The Instigator
Emmar1999
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
aT78
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Are there people that needs help instead being in jail?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 345 times Debate No: 85562
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (0)

 

Emmar1999

Pro

I took an example, and it will be a delicate subject. Alyssa Bustamante, she murdered a little girl when she was 15 in 2009. She had depression, attempts of suicide, and not a very good childhood, drug addict parents. She was under medication too. I think, that she needed help more than she needed to be punished after the murder, she wasn't ok, and, if we think with a cold brain and leave the hate aside, we will found out that she doesn't deserve to be in jail for the rest of her life. She deserves a chance to be social, to be reincorporated to the society, and also to receive some kind of affect, because she suffered enough, because of her mental problems before and after the murder.
And I'm not the kind of people that is against death penalty, the kind of people that fight for the prisoners for them to not be treated bad in jail; I"m with these kinds of things, but in this case, and possibly many others, I'm against what the justice did.
aT78

Con

I will also like to start with an example. Lets say their is a girl who shares a similar experience, addicted parents, was on medication, tried suicide, etc. and our system is generous enough to help her. Now the girl is given the help and the rehab that you asked for. After a certain interval of time the girl didn't show any significant changes in her attitude rather she continues to be the way she. Moreover she attempted another murder and an innocent got killed in the way. Do u still think generosity served well in this case??..
Debate Round No. 1
Emmar1999

Pro

Well, I shouldn't let her out just like that. Precautions must be taken. I'd choose like a responsable for her, someone without any kinds of trouble with the police before, you know, passed through a psychological test. This person would be responsible to report any sign of possible problems in future, police should be around too, it'd better if she doesn"t know if there are cops nearby. And it would be like this for a while. Of course, there are a bunch of laws that should be changed or write new ones and that takes it"s time.
With the depression she had, and with living in jail, I don't think that she can do it again. But other cases are more delicate, so I would apply this with the kind of cases like Alyssa"s, and some others, but there are people that just can't be helped or doesn"t need help, like psychopaths or men that want to kill every man on earth; but there are kids that are bullied by other kids in school, and they just have the anger inside until it grows enough to make them kill someone, these are the cases where the guilties need help, when kill becomes a needing.
Also, these kind of cases can be avoided, people have to pay attention. Suddenly, Alyssa Bustamante begun to post funny images of suicide, which is a way to tell the others that she is in a bad situation, even if t"she says that it is not serious; that's an example, shi kids, or kids that begin to drink or doing drugs very early. It is impossible to create a perfect system, but at least we can try to be fair.
aT78

Con

Well i do respect your opinion but if you are talking about the fair thing than i think you are only looking at half the picture. Our system is designed to be fair for everyone not just the criminals. Well if punishing a person for killing a little girl is not fair for the victim than what else is??. Now the girl was 16 and maybe too young to judge the right and wrong or was brought up in the tormented manner but she did commit a crime for which she is punished. And that's how fair is defined in our judiciary system which even you can't deny.
Now as far as the question of whether the girl should be given a chance to improve or should be aided in choosing a path to be a better person than i want to inform you that their are some dedicated organisations whose sole purpose is to help these kind of cases. No doubt they need to be improved a lot but the work is still going on and if the offender do the right things than the parole system is also their. If that's not fair than what else is??..
Debate Round No. 2
Emmar1999

Pro

I read somewhere that an adult woman murdered her husband by stabbing him more than thirty times, in a celousy attack; she only got twenty years in prison, and a girl with psychological problems that kills another girl has to be in jail for life; I mean, the cases are not that similar, but they could give her thirty years at least, in comparison of the other case. And, like I said, I think she suffered enough because her mind troubles, she was surviving a hell since three years before the murder, and she lived it for years in prison I guess, and I don't know if she's still depressed, if they are still keeping her in a special cell for prisoners that can try to attempt suicide. Being realistic, that the system was made to be fair, doesn't mean that it is; I think they did that because it was very polemic, they gave the people what they wanted for them to feel safe, that doesn't mean it is fair.
And she wanted too... look, I don't really talk english, i"m still learning, I don't know how it is called, she wanted to have another chance for change the sentence because she didn"t knew the laws and rights very well before, they didn"t wanted to do that. We are talking about an emo girl with psychological troubles, what could she know about these things? She didn"t even know how to answer the questions of the judge - not about the murder, but about how was she in prison and her history with depression and medicaments and what did she understand about some right, something like that- . That doesn't seem fair to me.
And about the victim and her family, yeah, a dead daughter isn't exactly a fair thing, she was in the wrong place in the wrong time and with the wrong friend. But, how could her mother let her be with a girl that cuts herself? Which images of the scars could be seen on facebook, how could she let her with a person that takes pills? The girl as friend of Alyssa"s little sister, but they were friends too. For some people, lady justice must to help only the ones accepted by the else and recognized as the good ones, but justice is not like that.
Well, this is a debate, I respect your opinion too. So, tell me:
Do you think that there could be another kids, or teens or men that shouldn"t have the sentence they had even when they admit what they did? Or the judge's decision are just right for you? Well, is not only the judge, but you know what I mean. The point is if the system is really fair to everyone.
aT78

Con

The judiciary's decision is the final decision and that's what we have to accept, whether we like it or not. And the topic of your debate also centers around that because only a judiciary has the power to decide what to do with the criminals. Now the decision of the judge is influenced by the evidences and the side with the most credible evidence wins. So the sentencing that you mentioned about the two different cases were based on the evidence and that's why they were different. Moreover the laws vary from place to place which can further affect the sentencing. But for the fair thing my argument is still the same. This might seem unfair to you but the system is like that to give justice to both the sides not just the criminals.
Debate Round No. 3
Emmar1999

Pro

Well, I am talking in a more subjective way, of course that the laws that were already been written must be accomplished, but I don't understand how can a sentence be good for the family of any victim. The mother of the murdered child, for example, isn't able to talk with a cold and peaceful mind, if it is to her, she would kill this girl. And the sentence won't get her daughter back, so, I only see the punishment as the only thing that has to be fair.
Where I come from, the system has been too light, the fair thing to do here is cut some fingers of the hands of the raiders and kill the murderers, because too many have kill and/or rob people and they are just free to do that again. It is necessary to do that for the country to not be so unsafe.
But, in the kind of cases we are talking about, the judiciary's did a very unfair thing to do: Do what the common people - the kind of people that just saw in the news someone killed someone - was expecting. I think that the other woman that I talked about was in the same state, but I'm not sure, whatever.
Are you really agreed with the sentence for Alyssa Bustamante? Without thinking on judiciary's decision or the laws of the state.
And, OK, there is nothing we can do for those that are in jail, but there could be guilty persons missjudged and sentenced to be an exaggerated amount of time in jail, Do you think that there could be of those? Or re you just cool with the system how it is right now?
aT78

Con

aT78 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Emmar1999

Pro

Emmar1999 forfeited this round.
aT78

Con

First of all i'm not agreeing with the fact that every decision of the jury has always been the fair one. It cant always be. But as per your question of the justice in the case of Alyssa,I think that the jury must have considered several things that even we cant think of before coming to that decision. And even then we cant be sure that what he did was justified. Because its a game of evidences. But the topic here is to help the person in jail rather than question the jury. And for that i think i already made the point.
Debate Round No. 5
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