The Instigator
BJanders96
Pro (for)
The Contender
Tthompson1995
Con (against)

Are Mormons Christian?

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Debate Round Forfeited
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/13/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 264 times Debate No: 101938
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

BJanders96

Pro

I'll say this first: "Mormons" are a nickname given to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
The merriam-webster dictionary defines Christians as "one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ." Just from the name, Mormons are shown to believe in Jesus Christ.
Tthompson1995

Con

I am a follower of Jesus Christ, I would call myself a Christian. For that reason alone it both scares and offends me that Mormons would consider themselves to be Christians. I disagree with merriam-webster's definition of what being a Christian is, because that is not what Jesus taught. James 2:19 says, "even the demons believe, and they shudder." Another reason I do not believe that mormons follow Jesus is because I do not believe that you believe in the true Jesus. According to the Bible, Jesus is the creator of all things who has existed for all eternity. Mormons believe that their savior was created and is spirit brothers with satan and every other person who has walked the earth. So Christians are following after one person and Mormons are following after another.
Debate Round No. 1
BJanders96

Pro

Mormons are also believers of the true Christ. They believe that Christ was the creator of the world and that he is a separate and distinct being beside God. Within the first few passages of the John, it says that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (This is directly taken from the King James Version of the Bible. In every version of the Bible, however, I found that 'Word' was capitalized, which denotes that it refers to something or someone) These show that Christ (him being the 'Word') and God are separate individuals with the same purpose. Mormons believe that the bible is the record of Christ's dealings with the Jews and the people in that area, but that the bible is still the word of God as long as it is translated correctly (it has lost a lot of the truths it once held due to mishandling, deliberate deceit and poor translations throughout history. It still holds many of the truths it once did, but the majority of it has become unclear and clouded in unknown meanings and wording). That being said, Mormons hold the Bible as fact and history. They just couple it along with other scripture, which doesn't detract from the bible in anyway, but helps clarify a few things that have become tainted.

Mormons also believe that the Jesus Christ in the bible is the Son of God the father. They believe they are children of god because everyone was created as spirits in the pre-mortal life. They believe that Christ was the first-born child of God and therefore held the role of paving the way for everyone else by saving us from sin.

That being said, Mormons believe that in order to be saved, one needs to live the laws and commandments given to man from Jesus Christ and God the father.
In 1 Peter 1:18-19, it says
"18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot."
This is saying that you can only be saved by remembering that he died so people could receive a remission of their sins. This is made possible because he suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane by taking on himself all the sins of everyone that ever did and ever will live. By accepting this and doing our best to not sin, it allows us to be free from those sins that he took upon himself. He later says in Revelation 21:27, "And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." Mormons believe that no unclean thing can enter into the Kingdom of God. In their Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 27:19, it says "And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end." They believe that after Christ rose from the tomb, he visited those people in the spirit world and then visited the peoples that had inhabited the American continents.

Mormons believe that they are Christians because they believe in the words Christ has spoken, they follow the teachings that he gave and they accept that it is only through him and his sacrifice that they can return to live in heaven.

Just out of curiosity, what is your definition of being a Christian?
Tthompson1995

Con

1 Peter 1:18-19 is totally correct. That we can only be saved through the precious blood of Christ. But you just said that we need to LIVE THE LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS. Jesus does not say that. All we must do to be saved is to put our faith IN THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. If we feel like we have to do something more than place your faith in christ, LIKE GOOD DEEDS, then Christ sacrifice was unsuccessful. Galatians 2:21 backs that up when it says, "if righteousness were THROUGH THE LAW, THEN CHRIST DIED FOR NO REASON." Also, at the beginning you said that mormons believe in the true Christ because you believe in the creator of the world (Which you do not believe that he created everything, because you believe that he was a created being, and John 1 says that nothing came into creation that he did not create which includes satan, but you believe that he and satan are brothers both created). And it says that the WORD WAS GOD. so the word Word can be interchanged with the word GOD, so lets skip to verse 14... GOD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US. But just because you say you believe 2 basic core Christian beliefs about Jesus does not mean that you believe in the true Jesus. If a muslim talked to us, he would say he believes that there is one God, and that the old testament is true, but that does not mean they believe in Christianity. In the same way, just because you believe in 2 Christian truths, that does not mean you believe in the true Jesus. The true Jesus paid for our sins on the cross, created everything that has ever existed, has always existed, and is not an offspring of God the Father. And a Christian is someone who has placed their faith in Christ and not anything else. And by that I mean is that we realize that there is nothing we can do to earn our way into heaven, get higher up in a different level in heaven, etc. But believing that Christ has done EVERYTHING! You do not have to go to a temple, pay a tithe, wear undergarments, etc.
Debate Round No. 2
BJanders96

Pro

Before presenting my next argument, I would like to know which version of the bible you're referencing. I'd like to research and present some of the scriptures from that version, cause so far I've only been using the King James Version. This is genuine curiosity and interest.

I'm curious why good works would not need to be coupled with faith in Christ and his sacrifice. In John 14:15, it says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." It later says in verse 21 that "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." The bible continues with verses 23 and 24 by saying that "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (24) He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father"s which sent me." If we love Christ, we need to keep the commandments that he set in place for us. If we didn't love him, we wouldn't accept his sacrifice and have faith in what he did for us. If we don't have faith in his sacrifice and what he did for us, we couldn't be saved. Therefore, because we love him, we keep his commandments and accept his sacrifice.

In James 2:17-18 (right after a reference you made in your first argument) it says that "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. (18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." Faith is an action, not in the usage of the word (it's not a verb), but rather the action of having faith and doing something with it. In order to help our faith grow, we need to exercise what we have been taught. If we just say we have faith and let it sit, it will deteriorate.

Let me give an example: If you were to read on a website that there was a new product that you should that does something awesome, you might be hesitant and skeptical. Once you do try it and see that it does work as well as was stated, you trust the source a little more. As you follow their advice and continue seeing good things come from what they tell you about, your trust continues to grow. This is how friendships are made, how credit companies reduce the APR and how faith in Christ is strengthened.

On a different note, if Christ is not the offspring of God the Father, why is God called "God the Father?" Also, why does Christ says things like my father, the father, and Abba (being translated from Hebrew meaning Father). Do you believe that Christ just always was there from the creation of the universe? He did indeed create the heavens and the earth as described in the old testament of the bible, but he was also created. Just as children grow up to be parents, why would he not also be born, grow up and become a parent? It's said that we were created in the same image of God. This brings me to another point. The God of the Old Testament is a different one than the God of the New Testament. From Genesis to Malachi it speaks of Jesus as being the one that gave Moses the Ten Commandments, spoke to Abraham, commanded Noah to build the Ark, etc. In Exodus 31: 1-2, it says "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (2) See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri... (it just lists a few more names)." Throughout the New Testament, he's referred to as Christ, The Lord.

As a thought I had, Christ says "God the Father" quite a bit, which kind-of sounds like he's saying The Higher God. This makes sense to me because it clarifies to a degree what John said; "The Word was with God, the Word was God." It denotes that they are both Gods. Which ties directly into something that Mormons believe. They believe that God is the highest god, but that the three members of the Holy Trinity (as some other Christian churches have called them) are God, the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. These three individuals make up the God-head.

Mormons also believe that Christ was born in the flesh to Mary after conceiving after being told about Christ. He grew up, began his ministry and died after suffering in agony for the sins of the world. He was betrayed by Judas Iscariot, forced to carry his cross through the city to a hill called Golgotha, or Calvary, where he was nailed to this cross and crucified by the people he tried to teach and show love to. He was then taken to a tomb, laid inside and a large stone was rolled to cover the entrance with guards standing watch. After the third day, Christ's tomb was found empty by Mary Magdalene whom Christ visited before he went to the spirit world. He then reunited with his body in a process called resurrection.

It is because of the suffering he felt, his death and crucifixion, and his resurrection that everyone that accepts Christ's atonement (what his suffering and death are called) and tries to be like him will have the opportunity to return to heaven, or return to live with Christ.

In 1st John 1:7-10, we can read
"7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

The first part is something I'd like to emphasize. If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ his son (God's son) cleanseth us from all sin. This doesn't mean that we will earn a spot in heaven; we could never do anything that would EARN a spot in heaven, but it will give us the opportunity we need to repent (forsake our sins), turn away from those sins, and try to become as close to Jesus Christ as we can in this life. He will make up the difference, but we need to show that we want it by doing what he told us to do. It's a two way promise (called a covenant): We do what he told us to do by keeping his commandments, trying to be like him and accepting and utilizing the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and in return, he will grant us a remission of our sins, making us worthy to live in heaven.

I'll just finish with this: I know that Christ is the Son of God because he has told us so. I know that he is my redeemer because of what he did on the cross and what he did in the Garden of Gethsemane. I know that through his atonement, all of everyone can be saved a place in heaven, but only after we reach out our hand to grab his. It wouldn't be fair for us to sit back and give "lip service" without trying to come closer to Him. He reaches for us, but if we don't accept His hand, we won't be saved. If we don't knock, then the door won't be opened and His blessings won't be given to us.

(Since this is the last argument and round, I just want to say that I respect you and your views. You've been a lot kinder than a lot of people I've spoken to about religion. Thanks for making this a good discussion and presenting your points in a respectable way.)
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by drakerspete 9 months ago
drakerspete
Tthompson1995, Are you saying that Mormons worship idols like the golden calf that Aaron made to worship in Moses' time?
Posted by Sensorfire 9 months ago
Sensorfire
I mean, technically, yes, it's certainly a sect of Christianity. That doesn't make it any less cult-ish.
Posted by BJanders96 9 months ago
BJanders96
Thanks for being so kind about it. You'd be surprised how many people think that Mormons aren't Christians... I have spoken to people stating that Mormons are a cult and not Christians.
Posted by VictoriaHutt.16 9 months ago
VictoriaHutt.16
Look buddy....

I think it's pretty obvious that Mormons are Christian... Christianity is a vague term, and there are many branches within Christianity. You can be Catholic, Mormon, Lutheran, Eastern Orthodox, and within those there are smaller branches. Like within Catholicism, you can be Russian catholic, Roman Catholic, etc.

In all, Mormons are Christians. Easy peasy.
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