For regardless of who Gods character is, he is exactly who has always been and Is. The expectation, is to not expect anything different from him, but to acknowledge the wisdom we received of him.
Posted by GoOrDin 3 years ago
that argument was hard to read: Recap:

knowledge of the end is not the cause.

God has provided the knowledge to make the right decisions.

God is not required to stop what he said is bad. and what the world has proven is bad.

I can or do not have to do anything I do.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
Adam was equipped to handle the problem he fell under. God gave him dominion over every creeping thing.I have children I gave them the advice needed to succeed. All of them went off track occasionally. But they all had enough teaching to come back to solid ground.Adams first mistake was he let his wife handle the spiritual problem Like most men today. When God walked in that place, he did not know where Adam was. He sensed the separation. It was deep and deadly.That is why he called out to Adam. Them Adam did what all of have done one time or another, the blame game. " God the woman YOU gave me caused me to sin".He blamed God and Eve.People are like that today. " God, why did you let this happen to me".And most people do not give God the time of day till something bad happens.It was not God that lets things happen. It is us. We have been given dominion over all things. God says that even people called by his name perish for a lack of knowledge.

God did not sin, Adam did. But he took the punishment for sin on himself and gave man another chance. But this is the last one we will ever get. Once that body dies and you leave here , if you have not accepted him , he will not accept you.
Posted by Sage13 3 years ago
I meant to say I lost you when you started talking about Adam and Eve
Posted by Sage13 3 years ago
Cheyennebodie you have a lot of interesting things to say. However I lost when you said Adam and eve. As for your comment about about judgement it is very puzzling. God knew that Adam would fall in to temptation and eat the fruit. However during the creation process he failed to equip Adam with the strength to overpower the temptation thusfore not having potential to sin. Is god a lowsy creator, or did he want Adam to est the fruit. He could have surrounded the tree with firely cherubim before Adam ate the tree instead of after, or just not create the tree at all eradicating any potential to must have been in God's will for it to happen. like Revelations says "slain before the the foundations of the world. It's all part of his will according to the bible. Everything is.
Posted by Sage13 3 years ago
Lol. 13 is not my age however it is an intriguing number. My name is Elijah, and I'm 17. If you were to turn 13 upside down, it looks similary like the first to letters of my name.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
Sage13. that 13 is that your age. You do sound a bit young. That is about the age I was when we said, " can God make a rock he cannot lift." Of course as I matured I put away childish things.

And as I got to know God through Jesus. he does not lift mountains, he speaks to them and tells them to move.Mark 11:23, if you are interested.
Posted by cheyennebodie 3 years ago
That is just not so.God knows only one thing. We will reap what we sow.That is how he can foreknow what will happen. He puts all the seeds sown together and knows exactly what the crop will be.He knew that Adam had the potential to sin, and had a plan for redemption if he did. But it was never in his plan for Adam to fall.Adam did that all on his own. When God came into the garden of Eden, He said, " Adam, where are you." He did not know where he was, because for the first time there was a separation from God. At the final judgment God will say, " depart from me, for I never knew you." There will not be that connection in the spirit that happens when a man makes Jesus Lord of His life.God only knows those who are his. Everybody else belongs to another spirit being.He has no claim on them. Satan does. Adam gave satan that dominion. And the only way to break that connection is to make a higher covenant with God, the spirit of life in Jesus , the messiah.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 3 years ago
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture