Anime music is a bad joke
Debate Rounds (5)
If we were to compare anime music from other styles of music (classical, jazz, rock, pop, etc...), I would say that in the end we would get into some general consensus regarding of the characteristics of anime music. I will list 3 which I consider the most important ones and my argument will form from that.
1: Anime music is repetitive.
That is pretty consensual for anime music and it could be ok, but since the musical structure of anime music is overly simple, you will always end up noticing in it is repetitive (in a bad way), which is the problem.
2: Anime music has a strict timing.
Pretty consensual as well and could be could be ok as well, but there's no rhythmic deepness to prevent it from sounding robotic. There are many jazz/rock musics which follow the metronome strictly and doesn't sound robotic, mostly because of the battery guy there providing and twisting the rhythm in many different ways. So once again, it all comes to how the resource is used, and anime music fails again.
3: Anime Music music tries to be/is very sentimental.
I will address it's consensuality shortly. Even though my previous points should refute that one already (sorry, but very sentimental music is much more linked to improvisation and spontaneity than it is to strict tempo rules and repetitiveness), I still call attention to the fact that it is very fallacious to try to make a very sentimental music when the rhythm and musical texture go to the opposite way. And of course, the harmonic language is far from rich to provide especial feelings. Also I want to make clear that I am taking that anime music tries to be very sentimental due to the fact that way too often it has a very evident and expressive melody, which is a rather clear indication that whoever composed it was wanting to directly touch hearts with the music, so that is why I put it as consensual as well.
I base my position in these 3 points and I consider them to sufficiently prove that anime music is a bad joke. Since the character limit I put is rather low (and I regret that now), Con can address my points on different rounds if he wants. The debate has 5 rounds so there's still some space in it.
I now understand your definition, now it is starting to look like this is just an opinion. However I will treat it as a debate and will respond debate style.
You make the claim that Anime music in general (no examples given) is repetitive. Not only can this be consensual to anime music this is consensual to all music. Every genre of music will contain some form of repetition. From songs like "Amazing Grace" to "Smoke on the Water". https://en.wikipedia.org...(music)
"Anime music has strict timing." This is certainly your own opinion as you then say it "sounds robotic" because there is no deep tones or low drums. To figure out why anime sounds robotic you must figure out the meaning of the word anime. Anime is Japanese for "animation".
Animation: the manipulation of electronic images by means of a computer in order to create moving images. https://www.google.ca...
So if anime is made to accompany manipulated moving objects it makes sense that the music would sound robotic.
You than claim anime music is very sentimental. Again your own opinion. One person may find raising puppies to be sentimental and another would find it as too much work and not worth the time. What you are saying now cannot be applied to all anime music. IT doesn't matter how you feel when listening to them because everybody may feel differently. You claim that they seem to want to touch all of our hearts. Let's define music shall we?
Music: vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.
That last part in the definition "Expression of emotion" That seems to explain why the song would make us react. Why any song would cause a reaction.
OK I have yet too see some solid reasons why everybody should come to realize why anime music is a bad joke.
I believe there are some that might be bad however all music genres have disastrous songs.
However since you had your opinions I say mine. I like anime music because it is inspiring, meaningful, and well put together.
I have argued pro's contentions and I look forward to more.
The fact that Con says that anime music is repetitive just like any other music is can be regarded as rather misconceptive on the argument, because I said that the starting point for my argumentation was to compare anime music to other styles of music and see the main points that distinguishes them. To illustrate better, I will mention the fact that very often people say that the music of Philip Glass is repetitive. The basis for saying that his music is repetitive doesn't come from the fact that they are listening to music for the first time, but because they subconsciously compared his music with others and came to that verdict. Though I do have to admit that it would have been more correct to use the term "way more repetitive", that's still a rather trivial point to dig at in this discussion. If I said Anime is repetitive it's because it's musical structure is far from one which contains good development and contrasting sections, such as nocturnes or sonatinas (just to present some structures that are relatively short).
Furthermore, con claims that anime music sounds robotic because it is supposed to be like it (by the definition on the dictionary), but the fact is that this isn't relevant either, because the point of my argumentation is to judge anime music by solely comparing it to other styles of music. This is a discussion of music itself. The problems I proposed for the roboticness in anime music was that it doesn't allow plenty of room to rhythmic deepness just as if feels out of place due to the "sentimentality", which I will address next.
My claim that anime music is linked with either trying to be sentimental or being sentimental is far from being an opinion due to the fact that it's characteristic of having a pretty expressive melody is directly linked to the romantic period of music, which returned the music to the hands of the general public of the period by doing that, much opposed to the music of the classical period, which was more contrived and had more economy of resources, which was, in a way, music for "smart" people at then. The problem of anime music trying to follow the path of the romantic period is that the anime musical form is just too restrictive to get into the quality that many romantic musics got by having freer time and more spontaneity.
Also, the definition that con gave on music is highly questionable when you start to look at classical music of the 20th century, but even if we take it, con is doing again what I addressed in the first paragraph, which is to say that anime music is as sentimental as any other music is. That's far from the point again, as the starting point of my argumentation is by comparing anime directly to other styles.
1. Pro is saying anime music is bad in comparison to other music. This is like saying techno or rock music is bad in comparison to country music, or Mozart is bad in comparison to Drake. You cannot compare different genres. Reasons that should be obvious are the purpose of different kinds of genres.
Country Music: a form of popular music originating in the rural southern US. It is traditionally a mixture of ballads and dance tunes played characteristically on fiddle, guitar, steel guitar, drums, and keyboard.
Rock Music: a form of popular music that evolved from rock and roll and pop music during the mid- and late 1960s. Harsher and often self-consciously more serious than its predecessors, it was initially characterized by musical experimentation and drug-related or anti-Establishment lyrics.
a form of popular music that evolved from rock and roll and pop music during the mid- and late 1960s. Harsher and often self-consciously more serious than its predecessors, it was initially characterized by musical experimentation and drug-related or anti-Establishment lyrics.
Pop music: serious or conventional music following long-established principles rather than a folk, jazz, or popular tradition.
(more specifically) music written in the European tradition during a period lasting approximately from 1750 to 1830, when forms such as the symphony, concerto, and sonata were standardized.
We already stated that anime music is used to accompany anime or computer animated characters.
2. "It's musical structure is far from one that contains good development and contrasting sections..." You say this and yet no example is given. Even if an example was given, there are many more that show that what you are saying is not true. Such as the ones that I supplied in the last round. You are saying as a whole that anime music is bad, which is an opinion and no-one can deny this.
3. "con claims that anime music sounds robotic because it's supposed to be...this isn't relevant either...judge music by comparing it to other styles of music." As I have stated you cannot compare one type of music to another or it is an opinion. Classical music is not better or worse than Rock music it is just a different genre. The same as anime music isn't better or worse than rock music it is just a different genre.
Genre: a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.
4. "It's (anime music) Characteristic of having a pretty expressive melody." After you made this statement you go on to state your opinion that music should have stayed private and so on. Again comparing it to a different genre and a different time does not work for the reason that not one song is the same as another. There are different forms, styles and subject matter. These are called genres. Saying that one genre is better than another is an opinion. They are different but one is not better or worse than another. They are all music.
5. Pro says my definition is not fitting to all music. The definition I gave fits all music. I have yet to see you actually put a definition in or a source.
Pro has yet to base a solid platform why anime music should be considered a bad joke. I await is next argument with arms open.
Con also said that I didn't give examples of why anime musics has a musical structure that is far from one that "contains good development and contrasting sections", yet I listed on the previous round that nocturnes and sonatinas are examples of musical structures with good development and contrasting sections. If it's necessary, listen to Chopin nocturne op 9 n 2, Beethoven sonatina in G, compare it to any anime music and see the difference between these textures.
Then, Con reinforced that I cannot prove that all anime musics are bad no matter what, yet what I am doing here is challenging the form which anime music is written, which pretty much englobes all anime music. Con's point could have been pertinent if I was trying to prove my point by picking off anime musics one by one, but that's not the case here.
Con then says that it's useless for me to compare anime music to the romantic period because they are different genres, but I already pointed out that it's not case, as you can print musical sheets of both and analyse them naturally. And also, con is making a mistake when he is saying that I said that music should have remained private, because all I did in that matter was to state that musical was private in the classical period and that the romantic period changed that. I didn't say anywhere that music should have remained private and I even put quotation marks on the word "smart" when I said that music on the classical period was only for the "smart" (see?). Anyways, what all this history leads to is the fact that the romantic music worked pretty well for the musical illiterate of the time, so it's rather useless to think that anime music, with way more limited resources, is like that to be easy to understand for the musical illiterate.
"Pro says my definition is not fitting to all music. The definition I gave fits all music", that's not the case as con's definition says that music is supposed to produce beauty of form, harmony and express emotions, while many modern classical musics were made to sound ugly.
I don"t know where my opponent is going with this but he claims that you can judge music to be a bad joke or not based on rhythm and harmony"s etc. This is obvious because anybody can do this with opinions. However what are you going to judge it based on? What makes one harmony better than the other? Or as I have been saying what makes one genre better than another? An opinion and this is what my opponent"s arguments are based on. You seem to be saying "since anime music sounds nothing like Mozart or Beethoven it should not be considered music and instead a bad joke". As I have been saying and as the definitions show there are quite noticeable differences in both the style rhythm and form of all genres of music including anime. This creates variety and gives people with preference the right music that they want to listen to. BASED ON OPINION.
OK there the truth comes and in the second paragraph you clearly see what my opponent is saying is "Good music". This being sonatas and nocturnes. This shows what my opponent prefers and shows that it is his own opinion what is good and what is bad. I claim that all music is good and serves a purpose while my opponent says all other music is ok, but classical music is the best and anime music is a bad joke.
Well you really need to address why anime music is a bad joke besides your own opinions and with fact based research. The burden of proof lies on you so all I have to do to win is rebut your claims successfully. You"re challenging anime music because you dislike it. However if it really was a bad joke this debate wouldn"t be happening and everyone would realize what you said is true. Anime music is just another genre. Filled with good songs and bad songs. However in my opinion I believe all music serves a purpose and all music has a good side. Anime music is not a bad joke.
I have been studying music for 10 years now. I compete in singing in the Fine Arts Festivals and have won awards every year including provincial recommendation and in one provincial I earned a national recommendation. I am also fluently trained in violin (won awards for fiddle), baritone and I play banjo and guitar and some piano. I know my music. I also know that music comes in all forms and styles. I know when music is not music I also know that music is a way of life for those that do preform. Anime is not a bad joke or else it would not be considered music at all. However it is and it is only an opinion to state why one genre of music is worse than another.
I would like to hear a specific song and specific reason why you would find a song or songs ugly.
My opponent"s opinion is still all I see. There are no sources, no specific songs and no definitions. All I see is a group of arguments based on an opinion and I see not one fact based arguments. I wish to see more in the next round.
Con is asking questions like what makes one music aspect better than another, but the fact is that if we have at one hand one aspect which is obvious and unpromising for artistic creation and at the other we have one that provides interest and different territories, then there's no other way to go than to simply consider the second one to be better. Any art is about delving into different territories rather than keep doing the same thing over and over again.
Con says that if I was right everyone would know that, but that's fallacious and far from the point of a debate. Instead, I ask con, does anime music has any relevance when you look at the story of music? Or is it's just mentioned on a little part and that's all there is?
Also, con seems to find reluctance in accepting that nocturnes and sonatinas are better than the structure used for animes, but the point again is that due to the fact that nocturnes and sonatinas have more development and contrasting sections, they allow better freedom of creation, whereas anime structure is way more limited. Even though con says that each genre/structure has good songs and bad songs, he seems to forget to say that there are also good structures and bad structures.
I never wanted anime music to be like Beethoven or Mozart, as con claims. That was never the point, and if there's something I want of anime music is for it to get out of the very restrictive rules it is in. Last but not least, even though I consider myself to have won, the decision is up to the voters and I wish they choose with good reasons. And I thank con for the debate.
1. Not once did pro give any sources for anything.
2. Pros arguments were all based on his own preference which makes it an opinion.
Opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
3. Con failed to rebut my last round. Which is important since I claimed that it is an opinion that he has and he failed to rebut that this round.
So based on evidence and the fact the burden of proof should have been on pro, yet he never made a solid argument, it stands to reason who your votes should go to. The fact of the matter is "Anime music is not a bad joke" thank you for making this debate. I hope to see better ones to come. My name is Brian N. Johnson and this debate is now over.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by minddrag 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: I agree with con's final round where pro did not respond to his arguments. A debate is supposed to be based on opinion though, so I so not see the problem in that.
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