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shakuntala
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Bruinshockeyfan
Con (against)
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Are mystical theology and science similar

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/7/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,085 times Debate No: 35353
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
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shakuntala

Pro

This work argues Are mystical theology and science similar

http://www.scribd.com...
quote
" For the physicist Bohr language is a barrier to understanding reality Dante like Lao Tzu, Pseudo-Dionysius St Augustine (354-430), St Thomas Aquinas (1225-74) Zen and many forms of Eastern mysticism knew the simultaneous inapplicability and inevitability of human language when talking of reality or God and his attributes and domains. "
Bruinshockeyfan

Con

No, theyre not related. Science is based on logic and fact. Mystical theology isn't.

Also i cant post links on here because im using my ipad.
Debate Round No. 1
shakuntala

Pro

you say
"No, theyre not related. Science is based on logic and fact. Mystical theology isn't."

they are still saying thing

Zajak notes "particles and waves are macroscopic concepts which gradually lose their relevance as we approach the submicroscopic domain."

Bohr quoted in A, Wick, The Infamous Boundary, Birkhauser Berlin, 1995, p.33.
"The very words physicists use to describe reality constrains their knowledge of it and scientists in every field will one day encounter this barrier to human understanding"

"In regard to the paradoxes and contradictions of quantum theory Wick state the orthodox view when he says "here my opinion of the orthodox quantum mechanics, like Bohr, comes down to the meaning of words. "Classical" and "complementarity", insult and commendation, are euphemisms; the belief concealed is that Nature has been found in a contradiction. But quantum physicists are not simpletons. In their hearts they know such a claim is philosophically unacceptable and would be rejected in other sciences."
Wick notes " I believe orthodox quantum theorists [slates] reason, consciously or unconsciously, something like this. The microscopic world exhibits paradoxes or contradictions and this fact is reflected in the best theory describing it.""A. Wick, The Infamous Boundary, Birkhauser, Berlin, 1995, p.183.

"Nicholas of Cusa states "" needful to enter the darkness and to admit the coincidence of opposites beyond all grasp of reason " [God] art found unveiled is girt around with the coincidence of contradictories " the door whereof is guarded by the most proud spirit if reason and unless he be vanquished the way in will not lie open""F. C. Happold, Mysticism, Penguin, 1984, p. 336

Pseudo-Dionysius: sates
"As we climb higher we say [The supreme Cause] is not soul or mind nor does it possess imagination conviction speech or understanding. Nor is it speech per se understanding per se. It cannot be spoken of and it cannot be grasped by understanding.C, Luibhed & P, Rorem ( ed and trans) Mystical Theology 1045D-1048A in Pseudo-Dionysius: The Complete Works, New York, Paulist Press, 1987, p.106.
Bruinshockeyfan

Con

Bruinshockeyfan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
shakuntala

Pro

seeing con did not reply to round 2 that seems then I win
Bruinshockeyfan

Con

Bruinshockeyfan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Bruinshockeyfan 4 years ago
Bruinshockeyfan
Sorry i forfited. I was on vacation with no wifi.
Posted by shakuntala 4 years ago
shakuntala
you say
"Most of those facts are wrong. Taking Aquinas: he said that language was applicable to God repeatedly, Lao Tzu believed that language was perfectly applicable to God, and Pseudo-Dionysius claimed only that speaking univocally of God was impossible as he was ineffible: language had its place, mostly in poetry, like The Cloud of Unknowing. Cite each individual who claimed this."

you say
"Most of those facts are wrong"

Bohr quoted in A, Wick, The Infamous Boundary, Birkhauser Berlin, 1995, p.33.
"The very words physicists use to describe reality constrains their knowledge of it and scientists in every field will one day encounter this barrier to human understanding"

"Lao Tzu believed that language was perfectly applicable to God,"
Quote John C H Wu Tao Te Ching
1
Tao can be talked about but not the Eternal Tao
Names can be named but not the Eternal Name
As the origin of Heaven -and-Earth it is nameless

C, Luibhed & P, Rorem ( ed and trans) Mystical Theology 1045D-1048A in Pseudo-Dionysius: The Complete Works, New York, Paulist Press, 1987, p.106.

"As we climb higher we say [The supreme Cause] is not soul or mind nor does it possess imagination conviction speech or understanding. Nor is it speech per se understanding per se. It cannot be spoken of and it cannot be grasped by understanding."

"
"Dante could have learned from St Augustine (354-430) as from St Thomas Aquinas (1225-74) about the simultaneous inapplicability and inevitability of such "human terms" and specifically of physical language and imagery when talking of God his attributes and domains. "C, Ricks, Dante in English, Penguin, 2005, p.Li

Dante
"Beatrice " . .it is only from what is taken in by your senses that you can form notions suitable to your intellect," ( Paradiso, 4.41-5)"

"Beatrice"s caution about extending human concepts beyond the horizon of sense-experience in which we learn them applies not only to such terms as "long" "white" and "beard" but- mo
Posted by shakuntala 4 years ago
shakuntala
you say
"Most of those facts are wrong"

Bohr quoted in A, Wick, The Infamous Boundary, Birkhauser Berlin, 1995, p.33.
"The very words physicists use to describe reality constrains their knowledge of it and scientists in every field will one day encounter this barrier to human understanding"

"Lao Tzu believed that language was perfectly applicable to God,"
Quote John C H Wu Tao Te Ching
1
Tao can be talked about but not the Eternal Tao
Names can be named but not the Eternal Name
As the origin of Heaven -and-Earth it is nameless
Posted by shakuntala 4 years ago
shakuntala
you say

"Lao Tzu believed that language was perfectly applicable to God,"
Quote John C H Wu Tao Te Ching
1
Tao can be talked about but not the Eternal Tao
Names can be named but not the Eternal Name
As the origin of Heaven -and-Earth it is nameless
Posted by shakuntala 4 years ago
shakuntala
you say
"Lao Tzu believed that language was perfectly applicable to God,"

qoute Waley Tao Te Ching

"The Way that can be told is not the Unvarying Way
Names that can be Named are not the Unvarying names
It was from the Nameless that heaven and Earth sprang"
Posted by Torvald 4 years ago
Torvald
I would accept this if the Pro were not stoned or something.
Posted by Luggs 4 years ago
Luggs
I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to have a source argue for you.
Posted by Stephen_Hawkins 4 years ago
Stephen_Hawkins
Most of those facts are wrong. Taking Aquinas: he said that language was applicable to God repeatedly, Lao Tzu believed that language was perfectly applicable to God, and Pseudo-Dionysius claimed only that speaking univocally of God was impossible as he was ineffible: language had its place, mostly in poetry, like The Cloud of Unknowing. Cite each individual who claimed this.

Also, as this is another terribly written if not flat out false article on a subject by Colin Leslie Prat, I am assuming this is a spammer account?
Posted by shakuntala 4 years ago
shakuntala
you say
"Please define how similar you're arguing."
i gave you the quote
now
if you are not going to read the work then you want get the point of the work- up to you
Posted by johnlubba 4 years ago
johnlubba
It depends on which mythical theology you are talking about.
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