The Instigator
A341
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The Contender
Heraclitus
Con (against)
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Anarchist Political Philosophies Are Left Wing

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/21/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 506 times Debate No: 70465
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
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A341

Pro

Either my opponent can post in the first round and forfeit the last or accept the debate in the first round and I will post my argument first.
Heraclitus

Con

Challenge accepted. Your move.
Debate Round No. 1
A341

Pro

Ok I should start with saying that I am an anarchist of the anarcho-communist/anarcho-syndicalist type.

What is now the anarchist movement separated from the wider Marxist movement in the mid and late 19th century. While traditional Marxists advocated the eventual destruction of the state after a period of a workers state (dictatorship of the proletariat) early anarchist thinkers like Mikhail Bakunin (effectively the founder of anarchism) and Pyotr Kropotkin (the founder of anarcho-communism) advocated for a direct stateless transition to a stateless communist utopia of the sort Marx had envisioned.

Now there are a few central misconceptions of what anarchism actually is which I also have to shoot down here. Anarchism does not advocate for the abolition of law (though most of us including myself have very libertarian attitudes) nor is anarchism simply the abolition of the state. Anarchists tend to describe anarchism as a mental process. That being a mental process of challenging authority to prove it's legitimacy. If an authority cannot prove it's legitimacy it should be destroyed and replaced with voluntary horizontal organisation, this is called anarchist analysis. Essentially anarchists do not oppose laws we oppose unjustified authority which we see applies to both the state and to authority given by capitalism.

Anarchism in it's modern form has always been communist in that we want a community which is run through direct, consensus democracy for the community as a whole and the the workers work for the benefit of the community as a whole.

Post script: Now there is the issue of an-caps, an-caps call themselves anarchists but are not regarded as anarchists because they do not use an anarchist method of analysis.
Heraclitus

Con

Anarchism comes from the Classical Greek Archos which means Ruler or chief and the prefix an which makes it negative hence meaning No Ruler. A world without governments.
Left wing philosophies are political beliefs wher the government (which is a form of ruler) needs to be large in order to regulate the economy and increase tax to prevent economic competition which results in individuals earning large sums of money and giving money money stolen from richer people to the poorer people in the form of taxes in order to prevent inequality.
These two philosophies contradict each other and therefore it is illogical to suggest Anarchism is Left Wing.
Pure Anarchism anyway. Anarcho-Syndicalism and Anarcho-Capitalism are slightly different and can be viewed respectively as left wing and right wing. However if Anarcho-Syndicalism prevents inequality which would naturally occur in an Anarchist country, it must provide some force that is some sort of ruling body to prevent it. This ruling body is a 'Worker's State' which is still a state and therefore a ruler over individuals who refuse to co-operate with this collective mass hence Anarcho-Syndicalism is not proper Anarchism.
Anarchism in its pure form is an extreme individualist society in which there is no ruler or governing body to interfere with the lives of individuals. There is total freedom and therefore inequality in success and wealth is inevitable. Everyone has equal rights but equal rights are not specifically left wing beliefs as the equality defended by left wingers is economic equality where no one is too rich or too poor.
Also the belief of Anarchism has been around long before 'Anarchist' Mikhail Bakunin. There have been individuals wanting a stateless society for centuries.
Lastly Communism is a form of totalitarianism where there is complete state ownership in direct contrast to the principles of Anarchism.
Debate Round No. 2
A341

Pro

A341 forfeited this round.
Heraclitus

Con

I would like to start by returning to your first argument.
Your definition of Anarchism is wrong. You said that it is not necessarily the 'abolition of the state'. However that is exactly what it is. According to the oxford dictionary it is 'belief in the ABOLITION OF ALL GOVERNMENT and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.'
Your 'anarchist analysis' is merely a method. It is by no means a definition. Thus your post script about Anarcho-Capitalism not being Anarchist is wrong and in fact more Anarchist than Anarcho-Syndicalism which as I explained in the last round isn't Anarchist but merely a left wing libertarian idea but no more than libertarianism (Anarchism is the extreme of Libertarianism). Anarcho-Capitalism is Anarchism because it does support the abolition of the state and total freedom to succeed.
You also stated that Anarcho-Syndicalism has no worker's state. Well again you are wrong because it does. Although it claims it doesn't according to its definition and the definition of state or government it does. First of all we need to understand what a government is. A Government is according to the oxford dictionary, 'a group of people with the authority to govern a country or state'. Anarcho-Syndicalism is derived from the syndicalist movement which 'seeks to unite workers to fight for their interests' and Anarcho-Syndicalism add revolution to that in the form of united militant workers who act as a government in a way that they compel non co operative individuals to their will and are a 'group of people with the authority to govern a country or state' using , I might add, force which the dictionary definition of Anarchism seems to be against if you look back.
Anarcho-Syndicalism is not Anarchism and it may be a blow to one such as you but you need to accept the truth. It is slightly libertarian but definitely as I have just proven not Anarchist.
Debate Round No. 3
A341

Pro

A341 forfeited this round.
Heraclitus

Con

Heraclitus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
A341

Pro

A341 forfeited this round.
Heraclitus

Con

Heraclitus forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Heraclitus 2 years ago
Heraclitus
I don't know how autocorrect turned I would into Newfound but I was supposed to say I would like to point out... Not newfound. Damn autocorrect.
Posted by Heraclitus 2 years ago
Heraclitus
Newfound like to point out that I am not opposed to Anarchism. I am a conservative slash libertarian but am also a sympathiser of Anarcho-Capitalism. I am strongly opposed to Communism and Socialism however.
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