The Instigator
TheSexicanMexican
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
philosphical
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Are Videogames Art

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
TheSexicanMexican
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/18/2009 Category: Arts
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,035 times Debate No: 7456
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (20)
Votes (2)

 

TheSexicanMexican

Pro

I would like to open up, with the point that I've been hearing that there is a lot of controversy as to the object of video games being a form art.

A definition of art can fall into three parts:
a. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
b. The study of these activities.
c. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.

Video games are very fine examples of art, because they are usually appealing to our sight and hearing. The creators of the games are, yes trying to give us a game to enjoy, but also they are allowed boundless opportunities to use their creativity and imagination, which sounds like art to me.

I would next like to present some examples of gaming "works of art" in terms of graphics and storyline. I saw storyline because a lot of literature is considered art and I see it that a well developed story line of a game is also a key to the game being a true master piece.

Here are some examples.

- The Final Fantasy Series
- Halo Series
- The Legend of Zelda Series
- Mass Effect
- Half-Life 2
- Portal

Just to name some, all these game(s) all have stunning graphics [for their time] and a very gripping plot line. I think that when it comes down to it all, things like Halo 3 and the Mona Lisa have the basic thing that makes art, art. That thing is basic human creativity and intuition for beauty.

I now leave the floor open to a challenger.
philosphical

Con

art: "the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance."

http://dictionary.reference.com...

using the word production in the definition of art, means for it to be productive to the soul and those who view the form of art.

Thus i will be basing this off productivity.

GAMEMAKERS
"but also they are allowed boundless opportunities to use their creativity and imagination, which sounds like art to me."

video games in themselves are not where the creativity and imagination spark from. the creators of the game being the ones who put forth all the creativity are the ones using imagination and creativity.

Such as paintings and soul music can be considered a form of art because of this creativity and imagination that they themselves put into the particular frame of art.
but those who view the art, cannot be said to have used the creativity and imagination, simply by viewing the said artwork.

so the point here is that the game itself does not spark creativity and imagination, however, but the makers of the game art the ones who have used creativity and imagination.

UNPRODUCTIVITY

While the people who made them game used a form of art in making the game by being creative and imaginitive, the game in itself does not provide a form of productivity or, seemingly, a specific influential point.
For example, everything that is considered art has a certain meaning or phase to the the benefit of learning.meaning Every piece of art must have an influential meaning that can be used as pertaining to human life.
Although games like halo and final fantasy did have alot of imagination and creativity used in them and are very fun, they pose no specific point or influential benefits.

when and if a game pertained the the inspiration of mankind other than the destruction of it, it could be used as an example of 'a piece of art'. however this is not the case with games such as in all the games you have listed.

Dont get me wrong, i enjoy playing video games, and i do think they are fun, but i do not beleieve they would fall uner the category of art.

thankyou
-philosophical
Debate Round No. 1
TheSexicanMexican

Pro

Thank you to philosphical for accepting my debate.

Firstly, I would like to point something out.

"GAMEMAKERS
"but also they are allowed boundless opportunities to use their creativity and imagination, which sounds like art to me."

video games in themselves are not where the creativity and imagination spark from. the creators of the game being the ones who put forth all the creativity are the ones using imagination and creativity."

When I stated they are allowed boundless opportunities, they DID refer the game creators, themselves, not the game. I never in any said that the players were artistic for viewing and playing said games.
"While the people who made them game used a form of art in making the game by being creative and imaginitive, the game in itself does not provide a form of productivity or, seemingly, a specific influential point.
For example, everything that is considered art has a certain meaning or phase to the the benefit of learning.meaning Every piece of art must have an influential meaning that can be used as pertaining to human life.
Although games like halo and final fantasy did have alot of imagination and creativity used in them and are very fun, they pose no specific point or influential benefits."

Not all art, in said case, does have meaning. Take for example, the painting called "Cash Crop." This painting is simply a picture of a couple of houses and trees, with rows upon rows of housing areas in the background. Now, don't get me wrong this is a very nice painting, but my opponent says that

", everything that is considered art has a certain meaning or phase to the the benefit of learning. Meaning every piece of art must have an influential meaning that can be used as pertaining to human life."

I don't see how this painting holds any beneficial point or helps humanity learn anything.

"When and if a game pertained to the inspiration of mankind other than the destruction of it, it could be used as an example of 'a piece of art'. however this is not the case with games such as in all the games you have listed."

As you say, that a game is pertained to the inspiration of mankind rather than the destruction of it, that may be true. If you truly think though sometimes disaster brings out the best in us. For example I will take the game "Mass Effect." The main problem is that an army of synthetic robots led by a rouge agent are trying to resurrect an ancient destructive force known only as "the Reapers." As humanity's and probably the galaxy's only hope, you defy the odds. Also take into not that humanity, in game, is very young in the galactic age, and most of the other species revere them as insolent and incompetent. When the Reapers finally attack, though, all the species ban their forces together and take one final stand as one peoples to defy a god. I know that I said not all art has a lesson, but in this case and in many others, both in real life and in video games, it has. In Mass Effect it is that when disaster strikes, it brings out the best in people and sometimes even rivals join forces to do what's right.

Thank you for reading
- TSM
philosphical

Con

ok to start out, my opponent mentioned that the painting "cash crop" does not have a meaning to it. being that this is a semi-famous painting, it holds a certain significance among humanity. alot of times though, the meaning of a certain painting is hidden, and left for the viewer to discover.
for example the painting "cash crop" does actually have a meaning to it, if looked upon it from a wider perspective. here is what another view of the art work "cash crop" analyzed:

the ohio valley is the most productive farmland in the world. This has contributed to the strength and power of Chicago as the Corn Ftures and Commodity of the world. Without compromise, the agriculture strength is depicted in this piece by the background of ten thousand dollar bills. The artist uses rich abundance of vibrant colors to express the relationship of the corn plant to financial wealth.

MY OPPONENT: "In Mass Effect it is that when disaster strikes, it brings out the best in people and sometimes even rivals join forces to do what's right."

This game although is really fun and had alot of creativity put in it, does not help the gamers gain any sense of art. It is put in a fictional sistuation, in which the gamers main goal is to kill the enemy. therefor all the gamer learns from experiencing this game, is that you need to kill, and thats the only moral the gamer will achieve. If the game was really promoting bringing the best out of people, it would focus more on defining the qualities of men and their actions in these situation.

Video games are a good part of life. Alot of times when people are bored or lonely, someone can turn to video games for entertainment. But thats all a video game is, is just an entertainment process. When someone goes to play a videogame they are expecting or hoping to be inspired, just cured of their boredom. therefor you cannot really claim that videogames promote 'art' when the individual doesn't learn anything but killing, or adrenaline rush from a video game.

MY OPPONENT:"I never anywhere said that the players were artistic for viewing and playing said games."

I know this, but that was was only part of the point. People who view, hear, or re-inact an artwork, aren't always artistic themselves. But when they do participate in learning from an art work, they are usually enlightened with the usage of the specific artwork.

Back to what you were saying with the "Cash crop" painting. Even if that painting had no specific meaning, it couldn't be called a piece of art. Every piece of art must have a meaning. you cant just draw a scribble on a piece of paper and call it art. for it to be able to be claimed "art" their must have been creativity and imagination involved in its making AND the viewer must gain a sense of progression and learning from the artwork.

Thankyou TSM for the rebuttal and i look forward to your next.

-philosophical
Debate Round No. 2
TheSexicanMexican

Pro

TheSexicanMexican forfeited this round.
philosphical

Con

forfeit eh? pity, i was looking forward to a good response.
quicly i will re-iterate my points
1. video games are not art because they have no value among society or moral.
2. art is imagination, creativity, and meaning. although games were created with this, the games themselves are not art. the game makers themselves are the ones who deserve the credit.
3. Games are fun. alot of peopl will look at this debate and probably think i am against video games. this is intrue, so please judge off of that. I love video games, but i dont think they quite fall under the category of 'art;.

thankyou, and i look forward to my opponents refute
Debate Round No. 3
TheSexicanMexican

Pro

Ok firstly I would like to say I am sorry that I was unable to post my round 3 debate I had some issues at home which prevented me. Onto the debate.

I would first like to point out that I was also wrong on the "Cash Crop" and that my opponent has some very valid points about it, but when I first glanced at it I didn't even know where it was taking place or it helped with the power of Chicago. Per say, I was a tourist in an art museum and "Cash Crop" was on display I wouldn't really know a lot about it unless I had researched it or there was a brief history next to the display.

My Opponent: "It is put in a fictional sistuation, in which the gamers main goal is to kill the enemy. therefor all the gamer learns from experiencing this game, is that you need to kill, and thats the only moral the gamer will achieve."

This may be so, but if anyone has actually ever played through the whole game, they would know that it does have parts of it that are inspirational, for instance they actual game cutscenes that you CANNOT elude, like at the end when the Reapers attack, all the species on the station ban together in one final stand. (Link at bottom of debate) If that's not even the slightest bit inspirational I don't know what is.

My Opponent: "Back to what you were saying with the "Cash crop" painting. Even if that painting had no specific meaning, it couldn't be called a piece of art. Every piece of art must have a meaning. you cant just draw a scribble on a piece of paper and call it art. for it to be able to be claimed "art" their must have been creativity and imagination involved in its making AND the viewer must gain a sense of progression and learning from the artwork."

I know what my opponent is saying that all art has SOME form of meaning in it, no matter how extravagant like in Starry Night or to something much more subtle as in Mass Effect. The viewer (or in this case gamer) usually does gain some sense of learning I will just run through 2 examples.

1) In Mass Effect, the gamer learns of leadership, choices, and team work. I know that playing the game doesn't make it art, but the fact the developers put that in there because all 3 of those points are a big part of the game and it gives the gamer a sense of leadership.

2) In the game, Legend of Zelda, a gamer learns of heroism, the art of love, and adventure.

This is my final round, I would like to thank philosphical for accepting this debate and for making it such a challenge, I hope, sir, that we dance the battle of debates soon in the future. Thank you for reading, dear viewers, and whomever you vote for, please actually consider this, I wont be telling you to vote Pro because it just may not be your view, just vote on what you really like and dislike, but if you do vote Pro donate a couple points to Con, and I also hope that you will to me if you vote Con.

Again thank you to philosophical for a great debate.

-TSM

Mass Effect Cutscene:
philosphical

Con

thankyou tsm, that was an intriguing response. now to begin :

MY OPPONENT:"Per say, I was a tourist in an art museum and "Cash Crop" was on display I wouldn't really know a lot about it unless I had researched it or there was a brief history next to the display."

this painting, like others, is one that takes times and creative thinking to understand the point. most all of the famous paintings made have secret meanings behind them in which the viewer must analyze and and survey until they have found this. for example, the mona lisa's meaning was not found until someone gave great thought and consideration into the true meaning of the painting, so finding out which both sides of the background signified. death, life, evil, good. etc.

next i am going to combine these two quotes from my opponent because they go along with each other and it will save time rebutting.

MY OPPONENT:"all the species on the station ban together in one final stand. (Link at bottom of debate) If that's not even the slightest bit inspirational I don't know what is." "the gamer learns of leadership, choices, and team work."

do the gamers really learn inspiration, choices leadership, and teamwork? for when someone goes out and buys this game i guarantee you this is not what they are interested in when buying the game. you wouldnt hear some one talking to his friend and saying "lets go buy mass effect because i want to be inspired!" it would probably be more along the lines of "did you hear about the game mass effect? yeah it has tons of cool weapons and bad guys to kill!"

the purpose of these games is for the gamer to kill, and if there was no action whatsoever in the game, i can almost guarantee you know one would buy it. this is why a game can't be considered art. because when some one goes out to buy a video game, they have no desire to learn teamwork. their main goal is to watch cool new graphics, and kill enemies. most the time people skip the cut scenes (if the game lets them) so they can proceed to get on with the violence. because that is truly all video games inspire. if "the legend of zelda, had no action and adventure in it, it would not be as popular as a game it is.

however when going to buy a piece of artwork, an individual is looking for learning and inspiration. when buying an "enya" cd some one is looking forward to be enlightened by the sweet voices, and positive lyrics.

Thankyou TSM this has been one of few debates where i actually enjoyed myself debating.
I would like to thankyou for
1. being a good opponent and staying on topic
2. being curteous to your opponent
3. not making pre-judgement as to the rounds winner like alot of my opponents tend to do
4. not pressuring voters to make a decision against their own will

i would very much enjoy debating with you again.

-philosophical
Debate Round No. 4
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by TheSexicanMexican 8 years ago
TheSexicanMexican
Thank you also philo you made this debate very interesting and a very nice challenge compared to my other opponents. I hope to do battle again with you sir

-TSM
Posted by philosphical 8 years ago
philosphical
thankyou tsm that was really fun. standardly, i usually give my good opponent three points as well as myself. you did a good job debating, and it was really interesting topic.
Posted by TheSexicanMexican 8 years ago
TheSexicanMexican
Also sorry the link didnt post in my argument here it is again for those who wanted to view the cutscene
Posted by philosphical 8 years ago
philosphical
tv, movies are not considered art. the creators of the tv and movies are the artist, seeing as they are the ones who used imagination and creativity. T.V and movie there selves though, hole no form of art. controling a character doesnt make it art
Posted by LoganRuckman 8 years ago
LoganRuckman
Never mind. I can't vote because I don't have a phone.
Posted by LoganRuckman 8 years ago
LoganRuckman
My reasoning is that I think video games should be considered art because 1, tv, movies, and music are considered art, and 2, you control a character instead of just watching a character do whatever and you decide what to do and there are a lot of secrets and you can create a character or level in some games and creating stuff is art and holy run-on sentence!
Posted by philosphical 8 years ago
philosphical
its cool man. and logan whats is your reasoning? just to get this clear everyone, i am not against video games! i love video games. i play them all the time. the topic of this debate is video games aand art. I dont think they fall under the art category. please actually read the debate.
Posted by TheSexicanMexican 8 years ago
TheSexicanMexican
Crap sorry philo i wasnt on got in trouble just post some stuff then we'll finish in round 4 ok
Posted by LoganRuckman 8 years ago
LoganRuckman
Dude, I am voting for TheSexicanMexican!
Posted by TheSexicanMexican 8 years ago
TheSexicanMexican
Then take up the debate
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Vote Placed by TheSexicanMexican 8 years ago
TheSexicanMexican
TheSexicanMexicanphilosphicalTied
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Vote Placed by philosphical 8 years ago
philosphical
TheSexicanMexicanphilosphicalTied
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