The Instigator
atjacobmajor
Pro (for)
Winning
5 Points
The Contender
bond_jamesbond101
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Are the American Ghettos a Fixable Problem?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
atjacobmajor
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/25/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 365 times Debate No: 104137
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

atjacobmajor

Pro

Hey this is simple, just debate against my simple plan here:

1. Promote and provide free IUD's for young women so the don't get pregnant
2. Provide free, or finically aidable (work grants, etc.) colleges, at least on the technical level.
3. Provide an after school program where kids can hang out, dance, and play sports, similar to the "midnight basketball" program to keep kids off the streets and away from their households, if dangerous.

Why do you think this or something else wouldn't work. Also, please keep it friendly and give relatively detailed and backed up argument. Don't just state you're opinions and leave. Thanks! Look forward to debating.
bond_jamesbond101

Con

I accept your debate. Since my partner did not define what ghetto means i will be doing it myself. The definition of ghetto is a part of the city, especially a slum area, occupied by a minority group or groups. So its not just about the culture, its about the physical location. In order to fix the ghetto you would have to knock down, rebuild, and renovate buildings which would cost billions. Also you talked about how we should have after school programs for kids in order to keep them off the streets, but what about adults? How are we going to keep them off the streets? Also you talked about providing free or affordable college, trying to do that will be impossible. There are approximately 4,168 colleges in the united states. I think it would be very hard for a government that has to deal with hurricane relief and keeping this country safe and are currently 20,174,956,126,564 dollars in debt to pay for 4,168 colleges. That includes books,dorms,food, and staff. If we let the government try to pay for colleges, workers will be laid because they would receive little a mount of money since there are so many colleges to pay for in the united states. That is why the ghetto is unfix able.
Debate Round No. 1
atjacobmajor

Pro

Con, interesting to hear what you have said, and I thank you for challenging me! As for the definition, yes I agree that is a good definition, HOWEVER it cannot really but put that plainly. Yes, it is true at a certain point in time a "ghetto" is a location, but throughout time the certain "quality" of a location fluctuates, especially within the inner city. My partner says that "In order to fix the ghetto you would have to knock down, rebuild, and renovate buildings which would cost billions," which is most definitely, however, Con has forgot that if there is a demand to fix these neighborhoods and create new ones, there will be. We are a capitalist society, and if the wealth of an area rises, new buildings will be built to accommodate their needs. If this does not happen, an alternative is that new buildings would be built elsewhere and the ghettos would be abandoned, soon to be demolished and replaced by new developments. My theoretical plan focuses on creating an environment where children would have the time, interest, and safety where the youth could grow up to create and serve an entirely new market. The idea is that, if these said education services are provided, the wealth and work drive would increase amongst the youth. And of course, as mentioned before, with wealth comes demand for better quality living accommodations, and by extension services, transforming or creating new neighborhoods.

"Also you talked about how we should have after school programs for kids in order to keep them off the streets, but what about adults?" My proposed plan was extremely simplified and undefined, perhaps that may cause a bit of confusion, and for that, I apologise. Poor debating on my part. The plan focuses on getting the youth more wealth and creating a totally new mindset. It intends to simply let the adults "die out." Although, I admit there is a simple solution to ease the process, so I am proposing a fourth step to my plan: don't give welfare to those who can work. Make them do simple tasks such as cleaning the neighborhood, re-painting buildings, etc., the philosophy behind this being that if we are paying them free money anyways, why pay them to at least somewhat better the neighborhood. So the solution is perhaps not to keep the adults off the streets, but on the much nicer streets.

"Also you talked about providing free or affordable college, trying to do that will be impossible. There are approximately 4,168 colleges in the united states. I think it would be very hard for a government that has to deal with hurricane relief and keeping this country safe and are currently 20,174,956,126,564 dollars in debt to pay for 4,168 colleges." We would not being paying for everybody's tuition, just poor inner city kids, nor we would not be paying for expensive tuitions, just technical degrees. When I say technical degrees I mean short and relatively inexpensive programming to create jobs such as plumbers, electricians, small business management. You also brought up the point of being over 20 trillion Dollars in debt, which is a totally different problem. In short, however, it is always a better solution to grow the economy, rather than make budget cuts. You brought up the points of also having to protect the country and provide hurricane relief. I would argue that this is a more current problem than either of those. We already spend about 37 percent of the WORLD'S military budget about the combined amount of the NEXT SEVEN COUNTRIES COMBINED! (https://www.nationalpriorities.org...) I am not necessarily saying this is a bad thing, just that we need not augment that more within the next several decades. As for hurricane relief, it is not as big as a problem as fixing the inner cities. Why is it, maybe next to artificial intelligence, the United States' most important issue? Because, according to the U.S. Census, by 2043, whites will be a MINORITY! (Page 14, https://www.census.gov...) This is a problem because 70 PERCENT of blacks and latinos live in, mostly poor, inner cities. (http://www.pbs.org...) This means that by 2043, the country will be well on it's way to having poor ghettos as a majority. If the majority of your population lives much worse than it did 50 years ago, then it is a bad sign for the country. This is why this is, at least one of, the most urgent issues facing our country, and why we must conflict within the next three scores (60 years.)

I am genuinely curious over what you have to say, Con. And once again thank you for accepting my debate!
bond_jamesbond101

Con

Thank you pro for that strong rebuttal, I would like to talk about how you stated that there is no demand to renovate buildings in the ghetto. That statement is completely false. If you go up to someone who lives in the ghetto and ask do you want your apartment or house renovated? Most likely they would say yes. Most people want their houses renovated, even in the suburbs. Also you stated that you would give welfare to those who cannot work in order to help fix the ghetto. Giving welfare to people who cannot work would actually increase. According to Cato Insitute, a 50% increase in combined afdc and food stamp benefits given led to a 117 percent increase of crime for black men. Also you stated that the college tuition would pay for only inner city poor kids. According to the huffington post, there are around 15 million children that live in families below the poverty line. I would still say it would be very difficult for the government to pay for 15 million kids to go to college for a technical degree. You also spoke about how hurricane relief is a current problem. That statement is false. With the climate rapidly changing, hurricanes are only going to get bigger. The total cost of hurricane Harvey is around $190 billion. If hurricanes occur more and continue to get bigger, imagine how much we would have to pay for damages. With more recurring hurricanes it would be impossible to pay for fixing the ghetto. That is why we cant fix the ghetto. Thank you pro and I am excited to what you have to say next.
Debate Round No. 2
atjacobmajor

Pro

Hey, Con, I appreciate the compliment on the strong rebuttal, and I too believe that you have returned the favor ;)

Without further ado, let me get into my second rebuttal:

1. " I would like to talk about how you stated that there is no demand to renovate buildings in the ghetto. That statement is completely false." Perhaps this is my fault for not being extremely clear, however, generally when 'demand' is spoken of in the housing industry, it is a combination of not only want, but ability. Of course everybody wants better things, this is a no-brainer, however, not everybody has the ability to enact those wants.

2. "Also you stated that you would give welfare to those who cannot work in order to help fix the ghetto. Giving welfare to people who cannot work would actually increase. According to Cato Insitute, a 50% increase in combined afdc and food stamp benefits given led to a 117 percent increase of crime for black men." Again, you seem to have misunderstood me. The main focus point of that statement was to make people work, and NOT give welfare. I only implied that the opposite would happen to those who COULD NOT. When I say those who cannot work, I am referring to people with disabilities (Unless the disability is relatively minor and does not inhibit the work they are doing,) and the elderly (not defined by actual age, but by physical wellness.

3. " Also you stated that the college tuition would pay for only inner city poor kids. According to the huffington post, there are around 15 million children that live in families below the poverty line. I would still say it would be very difficult for the government to pay for 15 million kids to go to college for a technical degree." Although this would no doubt be expensive, in the long run it would most likely be beneficial. Because of the influx of students, the government would most likely need to construct additional technical colleges. The average technical degree is only $3,443 dollars (1.) The average degree multiplied by 15 million children (your number) is 51.645 billion dollars. If you add an additional 15 billion for wildcard cost, such as subsidies, and another 25 billion for construction costs, you get a total of about $90 billion dollars. At face value this sounds like a lot, however one must consider that the government spends more than 10 billion a day! (2) This means that it would take the government only nine days to spend the same amount. If you do the math for how much this would add to the daily cost of 10 billion dollars, one can assume the 15 million kids was including kids of all ages, and since the average age for college is about 18, you can assume that the 90 billion dollars is for those 18 years. This comes out to about 5 billion dollars yearly, and 13.698 million dollars daily. This is a total increase of .14 PERCENT! That also includes building costs! So in the end, on the scale of the United States, this is literally, a fraction of our budget, and not at all expensive.

"You also spoke about how hurricane relief is a current problem. That statement is false. With the climate rapidly changing, hurricanes are only going to get bigger. The total cost of hurricane Harvey is around $190 billion. If hurricanes occur more and continue to get bigger, imagine how much we would have to pay for damages. With more recurring hurricanes it would be impossible to pay for fixing the ghetto." Hurricanes are a current problem, the larger problem is flood defense and global warming. Although this is extremely important, how to deal with global warming, and by extension hurricanes, is a totally different issue. My point is, comparing the importance of both issues, fixing the ghettos is a more important problem. If we do not fix these, we will have no money to pay for these hurricanes.

Thank you for reading my rebuttal! I am curious to what you have to say next!
bond_jamesbond101

Con

Thank you pro. I'd like to explain that I stated that you said there is no demand. For your argument in round 2 you said " Con has forgot that if there is a demand to fix these neighborhoods and create new ones, there will be. We are a capitalist society, and if the wealth of an area rises, new buildings will be built to accommodate their needs.". Also I was wondering on why if you said if we don't fix the ghetto we wont be able to pay for hurricanes. I was honestly quite confused because we have had the so called ghetto since the start of our country and we are still able to pay for hurricanes, even though they are terribly expensive. Something I haven't talked about is education. Most people can control if they receive a high school diploma or not yet they don't work hard enough. Also there are many colleges that are affordable for people living in the ghetto. It seems to me that some of the people don't work hard enough and that's whats pulling them back. They have opportunities, but they are just not taking them. I am elicited to hear your response pro.
Debate Round No. 3
atjacobmajor

Pro

Thank you con, you appear to not be understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying that there is no CURRENT demand, but we aim to CREATE demand.

When you said " Also I was wondering on why if you said if we don't fix the ghetto we wont be able to pay for hurricanes. I was honestly quite confused because we have had the so called ghetto since the start of our country and we are still able to pay for hurricanes, even though they are terribly expensive." I said this because, as I noted before, the Black and Latino populations are growing to the point, that by 2043, whites will be a minority. This is a problem because 70 percent of blacks and latinos live in these ghettos, therefore the ghetto is growing and will soon outpace the growth of rich white neighborhoods, this why it is important to make these communities significantly more wealthy, to be able to pay to repartions. By 2043 there will be more people, which means that HURRICANES WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE! If our income doesn't grow at the same rate as our poor population we will not be able to sustain paying for reparations.

"Something I haven't talked about is education. Most people can control if they receive a high school diploma or not yet they don't work hard enough." Yes, this is true, especially in black communities. But an important part of my plan that you seemed to forget was keeping kids of the streets and in school, allowing them more time for study, and less time to be affected by the 'lazy' culture.

"Also there are many colleges that are affordable for people living in the ghetto." Not really, no. It is true that hard working individuals could afford these, but if everyone became more "hard working" prices would go up, and the very thrifty attitude of people in the ghetto might not encourage EVERYONE to go to college.

" It seems to me that some of the people don't work hard enough and that's whats pulling them back. They have opportunities, but they are just not taking them." Again, we come back to the laziness problem. What is the solution? Keep kids off the street and in school.

Hopefully, this has cleared up what I am saying for you.
bond_jamesbond101

Con

Thank you pro, Firstly I would like to address that after school programs that keep kids off the streets have been in the ghettos for years. Since they've been around so long and hasn't really changed the ghetto, whats the point of having them? Also id like to address that there are many tuition free colleges like Barclay college and Alice Loyd college, also Harvard and Columbia university. Also many schools in ghettos offer study programs to help them get good grades. People living in the ghetto just have a lazy mindset, and mindsets are difficult to change.
Debate Round No. 4
atjacobmajor

Pro

Thank you, Con. I must say that I am sad that our time is coming to an end, and I have truly enjoyed this debate. I would love to debate with you in the future! Now, without further ado, let me bring in my final rebuttal and closing statement.

"Firstly I would like to address that after school programs that keep kids off the streets have been in the ghettos for years. Since they've been around so long and hasn't really changed the ghetto, whats the point of having them?" It is true that such programs have existed and do exist, however these programs have never really been brought into full effect. Also, the statement that these programs were ineffective is simply FALSE. According to several sources, there were numerous benefits. A few of the benefits include; a 60 PERCENT drop in drug related crime , TOTAL crime reduction by 89 PERCENT, and MURDERS, RAPES, ROBBERIES, and BURGLURIES dropped to ZERO on nights that the games were held. (http://articles.latimes.com...) (https://www.nytimes.com...) Of course these facts are not representative of every community, but this is still proof that it WORKS. Programs like these can also lead into long time effects on the population, by making these people harder workers in the long run.

"Also id like to address that there are many tuition free colleges like Barclay college and Alice Loyd college, also Harvard and Columbia university." These colleges all happen to be some of the best colleges in the country. This has almost no effect on students all around the U.S., let alone poor and inadequately educated inner city kids. There are not many free technical colleges, and there is no real culture of going to college. Providing free technical college makes college seem as another step in the education system, rather than just an option for the extremely intelligent and smart.

"Also many schools in ghettos offer study programs to help them get good grades." Yes, this is true, however the lazy mindset of many inner-city children discourages many of them from taking these courses. The reason why they haven't been effected is because they haven't grown up in an environment encouraging hard work, as my plan would do.

"People living in the ghetto just have a lazy mindset, and mindsets are difficult to change." Of course, mindsets are near impossible to change, however, if a new generation of children would learn a new type of mindset, not from their community or parents, but from schools, this would not be a problem and children would be more eager to put more effort into school, work, bettering their community, and team sports.

CONCLUSION:
My plan aims to change the mindset of children by creating a safe environment to stay in and be taught in, and then give education opportunities to give people more developed jobs. The increased standards and amount of wealth in these communities would cause them to be renovated or new communities to be built. The fact that these inner-cities are growing at a rate that would outpace rich, white neighborhoods is troubling, but this could be turned into one of the countries greatest golden ages if such a market is taken advantage of before it is too late...

I truly enjoyed this debate Con, and am excited to hear your conclusion. As noted before, I would love to do another debate, and if you or anyone else is interested, please go ahead and message me :) Thank you, and may the best debater win.
bond_jamesbond101

Con

This has been a great debate and I thank you so much pro for finding such an interesting topic. The ghettos are a big problem
but I deep down believe that it can be fixed. You have made some great points (much better than I did) So i have decided to concede the debate. Thank you so much pro.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by atjacobmajor 3 months ago
atjacobmajor
It has come to my attention that I have forgotten to put in my sources for my third argument, and for this I apologise.

Source 1: http://www.collegecalc.org...

Source 2: http://www.learnliberty.org...
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by JimShady 3 months ago
JimShady
atjacobmajorbond_jamesbond101Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro wins convincing arguments because of the concession made by Con at the end. Both Pro and Con had very good arguments, and these 3 points could've been a draw if there was no concession. Sources also got to Pro for offering very good statistics about how much money the govt. spends and that white's will be a majority. Good job to both atjacobmajor and bond_jamesbond101, better job to atjacobmajor.