The Instigator
Yarely
Pro (for)
Winning
24 Points
The Contender
StrkeScale
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Anarchy is the true means of liberty

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
Yarely
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/23/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,015 times Debate No: 27448
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (7)

 

Yarely

Pro

I believe that only through anarchy will people be free. I believe that only through the abolition of the state and the abolition of capitalism will the people have true liberty and be free from oppression.
This is an experimental debate as I have just began informing myself about anarchism and I will see how it goes from there.

My opponent will oppose the abolition of the state and/or the abolition of capitalism as the means of liberty to the people.

Let's see how this goes
http://www.google.com...
StrkeScale

Con

I accept.

What is your definition of 'true' liberty?
What do you consider oppresion?
Debate Round No. 1
Yarely

Pro

To elaborate, I believe that true liberty is freedom from authoritarian rule and freedom from oppressive power.

Which means that government limits freedom as well as Capitalism and/or hierarchy.

Merriam Webster defines freedom as- liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another. Let's elaborate this:

The government obviously restricts our freedoms. Everyone knows that. One might argue that it is neccessary to restrict some of our freedoms for order and that is why laws are created.

But why are crimes committed? Many common crimes such as theft, rape, homicide are byproducts of the current system. Then the current system creates laws and punishments for those crimes not realizing that it is that very system that is causing these crimes.

Why do people steal? People steal because they need food, they need clothes, they need supplies. How come they don't have these basic things? It is because they are poor. And why are they poor? Because in order for Capitalism to work, there needs to be people on the top and people on the bottom of the pyramid. The people on the top restrict the freedom of the people feeding from the bottom by taking most the power.

They have the "freedom" to take away the freedom of others but is that is not true freedom. It is just abuse of power which bounds freedom down.

Why do people rape? It is said that people rape for the fact that the society has sexual discriminatory restrictions and/or oppressive standards. This wouldn't happen in an anarchy as anarchy embraces all sexual orientations and gender roles. This wouldn't cause the problem of rape.

Why do people kill? Many reasons. They feel wronged, or they kill to steal, or they kill in order to not get caught for rape, or kill in order to gain fear etc. If people cooperated in a equal society and had none of these oppressive things happening, there wouldn't need to be a reason to commit these crimes.

The nature of the government is naturally oppressive. The fact that the government controls most things that we do in a daily basis is oppressive and controlling. Any of our rights are not 100 % there all the time as the government can take away your rights any time they want. Voting doesn't make much of a difference as the government has a two-party system (making almost no room for third parties) and the electoral college ultimately decides who is president. Neither Democratic nor Republican democracies make much of a difference as the government obviously doesn't want to give the people too much freedom or control over the way the country is run. As Emma Goldman once said "If voting changed anything, they would make it illegal."

So the government restricts the peoples' voices and capitalism as well.

Hierarchy is connected to Capitalism so they are interrelated. All of the above crimes are caused by Capitalism itself which indeed is oppressive. The Government is a tool used to oppress the people and gain power which is extremely oppressive as well.

Capitalism creates this pyramid of classes where once again the ones on top feed from the ones on the bottom. Laborers get 1/10 of profits while the employers gain 9/10's of what the laborers worked for. This is not right.

Capitalism allows people to restrict the freedom of others and get away with it completely.




"In the capitalist system the whole working class sells its labor power to the employing class. The workers build factories, make machinery and tools, and produce goods. The employers keep the factories, the machinery, tools and goods for themselves as their profit. The workers get only wages.

This arrangement is called the wage system.

Learned men have figured out that the worker receives as his wage only about one-tenthof what he produces. The other nine-tenths are divided among the landlord, the manufacturer, the railroad company, the wholesaler, the jobber, and other middlemen.

It means this:

Though the workers, as a class, have built the factories, a slice of their daily labor is taken from them for the privilege of using those factories.That's the landlord's profit

What is left then - one-tenth of the real worth of the worker's labor-is hisshare, his wage.

Can you guess now why the wise Proudhon said that the possessions of the rich are stolen property? Stolen from the producer, the worker.

The whole capitalist system rests on such robbery.

The whole system of law and government upholds and justifies this robbery.

That's the order of things called capitalism, and law and government are there to protect this order of things.

Do you wonder that the capitalist and employer, and all those who profit by this order of things, are strong for 'law and order'?

But where do you come in? What benefit have you from that kind of 'law and order'? Don't you see that this 'law and order' only robs you, fools you, and just enslaves you?

'Enslave me?' you wonder. 'Why, I am a free citizen!'

Are you free, really? Free to do what? To live as you please? To do what you please?

Let's see. How do you live? What does your freedom amount to?

You depend on your employer for your wages or your salary, don't you? And your wages determine your way of living, don't they? The conditions of your life, even what you eat and drink, where you go and with whom you associate, - all of it depends on your wages.

No, you are not a free man. You are dependent on your employer and on your wages. You are really a wage slave."
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu...;

Without Capitalism and without government, the people are truly free.

StrkeScale

Con

StrkeScale forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
StrkeScale

Con

StrkeScale forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
StrkeScale

Con

StrkeScale forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Cometflash 4 years ago
Cometflash
Sure, send me a challenge.

I honestly did not read what you wrote on your argument, so I'll go in as blind as always.
Posted by Yarely 4 years ago
Yarely
Cometflash..do you wanna debate this with me since StrkeScale forfeited?
Posted by Cometflash 4 years ago
Cometflash
I wanted to take this debate when was just 11 minutes in.

But I have my hands full in the moment, and have yet to accept one debate. I'm afraid of not having enough time to give a proper debate, so I'm making my opponent wait. I hope he understand it.

Anyways, I'm replying so I can find this debate easily later.

Good luck to you too!
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by drafterman 4 years ago
drafterman
YarelyStrkeScaleTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit
Vote Placed by Muted 4 years ago
Muted
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by emospongebob527 4 years ago
emospongebob527
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Reasons for voting decision: Counter Chicken.
Vote Placed by Citrakayah 4 years ago
Citrakayah
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Reasons for voting decision: FF.
Vote Placed by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Chicken 4 years ago
Chicken
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Reasons for voting decision: kfc
Vote Placed by ax123man 4 years ago
ax123man
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Reasons for voting decision: ff