The Instigator
davidtaylorjr
Con (against)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
Magicr
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points

Are homosexual marriages, really marriages?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Magicr
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/6/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,088 times Debate No: 25026
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (4)

 

davidtaylorjr

Con

The question is simple.

Definitions:

Homosexual: Man with Man or Woman with Woman

Marriage: The joining of two to become one.

Round 1: Acceptance Only

Rounds 2-3 Are for Arguments and rebuttals.
Magicr

Pro

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
davidtaylorjr

Con

First I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate. As this is an extremely hot topic, I know we will have a spirited debate, but I look forward to a professional debate as well.

I would like to say that I am against homosexual marriages. Marriage was instuted by God when He created Adam and Eve. This is how we are designed. Man and Woman. (See the Book of Genesis)

In marriage we become one with each other by joining our bodies together in a way that was naturally intended of the reproductive organs. Homosexual couples cannot take part in this joining.

It is not my argument that homosexual couples should not receive benefits, I would have to agree that is not fair or equal, but I cannot call it a marriage.

Even the definition from major dictionaries defines marriage as follows:

mar·riage/ˈmarij/
Noun:
  1. The formal union of a man and a woman, typically recognized by law, by which they become husband and wife.
https://www.google.com...

With these factors kept in mind, I do not believe that we can consider a homosexual couple as candidates for marriage as it does not fit the criteria of one man and one woman.
Magicr

Pro

Let's jump right in:

"Marriage was instituted by God when He created Adam and Eve. This is how we are designed. Man and Woman. (See the Book of Genesis)."

My opponent makes the claim that marriage was instituted by God in Genesis. If he is going to use the Bible as a source, he must confirm its validity as a source. Also, if he's going to claim God did something, he must explain why it should be accepted that God exists. Saying something happened in the Bible is not solid logic at all.

"In marriage we become one with each other by joining our bodies together in a way that was naturally intended of the reproductive organs. Homosexual couples cannot take part in this joining."

If the joining referred to in R1 refers only to vaginal sex, then are two people who engage in vaginal sex automatically married because they have been "joined"? Of course not. Marriage goes beyond sex.

Also, what if someone has a condition that prevents them from having sex- should they not be allowed to get married because they can't "join"? Of course not.

Third, my opponent claims that this was "naturally intended." Things in nature are not intended to be used a certain way.

My opponent says he is using the definition from "major dictionaries" but is really only using Google dictionary. Let's see what the good old Merriam Webster has to say about the matter:

Marriage- (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage.

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

Would ya look at that! Same sex marriage is also marriage.

"With these factors kept in mind, I do not believe that we can consider a homosexual couple as candidates for marriage as it does not fit the criteria of one man and one woman."

My opponent has failed to demonstrate why marriage must be between a man and a woman only. Therefore, there is no reason not to consider homosexual marriages as marriages.

Back to you, Con.





Debate Round No. 2
davidtaylorjr

Con

I would actually say that the burden of proof that the Bible is false would fall on my opponent. There is no evidence to disprove the Bible, it is sound and secure, written by God Himself through inspiration.

If marriage was not instituted in Genesis, where would my opponent claim it began?

I stated that as a result of marriage we become one. So yes I agree, marriage goes beyond sex.

How are things in nature not intended to be used in a natural way? Please explain.

As far as the dictionaries go, the Google dictionary listed many other dictionaries below if you follow the link.
When was the definition of same sex marriage added to these dictionaries? It has only been in recent years due to being "politically correct" not because there was proof that it should be changed.

I would encourage my opponent to give some solid evidence as to why it should be defined as marriage which they have failed to do.
Magicr

Pro

"I would actually say that the burden of proof that the Bible is false would fall on my opponent. There is no evidence to disprove the Bible, it is sound and secure, written by God Himself through inspiration."

This commits the fallacy of Begging the Question or circular reasoning:

The Bible is true. How do we know the Bible is true? Because the Bible says it is true.

Tthe BoP is not on me to show that the tooth fairy does not exist. It is on you to show that the tooth fairy does exist. There is no evidence that Santa Clause does not exist.

"I stated that as a result of marriage we become one. So yes I agree, marriage goes beyond sex."

If we take the sex part out of the picture, a gay marriage functions the same way as a straight marriage. It is the same thing, except for the sexes of the people involved.

"How are things in nature not intended to be used in a natural way? Please explain."

Nothing in nature is intended. Things in nature evolve a certain way.

Also, is it intended by nature for us to cut our hair or to shave?

Words:

Marriage is a word like any other. There is no fundamental truth concerning what marriage is. It is whatever people deem it to be. Because today's society has opened up the possibility for marriage to go beyond a man and a woman, the definition of marriage changes. In today's society, gay marriages are really marriages. It is as simple as that.

The reason the definition of marriage needs/needed to be changed is because of equality. It is not right to deny someone the right to marry who they want to marry on the basis of sexual orientation. This freedom of choice is fundamental in maintaining strong democracy.

Conclusion:

The BoP is on the Bible to prove its truth, not the other way around. My opponent has not proven the Bible's truth, therefore, that part of his argument may be discarded.

Marriage was agreed to be the joining of two to become one. My opponent provided no reason beyond the Biblical reason, that two people of the same sex cannot join to become won.

I thank my opponent for this debate.

Vote Pro!

Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Magicr 4 years ago
Magicr
Not ridiculous. What is ridiculous was abstractposters's RFD.
Posted by davidtaylorjr 4 years ago
davidtaylorjr
Someone voted just to counter another users vote? Ridiculous.
Posted by davidtaylorjr 4 years ago
davidtaylorjr
Well that is where we differ, it is historically documented that Adam and Eve were the first married couple, the marriage performed by God.

Evolution is a false theory for the start of humanity.
Posted by Magicr 4 years ago
Magicr
Nobody "created" marriage. It evolved form early humans having partners to a more official practice of marriage.
Posted by davidtaylorjr 4 years ago
davidtaylorjr
How it was instituted is the entire point. The creators of marriage define marriage.
Posted by Magicr 4 years ago
Magicr
How marriage was instituted is irrelevant.
Posted by davidtaylorjr 4 years ago
davidtaylorjr
I would like to thank my opponent for a good debate, though he never offered a counter to when marriage was instituted if it was not in Genesis.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by TheHitchslap 4 years ago
TheHitchslap
davidtaylorjrMagicrTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: See orator RFD
Vote Placed by TheOrator 4 years ago
TheOrator
davidtaylorjrMagicrTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Con dropped teh majority of Pro's arguments, and as a whole Pro showed that Con's basis for a marriage was flawed.
Vote Placed by ConservativePolitico 4 years ago
ConservativePolitico
davidtaylorjrMagicrTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter VB abstract
Vote Placed by abstractposters 4 years ago
abstractposters
davidtaylorjrMagicrTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: I have witnessed the genealogy from Adam and Eve with my own four eyes and ears.