The Instigator
Shrekoning
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Father_Dagon
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Are Bigfoots actually Wookies?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/11/2016 Category: Science
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 436 times Debate No: 88080
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Shrekoning

Pro

The first round is for acceptance.
Father_Dagon

Con

I accept your challenge, great lord of the Shrek memes. It is time to finally put an end to this age-old debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Shrekoning

Pro

I will be arguing that the large, ape-like bipedal creature is actually a Wookiee, and not a "Bigfoot." I shall begin with the following points:

1. Why The Distinction Matters
If these are simply an unstudied Earth creature, then we would have no reason to be alarmed. But this is not the case, my friends. The truth, as it often is in life, is far more frightening. These creatures are actually Extra Terrestrial beings, or E.T.s, or as more commonly known... Aliens. (No, not the Mexican kind either.) Now that we know they are E.T.s, we must ask, why are they here? This is where the sinister part comes in. These beings are called Wookiees, and they hail from a galaxy far, far away. I do believe that the purpose of their visit, is research and reconnaissance in part of a much larger operation. This operation being, the colonization of Earth.

2. The Truth Behind Star Wars and The Prophecy of George Lucas

On May 25, 1977, a man named George Lucas, changed the world. He told the world the truth, through the Star Wars films. The world wasn't ready to hear it, so he gave it to them in the form of a "fictional" narrative. The truth is, they are an historical account of events occurring in a galaxy, far, far away. The world was so fascinated with this "fictional" film, that George Lucas allowed Disney and J.J. Abrams to continue the prophecy. The most significant evidence can be seen in "The Force Awakens" as Han Solo confirms that it is all true. He looks into the camera, wisdom shining brightly in his aging eyes, confirming the truth of the prophecy. George Lucas grew up in Modesto, California, an area which has seen extra terrestrial sightings before. Therefore, we can safely assume this is how the prophet George Lucas attained his wisdom. A Jedi obviously happened upon our planet, and trusted George Lucas with a holocron, which contained a full account of the history of the Star Wars Galaxy. George Lucas was then instructed to inform the masses in a way that would not incite panic. What better way than to make a movie franchise? Only the most intelligent would be able to learn of its true existence, beyond the film screen.

In summary, Star Wars is an historical account of major people and events in the Star Wars Galaxy, and George Lucas plays the role of the Prophet due to an early encounter with a Jedi Knight.
Father_Dagon

Con

There are two major points that my opponent had made in the previous argument. The first that the distinction between the Sasquatch and Wookiee is necessary to make, which I will not dispute, and that George Lucas was a prophet. This second point, however, seems to be quite absurd. Following with your distinction between the two entities known as Bigfoot and the Wookiee, it must be noted that there are some very important physiological differences between the two. It is necessary to make a quick comment that when I refer to "Bigfoot," or one of a variety of other regional equivalents, I am referring to the same general group of creatures.

1. The Star Wars "Prophecy"

Let us begin by discussing the supposed "prophecy" granted to George Lucas. I concede that Modesto, California has had a decent number of extraterrestrial sightings, but that hardly warrants the assumption that some humans from an undiscovered planet in an undiscovered galaxy rich with sentient life made a journey to Earth with the purpose of sharing this prophecy. More on that later, when the origins of this "holocron" and its keeper is spoken on at greater length. I question why this Jedi trusted this incredibly important and sacred mission to, depending on when this encounter occurred, an average student, a failed director (after THX 1138 flopped) or a somewhat inexperienced, though moderately successful director. Would it not have made more sense to approach a very influential political leader or politician? They would have had the pull to make a concerted defense against the Wookiee colonization plan. What does making a movie accomplish? Even if your assertion that "...the most intelligent would be able to learn of its true existence..." was true, what could they possibly do that would be better than informing someone in a high position of power? If, say, the President of the United States and the Soviet Premier were alerted together of this threat, assuming that the Jedi would be able to convince them, a panic would still likely be avoided, and the world would be secretly prepared for this state of intergalactic warfare. My opponent also has made the assumption that a specific scene in "Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens" acts as "The most significant evidence..." When Han Solo looks into the camera, this theory is a giant, illogical leap. While it is possible that he was addressing the audience during that moment, this moment of "wisdom" could entirely be based in the situation present in the movie, and even if he was meant to address those watching with that look, it makes little sense to assume that is evidence of Star Wars as a prophecy. There are a number of other movies that feature actors looking into the camera, but we would hardly assume those to be prophetic, so why is this specific scene so special?

2. The Supposed Jedi and his Historical "Holocron"

It is very important to point out certain flaws in how this prophecy would end up on Earth to begin with. Earth seems very likely be undiscovered in the Star Wars universe, as humans are known as having an unknown origin, and a complete lack of any mention of Earth in any canon Star Wars works in the research I had conducted. Assuming that the Jedi had "happened upon our planet," as my opponent had stated, why would he or she have a holocron? After the events following Order 66 and the destruction of the Jedi Archives, a great number of holocrons were destroyed, so they became quite rare and expensive items. Assuming that someone had made a holocron with all of this historical data to represent this tumultuous period, this Jedi would have no reason to keep it in the ship during exploration. Why isn't it in the Holocron Vault? Why this Jedi is out exploring instead of more orthodox occupations is beyond me, but a third concern is, assuming that the holocron was kept by the Jedi, and he/she happened upon Earth, why would this Jedi give it up to George Lucas? Is there a stash of these in storage that is given out like candy to any new civilizations met? If the Jedi just "happened" upon the planet, how did he/she know that the planet was set to be colonized by Wookiees in the near future? How did the Wookiees themselves know about the planet? If they knew about it, why didn't they share this important information (this could provide incredible data on human origins, and it would likely be nice to find other humans out there) with their close allies?

3. Physiological Observation

One could feasibly observe that recent accounts of the bipedal, human-like creature with many names appears to be somewhat similar to a Wookie. The problem is that the cultural impact of Star Wars has been so significant that the observations made in sightings has changed. The population has grown used to the observation of Wookiees in Star Wars and its associated merchandise, games, and all else, so a creature at a great distance with a somewhat similar appearance would set off a recognition of it on a subconscious level. To avoid this pit, I suggest that sightings before the release of "Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope" in 1977 should be exclusively used. When observing these cases, one can easily find that the Bigfoot and its ilk have rather noticeable differences. Now I shall present three examples of Bigfoot sightings from differing time periods and geographical areas that have significant differences in appearance to the Wookiee.

Ex. 1: "Yeti" of the Himalayan mountain range: The "Abominable Snowman" is a figure that stands with the like of Sasquatch and Bigfoot in terms of recognition. There have been a number of sightings in the distant past that have grown into folklore in the region, and more recently, there have been a great number of supposed sightings and found tracks. We will specifically examine the account of N.A. Tombazi in 1925. At 15,000 feet, he had seen a figure that was beyond doubt a human shape, but upon closer inspection, footprints were found 16 to 24 inches apart, and 6 to 7 inches long. This is compared to the average human, that has a 2.2 to 2.5 foot stride and an average foot length (in the study I read, the foot length is the average of Japanese women, which I selected due to the relative smallness of feet, so it is the low of possible averages) of 8.6 inches. While it does not sound like a significant difference, a 7.2 to 8.2 foot ape-like creature should have feet at least as large as an average human, and likely a longer stride. It is quite unlikely that these prints would be made by any Wookiee-like creature.

Ex. 2: The Susquehannock "Albawitches": In Susquehannock legend, there exists strange ape-like creatures that stood around 4 feet tall. From the legends of the original tribe to the modern day, there have been sightings and myths surrounding this entity. Much of what has been said points to it being quite similar to the other Bigfoot legends of the area. Simply put, this is around half the size of the Wookiee creatures spoken of in the supposed "prophecy."

Ex. 3: The Australian "Yowie": Once more, this is an entity rooted deeply in the myths of the native people. Sightings from these legends to the modern day persist. In a diary entry from John Green on the 25th of June in the year 1851, he mentions a creature described as "...short, stout, and of very muscular appearance." Though nothing specific is given, an average Wookiee would not in any way be "small."

Sources:
http://www.bfro.net...
http://climbing.about.com...
http://starwars.wikia.com...
http://www.yowiehunters.com.au...
http://starwars.wikia.com...
http://www.biography.com...
Debate Round No. 2
Shrekoning

Pro

1. The Star Wars "Prophecy"
It is quite obvious that Han Solo was confirming the Prophecy.

Han Solo has a twin on Earth, you may recognize him to be "Indiana Jones." Obviously, the prophecy was delievered soon after Han was born, and he was seperated at birth from his twin brother. The Jedi then grabbed some Holocrons that he copied his historical account of the Star Wars galaxy onto, and took off. It is pure speculation on why this Jedi fled his home galaxy. Perhaps the Sith Empire had risen to fight against the newly formed Republic established by the Rebels. Anyway, something clearly forced this Jedi into exile, into other galaxies. He came upon Earth after many,many,many years off being in stasis, and was awoken automatically by his ship when it detected life. Once on Earth, he entrusted the care of Solo to Henry and Anna jones, who raised him as if he were their own. "Harrison Ford", the "actor" who "portrays" Indiana Jones, lives in California. George Lucas was born in California. California has bigfoot sightings. California has alien sightings. George Lucas had Indiana Jones play Han Solo since they are identical twins. Obviously Han came to Earth or otherwise contacted Indiana, and this influenced Han later. This is why he confirms the prophecy in the latest Star Wars movies. As for why George Lucas was entrusted with the holocron, it is obvious. The governments of Earth are corrupt and cannot be trusted. They would have detained the Jedi and performed experiments on him. George Lucas is our prophet, and he must establish the defence of this planet against Wookie aggression.

2. The Supposed Jedi and his Historical "Holocron"

Obviously the Jedi lent the holocron to George Lucas who then copied it onto a flash drive. Jedi have traveled out of the Star Wars galaxy before. Take Revan for example. He explored outside of the galaxy for the Sith Empire, and he found them. This Jedi was most likely searching for the origin of Humans. Humans were most likely taken as slaves by the Taung, who were also a native species on Coruscant. It is likely the Taung are the true natives to Coruscant, and the humans were slaves who escaped once reaching the planet and eventually drove off their oppressors. While being transported to the Star Wars galaxy, they went through a black hole and thus traveled through time.

3. Physiological Observation

It has been some time since the Star Wars films and the current date, so Wookies have obviously adapted new traits not seen on film.


I will begin my next phase of Attack.

1.Bigfoot cannot be an Earth animal

The theory of evolution rules out Bigfoot being an Earth species. The only other animal that is similar to bigfoot would be Gigantopithecus blacki, which likely moved on all fours, like a gorilla, not a bipedal ape. This rules out Gigantopithecus as Bigfoot. It is more likely to believe that Bigfoots are agents of extraterrestial nature.

2.No corpses, or fossils

There have been no corpses or fossils found of a Bigfoot creature. Any self-reported findings are likely to instead belong to Gigantopithecus. Due to a lack of corpses or fossils, it would be logical to assume that no Bigfoot has died on Earth, or at least has had its body transported off Earth.

3. Biowumbology

My degree in Biowumbology allows me to be a certified expert on large creatures. I can say without a doubt, as a Doctor of Biowumbology, that Bigfoot is an alien creature.

4.Evolution
No fossils of any changes of Gigantopithecus or its ancestors show that they would would evolve into a Bigfoot like creature.

5. Similarity
The physical appearance of bigfoots and Wookiees are very similiar. Any regional variants of Bigfoots could be explained as purposeful mutation to aid in exploration and survival. Given that I have established that Bigfoots cannot be Earth creatures, and given their close resembalance to Wookiees, it is safe to say that they are in fact Wookiees.

Father_Dagon

Con

1. The Star Wars "Prophecy"

My opponent has postulated that Harrison Ford was a twin of the "real" Han Solo. That he was placed into stasis with a Jedi fleeing from the galaxy for unknown reasons, awakening from stasis at last when approaching Earth. After arriving on Earth, the Jedi had given the twin to the Ford family, and, due to Lucas's experience with the holocron, given the grown twin the position as Han Solo in "Star Wars." It is a lovely story, but a story is all that it is. California has alien and Bigfoot sightings, sure, but that is hardly evidence, as many other areas in the world have both as well. Living in California means little as well, given that Harrison Ford had little to no real contact with George Lucas until he was cast in "American Graffiti" in the early 1970's. My opponent has stated that the twin of Han Solo "confirms the prophecy" because the real Han Solo had contacted him in some form. I mean no offense, but must say that this logic is simply foolish, an assertion with no evidence to back up another assertion with no evidence. In response to the corruption of Earth's government, this could have been solved by easily with the use of what is referred to as "Jedi Mind Tricks." Given that the population of Earth are not prepared for someone placing thoughts in their minds, they would be very susceptible to such a trick. Political leaders could be manipulated, and any possibility of capture could be swiftly dealt with in a nonviolent fashion. I would also reiterate that George Lucas would accomplish basically nothing in warning the population by releasing the movie. The best that could be hoped for is that the population would be a bit more familiar with the idea of the Star Wars galaxy's existence. There is also no evidence that George Lucas himself has plans to rise into that position of power so that he, as "prophet," could establish a defense against supposed Wookiee aggression.

2. Of Jedi and Flash Drives

What? He copied the contents of a holocron onto a flash drive? That is not feasible. Holocrons hold phenomenal amounts of information, enough that it would not be able to fit on a flash drive. Other than that, how would the force guardian of ti work? How would the information even be able to change from the holocron into computer data, and then into the flash drive? Also, did this Jedi just "happen" upon the planet, automatically coming out of stasis upon finding life on the planet, or was it an active effort to find the source of mankind? How would either of these lead to the warning of a Wookiee invasion, as nothing my opponent has said so far points to Wookiee knowledge of Earth or how the Jedi would know of such? My opponent also has made the statement that the Jedi traveled through time to get to the Earth. Is this wormhole. While it is established that wormholes are able to be used, there is no canon evidence that I have found in my research that has established time travel as a result. It is more of a shortcut through position than a means of altering the past. The possibility of time-traveling through wormholes is also currently seen as unlikely, the famous scientist Stephen Hawking even asserting that it is not possible.

3. Physiological Observation

And the legend of Spring-Heeled Jack is obviously a Sith Lord. There is no evidence that these traits have been adapted. A variety of different sizes have been observed in Bigfoot legends around the globe, so it would have to be from a variety of sub-species created either from long isolation or a form of genetic therapy.

4. Bigfoot as an Earth Animal

I am not arguing that Bigfoot is an actual creature. It could be real, fake, or a bit of both. The reality of the Bigfoot is irrelevant to the debate. If the Bigfoot is found to be fake here, that presents no real advantage to my opponent or to myself. I could bring up a number of arguments against the existence of any such creature on Earth, be it Sasquatch of Wookiee, while my opponent could bring up the same arguments and conclude that such an entity would have to be a Wookiee.

5. Biowumbology

Wumbology in any form is not accepted as a valid science, and my opponent has no evidence to provide displaying his credentials as a doctor in this fictional field. This point is, by its very nature, invalid.

6. Similarity

The regional variants are all similar to Wookiees in the same way that humans or gorillas are similar to Wookiees. Ignoring the more recent sightings, as the cultural significance of "Star Wars" has ruined the validity of such, they appear vaguely similar, but hardly the same creatures. As for genetic manipulation, there have been no accounts of Wookiees employing anything of that kind. It seems to be against the honor of that species to do anything of that kind, be it the aforementioned genetic engineering or cloning. Any societal change over the years is, once again, pure speculation and cannot be proven.

Sources:
http://starwars.wikia.com...
http://www.biography.com...
http://starwars.wikia.com...
http://starwars.wikia.com...
http://www.space.com...
http://starwars.wikia.com...
Debate Round No. 3
Shrekoning

Pro

Shrekoning forfeited this round.
Father_Dagon

Con

Out of respect for my opponent, I will stay my hand this round. We shall simply begin our conclusions. I declare this round to be over!
Debate Round No. 4
Shrekoning

Pro

Shrekoning forfeited this round.
Father_Dagon

Con

My opponent has, once again, failed to post an argument. Throughout this debate, he has attempted to make points which have been revealed to be baseless assertions, and attempts to give evidence become simply other baseless assertions. My opponent has been incapable of providing a single point with tangible evidence in this entire debate. Have there been UFO sightings and Bigfoot sightings in Modesto, California? Yes, but there have have been sightings like that all over the world. Are government too corrupt to adequately deal with a Wookiee invasion? Yes, but they are all we have, and corruption could be dealt with by the Jedi utilizing the famous mind tricks. As for much of the rest of his argument throughout the debate, the counter is simply, "Yes, but." Many of the Bigfoot (or the regional equivalent) sightings prior to the release of Star Wars were described as entities that differ greatly from the Wookiee species. I thank my opponent for the opportunity to debate this topic, and to those who are watching, you will likely see us debating again in the future.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by dr_sepheroth 9 months ago
dr_sepheroth
That is like asking one twin in a pair of conjoined twins always dies.

No science behind the question as Big Foot is another name for an extinct version of man from the homo genus and wookie is a made up species from star ward.
Posted by Father_Dagon 11 months ago
Father_Dagon
Fear not, my friend, for the Shrekoning and I have debated this in real life a few times in the past. There is a personal stake in this contest of wits, as we are friends in actual, genuine, real life.
Posted by Father_Dagon 11 months ago
Father_Dagon
Fear not, my friend, for the Shrekoning and I have debated this in real life a few times in the past. There is a personal stake in this contest of wits, as we are friends in actual, genuine, real life.
Posted by Rami 11 months ago
Rami
On behalf of everything that is good and just, I forbid either of you of forfeiting. This age old question must be reconciled.
No votes have been placed for this debate.