The Instigator
ManOfLogic
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Mike-the-wise-guy
Con (against)
Winning
17 Points

Are rape, murder, and slavery allowed in the Bible?

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Post Voting Period
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after 4 votes the winner is...
Mike-the-wise-guy
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/14/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 931 times Debate No: 56617
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (4)

 

ManOfLogic

Pro

RULES:

Opening arguments in round one, rebuttals and further arguments in round two, closing arguments and rebuttals in round 3.

In the Bible, several instances of rape, murder, and even slavery are allowed by the Christian God, Yahweh, to happen. I am not a Christian, nor do I claim to be, but these are from the Christian holy book known as the Bible. If you do not believe that these passages are real, open a Bible and look for them.

For example, the following passages from the Bible attest to this. "However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." Leviticus 25: 44-46.

On a side note, this passage from Exodus details how the Hebrew slaves were to be treated. "If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever." Exodus 21: 2-6.

The following passage from Exodus goes on to describe sex slavery. "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment." Exodus 21: 7-11

Horrible, right? And to make matters worse, here is another passage from Exodus detailing the rules for beating a slave. "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." Exodus 21: 20:21

Christians argue that this is the Old Testament, that the New Testament does not condone things this vile. Unfortunately, this passages from Ephesians and Timothy say differently. "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." Ephesians 6:5. "Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them." 1 Timothy 6: 1-2.

Lastly, this passage from Luke describes how Christ encourages beating slaves, even if they did not know they were doing wrong. "The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." Luke 12: 47-48.

Continuing on to murder, there are more than twenty examples I could give, but I will only give four. If you would like more, check my sources at the end of my argument and they will give you the full list.

Our first example of murder being condoned in the Bible can be found all over the Old Testament, unfortunately most of which are debatable, because different people have different views on if homosexuality is moral, if people should be allowed to not believe in a different god, etc., but this shows a lack of tolerance. (As does believing that people should not be allowed to believe in other gods) This particular passage comes from Deuteronomy, stating that if one person in a town worships a different god, the whole town is to be destroyed. "Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." Deuteronomy 13: 13-19.

Our second and third examples of murder in the Bible describe God killing children for unimportant reasons. This example from Isaiah is straight forward, it says that if someone sins, their son is to be killed, no matter how God fearing or innocent the son is. "Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants." Isaiah 14: 21

The third example from Hosea says that God will come down to Israel and kill all the children to stop population growth. "The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." Hosea 9: 11-16

Our last example of murder is a horrible and disturbing one, stating that Sampson, a man standing trial for 30 murders, was saved by God because God killed 1,000 men. The 30 murders are not in this example, but read further back and you will find them. "When he reached Lehi, and the Philistines came shouting to meet him, the spirit of the Lord came upon him: the ropes around his arms become as flax that is consumed by fire and the bonds melted away from his hands. Near him was the fresh jawbone of a donkey; (the other word, I cannot use profanities) he reached out, grasped it, and with it killed a thousand men." Judges 15: 14-15

Now, we start showing examples of rape. I will give three examples, purely because of limited characters, but they should suffice. Again, if you want to read the other seven examples, go to the end of my argument where I cite my sources.

The first example is from Deuteronomy and can be called a triple-whammy as it tackles child slavery, murder and rape. "As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you." Deuteronomy 20: 10-14

The next example is disturbing, just read it, pretty straight forward. "If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deuteronomy 22: 28-29

Lastly, this example shows the cruelty of God. "If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife." Deuteronomy 22: 23-24.

I hope my examples have been sufficient to convince you, but I'm sure there will be those who tell me because I am an athiest I can't understand the Bible, (ad hominem) but there are many more.

My sources: http://www.evilbible.com... My only real source, but it lists every example and passage you can find it in that you need to know about
Mike-the-wise-guy

Con

"The Bible does address the issue of rape. As expected, when the Bible mentions the crime of rape, it is depicted as a gross violation of God"s design for the treatment of the human body (Genesis 34). The Bible condemns rape whenever it is mentioned. For example, there is a particular passage in the laws given to the nation of Israel before entering the Promised Land under Joshua"s leadership. This passage (Deuteronomy 22:13-29) spoke directly against forcing a woman into a sexual encounter against her will, or what we know today as rape. This command was meant to protect women and to protect the nation of Israel from committing sinful actions.

Deuteronomy 22:25-27 mentioned the punishment the Mosaic Law commanded for a man who raped a woman. The man was to be killed by stoning while the woman was considered innocent. Though the Mosaic Law was for the nation of Israel during the time of Moses, the principle is clear that rape was sinful in the eyes of God and led to the most extreme punishment possible"death for the rapist.

There are some difficult passages in the Old Testament, however, in relation to this issue. Critics of the Bible are quick to point to Numbers 31 (and other similar passages) in which the Israelites were allowed to take female captives from nations they conquered. Critics make the accusation that this is an example of the Bible condoning, or even promoting, rape. However, the passage says nothing about raping the captive women. It is wrong to assume that the captive women were to be raped. Again, Deuteronomy 22:25-27 condemns rape, even advocating the death penalty for perpetrators of rape. In the Numbers 31 passage the soldiers were commanded to purify themselves and their captives (verse 19). Rape would have violated this command (see Leviticus 15:16-18). The women who were taken captive are never referred to as sexual objects. Did the captive women likely eventually marry amongst the Israelites? Yes. Is there any indication that rape or sex slavery was forced upon the women? Absolutely not."
- http://www.gotquestions.org...

Please look at this link regarding murder in the Bible: http://www.gotquestions.org...

There is a tendency to look at slavery as something of the past. But it is estimated that there are today over 27 million people in the world who are subject to slavery: forced labor, sex trade, inheritable property, etc. As those who have been redeemed from the slavery of sin, followers of Jesus Christ should be the foremost champions of ending human slavery in the world today. The question arises, though, why does the Bible not speak out strongly against slavery? Why does the Bible, in fact, seem to support the practice of human slavery?

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was based more on economics; it was a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible condemns race-based slavery in that it teaches that all men are created by God and made in His image (Genesis 1:27). At the same time, the Old Testament did allow for economic-based slavery and regulated it. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of "man-stealing," which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: "Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death" (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are "ungodly and sinful" and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8"10).
Another crucial point is that the purpose of the Bible is to point the way to salvation, not to reform society. The Bible often approaches issues from the inside out. If a person experiences the love, mercy, and grace of God by receiving His salvation, God will reform his soul, changing the way he thinks and acts. A person who has experienced God"s gift of salvation and freedom from the slavery of sin, as God reforms his soul, will realize that enslaving another human being is wrong. He will see, with Paul, that a slave can be "a brother in the Lord" (Philemon 1:16). A person who has truly experienced God"s grace will in turn be gracious towards others. That would be the Bible"s prescription for ending slavery.

- http://www.gotquestions.org...
Debate Round No. 1
ManOfLogic

Pro

ManOfLogic forfeited this round.
Mike-the-wise-guy

Con

My opponent has failed to provide any arguments besides his one from evilbible.com. I have addressed all of those arguments and more. I don't believe it should be counted as a reliable source sense it's sole purpose is to make the Bible look "evil" or bad.
Debate Round No. 2
ManOfLogic

Pro

ManOfLogic forfeited this round.
Mike-the-wise-guy

Con

I rest my case.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
The debate was getting interesting.
Con's fallacies concerning the Bible passages would have been easy pickings for Pro.
Guess I'll have to look and hope for a better debate on this topic.
Posted by Mike-the-wise-guy 2 years ago
Mike-the-wise-guy
I accepted by mistake... I can debate now though.
Posted by ManOfLogic 2 years ago
ManOfLogic
Ok, so 16kadams, Do you want to debate? because the guy im opposing isnt going to be able to. also, how do i cancel a debate?
Posted by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
tbh slavery is the only argument I would have trouble arguing with if I accepted this debate. Rape is the easiest to debunk. Murder, a bit more complex. As for slavery, although the bible wasn't anti slavery, it wasn't really for it either. And when it was mentioned, it always spoke highly of the slave and prohibited human trafficking (slave trade).
Posted by ManOfLogic 2 years ago
ManOfLogic
No offence, but if you can't debate until tuesday, why did you accept...
Posted by Mike-the-wise-guy 2 years ago
Mike-the-wise-guy
No I don't believe it does, but you might want to cancel this debate, because I won't have time to debate until Tuesday. I will gladly debate you about this then though.
Posted by ManOfLogic 2 years ago
ManOfLogic
Sorry, I forgot to ask, do you believe the Bible condones these things or not?
Posted by Mike_10-4 2 years ago
Mike_10-4
Out of the top Debate.org categories, Politics and Religion, are the two hot topics respectively, where Science coming in on a distant eight.

We should focus more on Science when trying to understand Politics and Religion. See my recent debates:

http://www.debate.org...

http://www.debate.org...
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
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Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.
Vote Placed by Sagey 2 years ago
Sagey
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Reasons for voting decision: Con got a conduct point for Pro's forfeit, though argument wise they were a draw.
Vote Placed by mishapqueen 2 years ago
mishapqueen
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro only used one source and forfeited two rounds. I felt that Con adequately explained his points, and used multiple sources and logic.