The Instigator
Topaet
Pro (for)
The Contender
atjacobmajor
Con (against)

Are Islam and Islamic culture immoral?

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atjacobmajor has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/28/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 300 times Debate No: 104195
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

Topaet

Pro

Immoral = Evil/violating moral principles; not conforming to the patterns of conduct usually accepted or established as consistent with principles of personal and social ethics (e.g. human rights).

Islamic culture = The cultural practices common to historically Islamic people.

Rules:
1. Provide evidence for your counter-arguments.
2. Please refrain from using ad hominem arguments and/or logical fallacies.
3. The first round is for the rules/agreeing to the debate, the second for the opening arguments/rebuttals, the third for rebuttals, and the fourth for closing statements. The fourth round is to be used for rebuttals and conclusions only; no new arguments.
4. Do not forfeit.
Please do not accept the debate, if you do not intend to abide by the rules.
Good luck and have fun in the debate!
atjacobmajor

Con

I accept under one condition? By what standards is this immoral? Cristian standards? Atheist standards? Depending on what stance you take I MAY have to forfeit, however this is unlikely. Without further ado, I wish both sides good luck and may the best debater win! :)
Debate Round No. 1
Topaet

Pro

"I accept under one condition? By what standards is this immoral?"
I apologize for not being clear enough, I"m defending the position that Islam/Islamic culture are immoral by western standards. The human rights are a good example of western morality (e.g. right to life, freedom from torture, right to a fair trial, freedom of speech and thought")
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

1. Islam is against religious freedom:
[1]: According to the hadiths, apostates are to be punished by death: Sahih al-Bukhari 56:226, [2] Sunan Ibn Majah 20:2632, [3] Sahih al-Bukhari 88:5.
[4]: A recent study by the Pew Research Center has revealed that about 40% of Muslims in Muslim-majority countries support the death penalty for apostasy.
[5] According to the Qur'an, apostates will be greatly punished: Quran 9:66, [6] Quran 16: 106, [7] Quran 4:89.

2. Islamic culture supports Islamic terror:
[8] A recent study by the Pew Research Center has revealed that about 28% of the Muslim world population believe that suicide bombings are occasionally, sometimes, or often justified.
[9] A recent study by NOP Research has revealed that about 25% of British Muslims have affirmed that the 7/7 attacks were justified.
[10] A recent study by the Pew Research Center has revealed that 35% of French Muslims, 24% of British Muslims, 13% of German Muslims, 25% of Spanish Muslims and 71% of Nigerian Muslims believe that suicide bombings against civilian targets are often, sometimes or rarely justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies.
[11] According to a recent study about 42% of Turkish Muslims believe that Muslims were the true victims of the Charlie Hebdo attack, and 20% remarked that the Charlie Hebdo employees had deserved death for depicting Muhammad.

3. Islamic culture is sexist and most Muslims are sexist:
[12] A recent study by the Pew Research Center has revealed that about 86% of Muslims in Muslim-majority countries believe that women must always obey their husbands.
[12] A recent study by the Pew Research Center has revealed that about 27% of Muslims in Muslim-majority countries believe that women should not be allowed to decide whether they want to wear the veil or not.
[13] Islamic countries have the worst women's rights on earth (Yemen is ranked 144 of 144, Pakistan 143, Syria 142, Saudi Arabia 141, Iran 139, Egypt 132, Turkey 130, United Arab Emirates 124).

4. Islam is homophobic and a large majority of Muslims are homophobic:
[14] According to the Qur'an, homosexuality is to be punished by death: Quran 7:80-84 and [15] 6:165-66.
[16] The only countries where there is still the death penalty for homosexuality are Islamic countries.
[17] According to Sharia, homosexuality is to be punished by death.
[18] According to the hadiths, homosexuality is to be punished by death: Abu Dawud 40:112, [19] Sunan Ibn Majah 20:2658.
[20] A recent study by the Pew Research Center has revealed that about 89% of Muslims in Muslim-majority countries believe that homosexuality is immoral.

Sources:
[1]: https://sunnah.com...
[2]: https://sunnah.com...
[3]: https://sunnah.com...
[4]: http://www.pewforum.org...
[5]: https://quran.com...
[6]: https://quran.com...
[7]: https://quran.com...
[8]: http://www.pewforum.org...
[9]: http://www.cbsnews.com...
[10]: http://pewresearch.org...
[11]: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk...
[12]: http://www.pewforum.org...
[13]: http://reports.weforum.org...
[14]: https://quran.com...
[15]: https://quran.com...
[16]: http://old.ilga.org...
[17]: https://en.wikipedia.org...
[18]: https://sunnah.com...
[19]: https://sunnah.com...
[20]: http://www.pewforum.org...
atjacobmajor

Con

I must apologize, as I came into this debate thinking you were some bigoted racist, but in fact you are looking at things objectively. My argument was that ALL religions were immoral. Again, I sincerely apologize and cannot accept this debate because I agree with you, and immaturely jumped into this. I do apologize :(
Debate Round No. 2
Topaet

Pro

"I sincerely apologize and cannot accept this debate because I agree with you, and immaturely jumped into this. I do apologize"
That is quite unfortunate.
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"My argument was that ALL religions were immoral."
That would not have been very effective since you would have agreed with my conclusion ("Islam is immoral").

P1: All religions are immoral.
P2: Islam is a religion.
C1: Islam is immoral
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You would also have the burden of proof for your assertion that all religions are immoral.

I would have no reason to attack your assertion but I could, for example, have asked you to prove that Jainism is immoral, which, I assume, would have been quite challenging.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
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This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by AlizR 3 months ago
AlizR
Respected Debater, the key word that I would like to highlight in your notion is "social ethics" by which I can assume your intentions would be of encircling the area including the basic human rights, right of free speech, and right to live. I agree with the idea that you proposed saying that Islam has always withdrawn "social ethics" but I would like to continue it with my own interpretation to your idea that, the withdrawal to social ethics has always been a societal construct rather than an idea attached to Islamic faith so i oppos. I would like to explain this further through evidences from history and present.
Before the origin of Islam in Arabian Peninsula, the whole of Arab was engulfed in all kinds of brutalities such as burying girls alive, discouraging education, no documented or proposed policies regarding marriage, inheritance etc. Quran on numerous occasions, has highlighted these issues and presented a positive alternative for them for e.g,' Do not kill your offspring for fear of want: for it is We Who provide for them and for you as well. Indeed their killing is a heinous excuse."(Quran, 17:31). Also, 'Kind speech and forgiveness are better than charity followed by injury. And Allah is free of need and forbearing" (Quran 2:261)
Jihad, a common term which has always been perceived as "Islamic permission to fight and kill", is an Arabic word meaning, struggle or effort, and in Islam there are three kinds of Jihad, jihad with oneself, jihad for the protection of oneself and jihad for protection of fellow faith holders. Terrorism associated with this Islamic term, is basically and always has a political background and I can prove this by presenting the atrocities occurring in the Muslim nations such as Palestine,Pakistan etc. Attacks on own mosques and Muslim sect's minorities is in no way a religious intention.
When you declare Islam as immoral or unethical, who are you talking about? Because Islam and Muslims are two different identities. Word li
Posted by AlizR 3 months ago
AlizR
Respected Debater, the key word that I would like to highlight in your notion is "social ethics" by which I can assume your intentions would be of encircling the area including the basic human rights, right of free speech, and right to live. I agree with the idea that you proposed saying that Islam has always withdrawn "social ethics" but I would like to continue it with my own interpretation to your idea that, the withdrawal to social ethics has always been a societal construct rather than an idea attached to Islamic faith. Of course I would like to explain this further through evidences from history and present.
Before the origin of Islam in Arabian Peninsula, the whole of Arab was engulfed in all kinds of brutalities such as burying girls alive, discouraging education, no documented or proposed policies regarding marriage, inheritance etc. Quran on numerous occasions, has highlighted these issues and presented a positive alternative for them for e.g,' Do not kill your offspring for fear of want: for it is We Who provide for them and for you as well. Indeed their killing is a heinous excuse."(Quran, 17:31). Also, 'Kind speech and forgiveness are better than charity followed by injury. And Allah is free of need and forbearing" (Quran 2:261)
Jihad, a common term which has always been perceived as "Islamic permission to fight and kill", is an Arabic word meaning, struggle or effort, and in Islam there are three kinds of Jihad, jihad with oneself, jihad for the protection of oneself and jihad for protection of fellow faith holders. Terrorism associated with this Islamic term, is basically and always has a political background and I can prove this by presenting the atrocities occurring in the Muslim nations such as Palestine,Pakistan etc. Attacks on own mosques and Muslim sect's minorities is in no way a religious intention.
When you declare Islam as immoral or unethical, who are you talking about? Because Islam and Muslims are two different identities. Word lim
Posted by AlizR 3 months ago
AlizR
Respected Debater, the key word that I would like to highlight in your notion is "social ethics" by which I can assume your intentions would be of encircling the area including the basic human rights, right of free speech, and right to live. I agree with the idea that you proposed saying that Islam has always withdrawn "social ethics" but I would like to continue it with my own interpretation to your idea that, the withdrawal to social ethics has always been a societal construct rather than an idea attached to Islamic faith. Of course I would like to explain this further through evidences from history and present.
Before the origin of Islam in Arabian Peninsula, the whole of Arab was engulfed in all kinds of brutalities such as burying girls alive, discouraging education, no documented or proposed policies regarding marriage, inheritance etc. Quran on numerous occasions, has highlighted these issues and presented a positive alternative for them for e.g,' Do not kill your offspring for fear of want: for it is We Who provide for them and for you as well. Indeed their killing is a heinous excuse."(Quran, 17:31). Also, 'Kind speech and forgiveness are better than charity followed by injury. And Allah is free of need and forbearing" (Quran 2:261)
Jihad, a common term which has always been perceived as "Islamic permission to fight and kill", is an Arabic word meaning, struggle or effort, and in Islam there are three kinds of Jihad, jihad with oneself, jihad for the protection of oneself and jihad for protection of fellow faith holders. Terrorism associated with this Islamic term, is basically and always has a political background and I can prove this by presenting the atrocities occurring in the Muslim nations such as Palestine,Pakistan etc. Attacks on own mosques and Muslim sect's minorities is in no way a religious intention.
When you declare Islam as immoral or unethical, who are you talking about? Because Islam and Muslims are two different identities. Word lim
Posted by canis 3 months ago
canis
You could argue that any moral based on religion, (a dream) is immoral...You could argue that any moral based on facts can not be immoral...
Posted by levi_smiles 3 months ago
levi_smiles
Topaet skews the argument with this definition of immoral, taking the dictionary.com definition but glueing "evil" to front and "e.g. human rights" to the end. Since morality is conformity to social norms and
"Islamic Culture" is actually a descriptor for one social norm, there's no possibility of evaluating that culture as moral/immoral except by an external societal norm. Pro could successfully argue that Islam seems immoral according to Western culture but arguing that Islam seems immoral according to Islamic culture fails by circularity. Evil is likewise culturally subjective but attachment to this definition has the advantage of weakening the societal code/norms context. Human rights is likewise subjective but attachment to this definition brings a decidedly Western Code of morality to the definition.

A cannibal can be perfectly moral in a cannibal culture, although Western culture might frown. Pro needs to define which context, whose societal norms are being applied here.
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