The Instigator
Quinoas
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
jdog2016
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Are "Zombies" a possibility?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
jdog2016
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2013 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,238 times Debate No: 31469
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (9)
Votes (3)

 

Quinoas

Pro

I a for the fact that a "Zombie" is a possibility. Below I have put a definition.
"A zombie (Haitian Creole: zonbi; North Mbundu: nzumbe) is an "animated corpse resurrected by mystical means, such as witchcraft". The term is often figuratively applied to describe a hypnotized person bereft of consciousness and self-awareness, yet ambulant and able to respond to surrounding stimuli. Since the late 19th century, zombies have acquired notable popularity, especially in North American and European folklore.

In modern times, the term "zombie" has been applied to an undead being in horror fiction, largely drawn from George A. Romero's 1968 film Night of the Living Dead. They have appeared as plot devices in various books, films, television shows, and video games."

Here are places that "Zombification" has been reported.
Africa
West

According to the tenets of Vodou, a dead person can be revived by a bokor, or sorcerer. Zombies remain under the control of the bokor since they have no will of their own. "Zombi" is also another name of the Vodou snake lwa Damballah Wedo, of Niger"Congo origin; it is akin to the Kikongo word nzambi, which means "god". There also exists within the West African Vodun tradition the zombi astral, which is a part of the human soul that is captured by a bokor and used to enhance the bokor's power. The zombi astral is typically kept inside a bottle which the bokor can sell to clients for luck, healing or business success. It is believed that after a time God will take the soul back and so the zombi is a temporary spiritual entity. It is also said in vodou legend, that feeding a zombie salt will make it return to the grave.
South

The idea of zombies is present in some South African cultures. In some communities it is believed that a dead person can be turned into a zombie by a small child. It is said that the spell can be broken by a powerful enough sangoma.

It is also believed in some areas that witches can turn a person into a zombie by killing and possessing the victim's body in order to force it into slave labor. After rail lines were built to transport migrant workers, stories emerged about "witch trains". These trains appeared ordinary, but were staffed by zombie workers controlled by a witch. The trains would abduct a person boarding at night, and the person would then either be turned into a zombie worker, or beaten and thrown from the train a distance away from the original location.
Haiti

In 1937, while researching folklore in Haiti, Zora Neale Hurston encountered the case of a woman who appeared in a village, and a family claimed she was Felicia Felix-Mentor, a relative who had died and been buried in 1907 at the age of 29. However, the woman had been examined by a doctor, who found on X-ray that she did not have the leg fracture that Felix-Mentor was known to have had. Hurston pursued rumors that the affected persons were given a powerful psychoactive drug, but she was unable to locate individuals willing to offer much information. She wrote: "What is more, if science ever gets to the bottom of Voodoo in Haiti and Africa, it will be found that some important medical secrets, still unknown to medical science, give it its power, rather than gestures of ceremony."

Several decades later, Wade Davis, a Harvard ethnobotanist, presented a pharmacological case for zombies in two books, The Serpent and the Rainbow (1985) and Passage of Darkness: The Ethnobiology of the Haitian Zombie (1988). Davis traveled to Haiti in 1982 and, as a result of his investigations, claimed that a living person can be turned into a zombie by two special powders being introduced into the blood stream (usually via a wound). The first, coup de poudre (French: "powder strike"), includes tetrodotoxin (TTX), a powerful and frequently fatal neurotoxin found in the flesh of the pufferfish (order Tetraodontidae). The second powder consists of dissociative drugs such as datura. Together, these powders were said to induce a deathlike state in which the will of the victim would be entirely subjected to that of the bokor. Davis also popularized the story of Clairvius Narcisse, who was claimed to have succumbed to this practice.

The process described by Davis was an initial state of deathlike suspended animation, followed by re-awakening " typically after being buried " into a psychotic state. The psychosis induced by the drug and psychological trauma was hypothesised by Davis to re-inforce culturally learned beliefs and to cause the individual to reconstruct their identity as that of a zombie, since they "knew" they were dead, and had no other role to play in the Haitian society. Societal reinforcement of the belief was hypothesized by Davis to confirm for the zombie individual the zombie state, and such individuals were known to hang around in graveyards, exhibiting attitudes of low affect.

Davis's claim has been criticized, particularly the suggestion that Haitian witch doctors can keep "zombies" in a state of pharmacologically induced trance for many years. Symptoms of TTX poisoning range from numbness and nausea to paralysis " particularly of the muscles of the diaphragm " unconsciousness, and death, but do not include a stiffened gait or a deathlike trance. According to psychologist Terence Hines, the scientific community dismisses tetrodotoxin as the cause of this state, and Davis' assessment of the nature of the reports of Haitian zombies is viewed as overly credulous.

Scottish psychiatrist R. D. Laing highlighted the link between social and cultural expectations and compulsion, in the context of schizophrenia and other mental illness, suggesting that schizogenesis may account for some of the psychological aspects of zombification.

Slaves brought to Haiti in the 17th and 18th centuries, believed that when they died, Baron Samedi would gather them from their grave to bring them to heaven, unless they had offended him in some way, such as committing suicide, in which case they'd be forever a slave after death, as a zombie.

These are my first set of facts and ways they can exist.
jdog2016

Con

First off, I would like to say that you got about 90% of you info online(copy paste). -http://en.wikipedia.org...

-Now, for my argument

A zombie is not possible for many reasons. This is just one of them, and it is that if a person died and somehow their basic bodily functions were still intact, such as brain or heart, then gases from decaying internal organs would cause the "zombie", to expand until they burst from pressure. It would literally explode. Also, a zombie is supposed to eat human flesh right? Nope! Because they are dead, their digestive system would not work, making it impossible to consume anything. Last, if a zombie apocalypse, or even a zombie were possible, it would have already happened. Think about it. You say that in folklore zombies were largely thought to be resurrected by a witch or sorcerer, rather than infected by some sort of virus. Well, if that was indeed the case, then there was a billion time more "magic", and "witches" back then compared to now. I say that if a zombie were possible, it would have happened long ago, however it didn't obviously, therefor I conclude it is physically and scientifically implausible for such a thing to occur.
Debate Round No. 1
Quinoas

Pro

I will disprove you claims and state more claims.

"This is just one of them, and it is that if a person died and somehow their basic bodily functions were still intact, such as brain or heart, then gases from decaying internal organs would cause the "zombie", to expand until they burst from pressure. It would literally explode."

That is not true the internal gasses would escape out of the decaying body, therefore it would not explode.Now to point two.
"Also, a zombie is supposed to eat human flesh right? Nope! Because they are dead, their digestive system would not work, making it impossible to consume anything."

That is just a myth a "Zombie" can just be a reanimated corpse it doesn't need to eat flesh. Now to your finnal point.

"Last, if a zombie apocalypse, or even a zombie were possible, it would have already happened. Think about it. You say that in folklore zombies were largely thought to be resurrected by a witch or sorcerer, rather than infected by some sort of virus. Well, if that was indeed the case, then there was a billion time more "magic", and "witches" back then compared to now. I say that if a zombie were possible, it would have happened long ago, however it didn't obviously, therefor I conclude it is physically and scientifically implausible for such a thing to occur."

One more theory is that a man-made virus like the one from Resident evil 5 could be made.

And now to my facts. On the site I have posted a link to a senerio that a "Zombie" outbreak could happen.

http://io9.com...

And that is what I will present for this round of evidence.
jdog2016

Con

During round 2, you gave no evidence to support your theory, all you did was contradict what I stated in the previous round. Also, again(just like the first round), you got all of you supporting detail from an outside source.
-http://io9.com...

When someone or something dies, the heart stops pumping blood, thus suffocating all organs inside of the body. As soon as the internal organs loose their necessary oxygen, they no longer function. Because the brain of the victim has also been suffocated due to heart failure, it is impossible to revive any of the other internal organs. Basically, once the brain goes, there is absolutely 0% of resurrection, or "zomifying". Now you may say "what is you brought someone back before their brain shut off for good"? The answer is that you can't bring someone back from the dead if their brain is still functioning, because they are not dead yet. This proves that it is scientifically impossible for a zombie to occur. I mean look at this way if were so advanced in sience, why are their so many diease their are no cures for. And yet, you want a cure to death? It seems a bit out of reach doesn't it?
Debate Round No. 2
Quinoas

Pro

I have forgot the name but a rare type of wasp can sting a dead be and it will become a form of "Zombie" because it died and was resurrected from the dead.
Another way is " Zombie" can just me living dead if a person died and was brought back to life through a defibrillator then him or her would be a technical "Zombie"
I apologize for an outside source in round 2 and I would like to say that I put definitions in the first round to explain that I was not talking about plain horror movie zombies.
And last the theory of a "Bokor" (A person that claims to be able to bring people back to life.) it is said they use Zombie Cucumber also know as Datura Stramonium.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

And the poison of a pufferfish also known as Tetraodontidae.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I have been to many lecurs and debates about it.

Here is proof that the Tetrodontidae can be used in "Zombie Powder"

http://science.howstuffworks.com...

Please look at the links and tell me what you think.
jdog2016

Con

"Doctors have also documented cases in which people ingested tetrodotoxin and appeared dead but eventually made a complete recovery."

In one of you links,(http://science.howstuffworks.com...) it said the quote above. However, afer reading through your entire link, none of the people who take the Tetraodontidae venom ever die, they only appear dead. Therefor it is impossible for them to be reserected without first having died.

Debate Round No. 3
Quinoas

Pro

"Doctors have also documented cases in which people ingested tetrodotoxin and appeared dead but eventually made a complete recovery." In one of you links,(http://science.howstuffworks.com......) it said the quote above. However, afer reading through your entire link, none of the people who take the Tetraodontidae venom ever die, they only appear dead. Therefor it is impossible for them to be reserected without first having died."
They die when the poison is mixed with something else I forgot what it was but its from the amazons and the a form of black magic and Datura Stramonium are used to resurrect them and then the Bokor has the "Zombie" under there control. Datura Stramonium has been used to bring people out of comas and is being tested by scientist about bringing back from the dead.

About the link ~http://io9.com...... One time I posted all the twighlight movies.
jdog2016

Con

So your argument is a that this venom kills people, and then they are resurected by a sorceror who uses dark magic?Doesn't seem very lagitimate to me, but I suppose that is merely my oppinion. Let me just say that im pretty sure it is impossible. (to resurect someone with Datura Stramonium, and black magic).

Here is a religiouse reflection on the issue,

"no amount of science can help you rise from the grave whether it 10sec. or 15 years later cause only God can decide whether you live or die, once your times up it's up" I think most people would agree with this quote.

- http://answers.yahoo.com...

Debate Round No. 4
Quinoas

Pro

This has been a fair debate but if "Dark Magic" exists than "Zombies" can too. So we end our Debate this round is to say why you should win. "May the odds be ever in your favor"
I should win because my factor follow science and have evidence to back them up.
And one thing I would like to say is that not all corpses the organs and brain are decomposed.
Thank you for debating this topic.
jdog2016

Con

Thank you for thanking me. I really enjoyed this debate. At first I thought this debate would be funny, however I was pleasently surprised at how intelectual and scientific it proved to be.

I belive both me and my opponent had very good thoughts on this subject. While I deeply respect what my opponent has to say, I still belive that scientificaly, making a living thinking being from a dead corps is impossible. And as a side note, I also do not belive in black magic, or witch craft.
Now, if anyone agrees with me, that zombies are impossible, I would deeply apreciate your vote. I belive that all my statements were well said, and had evidence to back them up.

It has been a pleasure.

-JDoG
Debate Round No. 5
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by likespeace 3 years ago
likespeace
> Copy and paste suck when it is in a debate.

Yup, plagiarism is a no-no on this site. Properly attributing words that are not your own via quotes and/or citations can be important if your goal is to win debates.
Posted by jdog2016 3 years ago
jdog2016
yes justin.graves, however that does not categorize as a zombie because the thing you describe does not involve a person actually fully dying, and then being "brought back to life". It is merely drugging someone and then tricking the victim into thinking they are a zombie.
Posted by justin.graves 3 years ago
justin.graves
Zombies are real, I've been to Haiti before. The people there give their enemies a drug that makes them look dead. The person is buried alive, but the person digs them up, puts them on a different drug, and keeps them in a diminished cognitive state as a slave. Truth is stranger than fiction.
Posted by jdog2016 3 years ago
jdog2016
I love zombie movies LOL
Posted by Quinoas 3 years ago
Quinoas
One thing is that the brain could not have been damaged that why in all Zombie movies they say "Go for their head hats the only way to kill them."
Posted by dont-out-of-line.1 3 years ago
dont-out-of-line.1
Copy and paste suck when it is in a debate.
Posted by jdog2016 3 years ago
jdog2016
But that's my point, once a brain goes, it is 100% impossible to reanimate it. It will stay dead and unmoving forever, no matter what.
Posted by swimmergal 3 years ago
swimmergal
Oh man....this is interesting
Posted by Noswad63 3 years ago
Noswad63
Imagine an Advanced form of Rabies, or another virus that could re-animate the brain, also zombies don't consume things to actually digest them, its because the brain was re-animated and only follows simple instincts like the will to hunt kill and eat.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by xXCryptoXx 3 years ago
xXCryptoXx
Quinoasjdog2016Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: "F.F. by Pro for plagiarizing his first round, as pointed out by Con. Not cool!"(1) (1) http://www.debate.org/debates/Are-Zombies-a-possibility/1/ And that is how you do NOT plagiarize.
Vote Placed by likespeace 3 years ago
likespeace
Quinoasjdog2016Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: F.F. by Pro for plagiarizing his first round, as pointed out by Con. Not cool!
Vote Placed by x2MuzioPlayer 3 years ago
x2MuzioPlayer
Quinoasjdog2016Tied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: I won't endorse plagiarism. Pro clearly plagiarized his first round, so I give conduct to Con. The substance of the debate is irrelevant; plagiarism comes first.