The Instigator
RequireTruth
Pro (for)
Winning
35 Points
The Contender
JTSmith
Con (against)
Losing
24 Points

Any form of music can be a form of praise and worship music. (Rap, Rock, Country, Etc.)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/19/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,917 times Debate No: 4419
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (21)
Votes (13)

 

RequireTruth

Pro

I would prefer to debate a Christian, as it is an intra-religious topic. Also I ask that you are familiar with scripture and use it alone to defend your position. First, I would like to open up the debate with scripture. Ephesians 5:19-20 says, "Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Now it is understandable that not everyone will identify with every form of music as praise and worship in a church setting, and as such, everyone will praise God in different ways. Take for example people in Africa, when they praise God, it is very rhythm driven, or take for example on the other side, Christians who are a part of the Church of Christ, they practice non-instrumental worship. Is one more right than the other? I would say no. Consider also that David, the first recorded songwriter in the bible, encouraged the use of all instruments in worship. "Praise the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary; Praise him in his mighty heavens. Praise him for his acts of power; praise him for his surpassing greatness. Praise him with the sounding trumpet, praise him with the harp and the lyre, praise him with tambourine and dancing, praise him with the strings and flute, praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals. Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord." [Psalm 150] So looking at all those instruments, maybe a ska band would be appropriate for the feel of this scripture. Not only that but lets take the band UnderOath (a Screamo Band) they have a song that I would classify as worship. "I heard a voice through the discord
Of a deluge of passersby.
I saw one gaze frozen in time
Watching me passing by.

I swear I'll know your face in the crowd,
And I'll hear your voice so loud
When you're whispering...

Hey unfaithful I will teach you
To be stronger, to be stronger.
Hey ungraceful I will teach you
To forgive one another.

Here's my kiss to betray
Desperate to brush the lips of grace.
Do you feel hollow when you think of how I've lied?

Oh sweet angel of mercy with your grace like the morning
Wrap your loving arms around me.
Oh sweet angel of mercy with your grace like the morning
Wrap your loving arms around me.

Hey unfaithful I will teach you
To be stronger, to be stronger.
Hey ungraceful I will teach you
To forgive one another.
Hey unfaithful I will teach you
To be stronger, to be stronger.
Hey unloving, I will love you,
I will love you, I will love you.

Hey unloving

I will love you

Jesus I'm ready to come home."

This is both glorifying to God and worshipful in heart. In defense of Screamo, There are 18 verses in the Psalms alone that talk about giving a "shout" of praise to God. Which there are a few definitions of the original Hebrew that I would like to address here for the sake of argument.

Ranan-to creak, to emit a stridulous sound, to shout aloud for joy

Patsach-to break out (in joyful sound), break forth into joy, make a loud noise

Ragad-to stamp, to spring about (wildly or for joy), aloud, noise, shouted

Renanah-a shout (for joy), joyful voice, singing, triumphing

Rinnah-a shrill sound, shout of grief or joy, gladness, proclamation, rejoicing, shouting, triumph, singing

Ruwa-to split the ears with sound, shout (for alarm or joy), blow an alarm, make a joyful noise, shout for joy, sound an alarm

If you read these, then shouting, or screaming, both had and as such, should be allowed there place in praise and worship music.

I don't think that I need to give much more of a defense that any form of music can be worshipful, but just in case, I will leave you with this last scripture which I believe goes straight to the heart of what true praise and worship should look like and identify with, more than style or form, Philippians 4:8 says "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
JTSmith

Con

There is a time and a place for different kinds of music.
When I am sad, I listen to some acoustic
When I am feeling good i turn up some rock
When Im partying a crank some hip-hop
When I am celebrating god, throw on some christian rap/rock/country/whatever
When I am worshipping him I sing something that keeps me reverent.

Most christians would agree that worshipping the Lord God would include reverencing his name.

Reverence, as defined by merrian-webster:
"a feeling or attitude of deep respect tinged with awe; veneration."

Most people would agree, that an act of reverence usually infers some silence, or controlled behavior. We show are respect for the Lord through humility and good behavior. We shouldnt act out, or make spectacles of ourselves during church services.
Loud and irreverent music brings out emotions that drive a person to act out. Dancing and yelling while reverencing the lord takes attention away from him. A good rockband still gets more attention than god even if they are repeating "I Love Jesus" over and over again.

Loud and irreverent music doesn't have the emotional effect of slower more meaningful and melodic tunes.
For example, most people would be moved more by the melody from "Titanic" than from "Party Like a Rockstar".
About 8 months ago I attended a festival dedicated th jesus christ in my school auditorium after school. They had all kinds of neat shows and music. Two women came out and sang a slow duet and I wanted to cry I was so moved by the Lord. Then they played the rock and the rap. I still felt as though I was celebrating the Lord but not worshipping him. I wasnt moved by his word or message. Only by the notes the band played.

Rock/Rap/and Country can give the message just as well as a slow song, but they cant give the same emotional effect. When we are in a worship service we should be moved. We should feel Christs love. Its much harder the feel the spirit while listening to a strong beat and hard chords.

Lastly, these performance take attention away from the Lord that is due during a church service. People become more entranced with the skill of the lead guiatarist than the skill of the Creator. People get wound up in the sweet tunes and not in the telling lyrics. People become more focused on celebrating and dancing instead of reverencing.

Celebrating and dancing for the Lord are great! ...but only outside of Sunday Service

Sunday Service needs to be all about the Lord and his spirit!
We should be reverencing him.
It shouldnt be a rock concert
Debate Round No. 1
RequireTruth

Pro

JTSmith I think that you misunderstood the argument, or you have a very limited understanding of praise and worship. You keep using the word reverent to describe worship, when reverence is only one aspect of worship.

Webster's defines worship as to perform acts of homage or adoration. Easton's Bible Dictionary defines worship as homage rendered to God. Praise is defined as the joyful tribute of gratitude or homage rendered to the Divine Being; the act of glorifying or extolling the Creator; worship, particularly worship by song, distinction from prayer and other acts of worship; as, a service of praise. So when I am saying that you can praise and worship God through any form of music, by these definitions it is easily possible to worship God through multiple forms. Worship is not limited to reverence. What you are speaking of is an experience in worship, not worship as a whole. The problem with your argument is that you are limiting God and worship to a specific form. You are putting it in a box. Which, I am trying to expand the way worship is approached and viewed. It is agreeable that many people experience worship in similar ways. Most people won't find themselves in those deep heartfelt passionate moments listening or singing a rap or screamo song. However, to those who can, they often won't find themselves in deep heartfelt worship during slow songs. People worship in different ways.

Also, when you make the claim that performance takes away from the worship experience, I would argue that the worship leader at the time is taking away from the experience, not the actual song. A good worship leader is never the center of attention, and a good backing worship band will not detract from the worship experience. You can't fault the song because of the band.

Lastly if you look at the psalms, you cannot make the claim that every psalm is reverent. There are many that are very joyful and I would imagine, upbeat. Also when David says " "I will become even more undignified than this" (2 Samuel 6:22)" I don't think that he is referring to or in the spirit of reverence. So to say that reverence is the only form of worship is an injustice to worship and praise as a whole. God doesn't want our worship to become stagnant and devoid of happiness and excitement. Our God loves to see his children happy and joyful and also reverent and in awe of him. He is not looking for only one emotion in our praise.
JTSmith

Con

I am arguing this
In worship, reverence is Requisite!

Other forms of music outside of hymns is acceptable for appreciation, and celebration of the Lord. If I am at a Jesus festival listening to some christian rock than I am CELEBRATING the Lord, not worshipping.

Merriam-Webster defines the following:

Praise:
to glorify (a god or saint) especially by the attribution of perfections

Celebrate:
to honor (as a holiday) especially by solemn ceremonies or by refraining from ordinary business b: to mark (as an anniversary) by festivities or other deviation from routine

Worship:
reverence offered a divine being or supernatural power; also : an act of expressing such reverence

When worshipping god, one is praising and celebrating him. However, the act of praising and celebrating god comes in different forms, many of which are simply praising and celebrating, not worship. As seen by the definitions, reverence is requisite in worship, unlike praise and celebration.
Worship is an act, not simply an emotion. It is an action the requires reverence and calm and controlled behavior. It requires a serenity that allows someone to keep his mind dedicated to the Lord.

You Topic of Debate:
"Any form of music can be a form of praise and worship music"

Any form of music cannot be a form of worship music because not every form of music provides the reverence that is requisite to create a state of worshipping.
Debate Round No. 2
RequireTruth

Pro

JTSmith, first the title of this debate is that any form of music can be a form of praise and worship music. So PRAISE is a part of the debate. Also, to say that praise is not in and of itself an aspect of worship would be an interesting way to go, but either way, I don't think that you can make that argument. Also, the majority of your debate so far has been based solely on opinion, which is not a very solid ground to argue from, because you are only appealing to those people who side with your opinion instead of defending your opinion with truth from the bible. I have consistently throughout this argument used The Bible to defend my position, and not once, have I seen The Bible displayed to defend your position. So yet again, I will use The BIBLE and Webster's dictionary to defend my position.

Psalm 100:2 says, "Worship the LORD with gladness; come before him with joyful songs."

Here are the definitions of Joyfulness and gladness:

Joyfulness/Joyful: Great gladness [Webster's 1996, 1998] (As Defined by Dictionary.com - 1.full of joy, as a person or one's heart; glad; delighted.
2.showing or expressing joy, as looks, actions, or speech.
3.causing or bringing joy, as an event, a sight, or news; delightful:

Gladness: 1. Merriment; gayety accompanied with laughter; jollity. State or quality of being glad; pleasure; joyful satisfaction; cheerfulness. [Webster's 1996, 1998]

Isn't it interesting that Joyful is defined as Showing or expressing joy, as LOOKS, ACTIONS, OR SPEECH, Causing or bringing joy, As an EVENT, SIGHT, OR NEWS. Gladness is defined as merriment; gayety accompanied with LAUGHTER; jollity. Now laughter, actions, and looks, don't seem very reverent according to how you are expressing reverence.

Reverence is defined by Webster's as: Profound respect and esteem mingled with fear and affection, as for a holy being or place; the disposition to revere; veneration. [Webster's 1996, 1998]

Nowhere in that definition does it imply silence, slow melodic music, calm and controlled behavior, or anything that you have expressed reverence as so far. You can have respect for someone and still be joyful, glad, excited, etc. in there presence. You can even be somewhat fearful and affectionate of that person, and still express the above.

Again you have a very narrow-minded outlook on worship. To break up worship from Praise and Celebration, is like breaking up Jesus' Resurrection from his death. I know that Jesus was greatly celebrated and worshiped and praised after his resurrection from the dead. It was not a somber, calm and controlled environment when Jesus was resurrected. The apostles when they worshiped God and preached about him, were not somber, calm, and controlled in the synagogue, they were compared to drunkards.

Now you did say, "when worshipping god, one is praising and celebrating him."

But you also included: "However, the act of praising and celebrating god comes in different forms, many of which are simply praising and celebrating, not worship." Now I don't understand how praising God is separate from worship. I have never seen a single verse in the bible to support that view, and I have never heard a single person (until now) who has tried to substantiate that viewpoint.

In regards to your views on worship, Colossians 2:23 tells us, "Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed WORSHIP, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence."

I will ask you that in your response, you will correct your errors, or explain and defend your position with the Bible, not your personal opinion.
JTSmith

Con

JTSmith forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
21 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DATCMOTO 8 years ago
DATCMOTO
" Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the father is not in him." 1JOHN2:15 NKJV
" Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with this world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to make be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. " JAMES4:4 NKJV

You cannot get much more worldly than RocknRoll etc.. The purpose of this music is purely emotional, to 'lose control'.. One of the fruits of the Holy Spirit is self control, the EXACT opposite.
Consider the negative effect the counter culture has on SECULAR society since the late 1950's.. And we're bringing it into the Church?
Posted by Amplifier 8 years ago
Amplifier
RequireTruth,
from your proposal I would gladly debate with you, but wish not to repeat myself as I have already stated to InquireTruth. Im sure you understand me, and I hope we may debate after my other debate finishs. Though I do ask you to read and re-read what I have spoken to InquireTruth if you would please.

Thankyou for your offer and I pray we will debate to my delight.
Posted by RequireTruth 8 years ago
RequireTruth
Amplifier,

Would you be interested in a formal debate on the topic? I am always willing to share my passion and perspective on this topic.
Posted by Amplifier 8 years ago
Amplifier
Hello RequireTruth.

I have been absent from sometime, though my issue has not left me. What do you say with reference to InquireTruth and I? I pray we will continue the debate within our comments and finish the issue wholly. I ask for your words for our debate of the same issue differ greatly.
Posted by RequireTruth 8 years ago
RequireTruth
tangerineman91,

I agree with you that worship is an aspect of the life, which is why I emphasized worship MUSIC in the debate "I only caps it because I can't bold it." Romans 12 says to "Offer your lives as living sacrifices, this is your true offering of worship." So in response to you I agree whole-heartedly, but to claim that worship music can only fit into a specific mold, i.e. slow and reverent, is where I have a problem. Worship should be an aspect of our lives that is in every emotion not just reverence and as such, the music we use to express such should follow the emotions. Excitement deserves excited upbeat music, just like reverence deserves more slow calm music.

Thank you for your comment...
Posted by tangerineman91 8 years ago
tangerineman91
Just a question.

Shouldn't we worship God in the manner that we live our lives, not just in musical expressions? Oftentimes the word "worship" is used to describe when a community of believers sing in church.

Also, as evidenced by other comments, worship isn't just an emotional reaction. Listen to the old hymns. Many of them aren't particularly beautiful. But for the most part, they dissect a certain aspect of God's person. We gain a more articulate understanding of who God is when we sing and memorize those words.

But with that in mind, I would say that I'm not super fond of singing hymns all the time. I love the crunchy guitars and heavy drums. But worshipping God is so much more than the sound produced, the emotions evoked.

I would be more than happy to debate on the subject.
Posted by sweet00tranny 8 years ago
sweet00tranny
i'm voting pro.

i believe that god looks at the attitude of the heart in ALL circumstances, including worship.
i dont care if it's just mumbling words or screaming your lungs out, if your thoughts and attitudes are focused on god and your heart is in the right place, and you're full of passion and desire for him, i honestly dont give a crap.

its worship, and god loves it.
Posted by sonofzapp 8 years ago
sonofzapp
JT there is no one right way to worship god, and yes, while different music does inspire different moods, you can still recieve the same message and feeling as you would from any other genra. For example, if I write a slow song about god and the prophets and get someone with a beutiful voice to sing it then it could bring one to tears, but if you get a rapper like 2pac to do a rapp song about the same topic it can inspire the same effect, but only if you pay closer attention to the words. Though I will admit with all the beats, base, and notes in rock and hip-hop and rock the message can be lost, but anyone who knows their music will know the message the song carries. As long as the message is clear the reaction will be the same, nomatter how the message is presented.
Posted by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
Jt gets owned in round 3, but I'm bias.
Posted by Amplifier 8 years ago
Amplifier
Hello RequireTruth.

Truth, with so much failure of the truth of today, it is rare to find those seeking unconditinal truth. I will accept your challenge, though for the same topic no, unless you shall debate differently than InquireTruth I will agree. For if you debate as he, then my words are pointless to be repeated. But if you shall debate from spirit then I will agree, for this current debate with InquireTruth shall be of scripture, though if he willing, we shall arise to spirit together for this issue to be truly concluded.

I look forward to any, and all words from you. I am glad.

Amplifier
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