The Instigator
Nd2400
Pro (for)
The Contender
SupaDudz
Con (against)

Are we Headed toward another World War???

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/7/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 466 times Debate No: 105618
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (16)
Votes (0)

 

Nd2400

Pro

There are many areas in the world that war could break out. Such as in Asian, in the South China Sea, the northern part of Europe, or even in Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia or other parts of the middle east, plus we have the North Korea crisis, if the US and China don't handle this correctly it could trigger a war with each other. I know what happened in world war 1 was a build up before there was an actual war like in 1908 there were signs the world was headed toward a world war. Then after a few years of the military buildup, then a smoking gun happen in 1914, which the assassination of Austria president happens after those things got out of hand. World war 2 had another way of starting, it was around 1934 or 1935 before there were other signs of a world war happening again. Then Germany invaded Poland in 1939, then world war 2 happen. Another note that is important is both world war the general public didn't think world war would ever happen. Same kind of things is happening right now. I would say the military buildup started around 2014, so it will take some years before an actual war breaks out. Now we are near the end of 2017. Some examples of what is happening in today world are Russia and Nato's playing major military war games. Russia and the US are clearly not going to be on the same page in the worldviews, and that is leading to mistrust and a lot of tenses between the two countries. Then we have China playing a major factor in today world. First China is clearly not helping the US with trading, nor controlling the North Korea crisis. China says one thing about the North and then do the other. We have India and China not getting along and almost started a war with each other in the summer. If things get heated again, what side do you think the US will be on? Tell you this it's not on China side. The US also has big issues on the islands China made in the south china sea. We have another thing not favoring the US, and that is Russia and China have military alliances and being partners on each other economics. Both countries now have a good working relationship. Not good for the US, nor the Nato alliances.

Round one will be starting your arguments why we are not headed toward war.

If you are interested, comment on the comment section...
SupaDudz

Con

Hello Sir. I would be happy to debate you on this topic. This is interesting and can't wait to debate.

CLAIM: The U.S.A. is not headed toward a WW3. My reasons are as stated

1) We have been closer to WWIII than our current 2017 situation and that didn't abrupt to anything. I am referring to the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. This is Cold War period was the most tense time because it was Communist Soviet Russia vs Capitalist America. We aren't preserving capitalism in North Korea or even Russia. If that huge event wasn't enough to trigger World War 3, what is? We barely even talk about that day because of my next argument...

2) Media over hypes everything with a war. Express.co.uk has proven this claim. If you look up World War 3 on your google tab, 3/4 of the articles that pop up are by express.co.uk. They use these articles and this "clickbait" to get more money. If there wasn't as much media attention with this, there would not be as much attention going into this...social media has lead to my next argument

3) It is only a war of words. Every country knows the consequences of a nuclear war. They are talking a lot of time out of their days to hype their effect because they want countries to be scared and be their sort of dog to them. Trump is doing a good job not being a "dog." Showing that we are not scared of North Korea will cause more words to spew from their mouths, yet they will do no action.

4)Military arsenal increase is inevitable as the era goes on. Hiroshima and Nagasaki prove because they introduced this to enlist fear into the eyes of the world.

5) WWI type assassinations are unlikely to happen in states where nuclear bombs exist. Security and bodyguards are more equipped and high tech to handle the situations

6)NATO/UN won't allow a powerhouse to invade or take over a continent like Hitler and the Nazi Germany. League of Nations weak while Un is not. Status quo solves

In conclusion. We are far from a WWIII happening
Debate Round No. 1
Nd2400

Pro

Thank you for your feedback. You pointed out the cold war, an interesting subject and i will get into that later on. You also pointed out the media overhyping things also interesting, and again i will discuss this later on too. I will mention some of the other things you said later on in the debate. But first, you need to know some history, because history is very important to know and to understand. We need to learn from our past mistake to grow into the future. and not get stuck in the past.

Over the last 500 years been very challenging for humans. Some experts think major wars runs in cycles, like in American history. The American Revolution, the Civil war, ww1, and ww2. A theory is a major war happens every 70 to 80 years. Base on this, we are right about there. According to Graham Tillett Allison, is an American political scientist and professor at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard, we are entering Thucydides trap. There is another reason why I'm thinking we are getting closer to war each day. And some of it I mention in the first round.

"China is using its island-building project to give teeth to its claim over almost the entire South China Sea and its islands and reefs". These island China have made is already having the military in a possible conflict. "Beijing intends to turn these artificial outposts into military footholds that will provide it with power projection capability right across the South China Sea. Each island has hangers for 24 fighter jets, as well as bombers and surveillance aircraft. Each island has hangers for 24 fighter jets, as well as bombers and surveillance aircraft. Anti-aircraft and antimissile systems can be seen on one of the artificial islands. Anti-aircraft and antimissile systems can be seen on one of the artificial islands. In a crisis, these facilities would significantly complicate US war plans and access to the South China Sea at acceptable levels of cost and risk. There"s also a more important day-to-day implication: these new military outposts allow China to dramatically extend its strategic reach from its southern shores down to Indonesian waters, creating a new strategic status quo and a Chinese sphere of influence. Beijing, in other words, is seeking to become the dominant military power in this part of the world with a capacity to prevent, deny or veto other countries from accessing these waters." (1.) http://www.news.com.au...
China is already trying to challenge the US in the Pacific.
"It was the rise of Athens, and the fear that this instilled in Sparta, that made war inevitable." They have been 16 cases of this happening in the last 500 years. 12 of them when to war. US and China can still avoid this, but the way Trump is pushing through the China trade, and the way China is making sure they can be controlled the South China Sea and the way the landscape is the way they are we are in a Thucydides trap.

You don't think we are coming closer toward something happening like a world war. Yes, one of the biggest argument is the technology we have with nukes, no one would use them. With more countries having them 10 nuclear-armed countries with North Korea included, no leader will use them. The cold war, no one used them, but the people that were living in that era, they still remember what happened the first time the atomic bomb was used. Now most of those people that lived in that era not alive anymore. That's why some expert's are seeing a human trend, a major war happen in every generation lifespan, like every 80 years. Another argument is war is just too expensive, and many lives would be lost. That is true but it was true back then too, with other major wars. Yes, the weapons of today would almost kill us all, so you can't use the past as an example, but all it takes is one miscalculation, one mistake, and a couple of buttons pushed, and we have nukes flying. We should be careful about the future, and try to look back at history so we don't do the same mistake. But are we leaning them? It not as hard to found ourselves in a world war which we would be unable to come out of. The other reason why this is so different than the cold war, is back then it was just the US, and Nato pack, against only the Soviet Union. And we both know where the red lines were. Now with So many other countries having these kinds of weapons, it makes things so much more difficult. New rules now in play, and many nations don't know where the red lines are. They are major military build-up across the world, they not building just for nothing. I said before most people didn't see the other two wars happening until it's too late.

They the NK crisis which is more comparable to the Cuban missile crisis. I will tell you why this is so bad. One CHona could very well play the part of defending the North again. Again History is important to know why they are backing them.
"The Sino-North Korean Mutual Aid and Cooperation Friendship Treaty is a treaty signed on July 11, 1961 between North Korea and the People's Republic of China." (3.)https://en.wikipedia.org... this is a treaty with the North Korea and China. Do you know why it's important? It because China would protect them if there were attack first. That's why China help them in the first Korean war. With the US helping the south. So history has a lot of importance, we need to understand it, so in the future, we don't do the same mistakes. The Chinese government has issued hundreds of warning to the US, not to attack the North. Why would they be so concern, if they weren't going to do anything?
"China won't come to North Koreans aid if it launches missiles threatening U.S. soil and there is retaliation, a state-owned newspaper warned Friday it would intervene if Washington strikes first". (4.)https://www.washingtonpost.com...

"The rise of a more politically and militarily assertive Russia and an economically and institutionally ascendant China may be characterized as the two principal forces challenging the United States in global policymaking." (5.)http://thediplomat.com... China and Russia will join together if the US attack 1st. One reason is that its next door to the north. And they do not want the US being anywhere there.You need to understand the history of geopolitics.

Now the Media part you mention is really non-sense why because they are thousands of news channels and the one you mention Express.co.uk, is bias, just like the national enquirer, and the sun, they are build to report false reporting. They rarely ever mention anything true. There are news organizations that don't hype things and actually well respected such as the AP, Reuters, Politico, The Guardian, The Independent, and so many more. So, if you going to listen to the Express.co.uk then people who are informed should know not to take this source seriously. So, No not all media is hyping up the news, it depends on who you are listing to.

You think we not even close toward another world war, mean to me you not opening your eyes nor ears to what is happening around the world. We have a flashpoint with the North Korea crisis, that could bring in China if things are not handled right. We also have a flashpoint in Europe between Nato and Russia, We also have a flashpoint in the middle east with tensions rising all across this region. We also have a chance with a direct conflict between the US and China, and tension rising every day between US and Russia. We are already in a new cold war, and this is much more dangerous than in the past. We are headed toward a war. We haven't learned from the past.
SupaDudz

Con

Hello. I am glad you can accept this and I am willing to debate. I will be formatting by the paragraph's you answered an rebuttal in.

1ST Paragraph AT
The last 500 years have been tough for countries and political leaders, not humans in general. The 1500's were a time of prosperous arts and exploration. If you are referring to around the debate of American Independence which would be July 4, 1776, we can obviously see wars don't run cycles. Here are a list of wars that have happen with American involvement

War of 1812- USA vs England
American Civil War
WW1
WW2
Korean War
Soviet-Afghan War
Vietnam War
Iraq War(present day)

See we have been fighting an 12 year war with Afghanistan and Iraq. We already in a major war, yet we have been no where need to global war or anything like that. Throughout the 1960-2010. We have had many wars from the dirty staring contest aka the Cold War. If none of these wars provoked a WWIII, where Russia was communist, then we aren't close at all, noticing the fact we are already at war with Iraq that has not escalated. Since you magnify the other point I made in another paragraph, I will not mention this.

2nd Paragraph AT
SOURCE: http://www.scmp.com...
SOURCE: https://www.huffingtonpost.com...
SOURCE: http://fortune.com...

The U.S.A is neutral with China. They are not allies nor enemies. However they both are trying to control North Korea from gaining and power and leading to a nuclear. These bases that are being built do not show hostility to the U.S. They are competing for the right reason. The countries both want to stop North Korea from causing harm in the world and these bases show authority and are telling North Korea to back off and see who is the more militarized of the countries. North Korean airforce and navy come no where near close to the Chinese and Americans. These stationed place authority within the seas and show that they are not backing down. This is not a bad thing. South Korea can prove this. The simple solution is if you don't listen to North Korean garbage talk and give no attention, they feel unimportant. If they feel they are losing power, they back off. The Syria bombing by Trump also prove this. Trump showed who is the most powerful in this relationship and told North Korea, we have power and are not afraid to use it. North Korea backed off and then we loosened up, they tested their missiles. The solution is simple, so if do this, we wouldn't be talking about WWIII, which will link to media overhyping.

3rd Paragraph AT

We are living in an era where nuclear bombs are usable and people do remember atomic bomb explosions. However that will be the price one will have to pay when technology advances. We can't abandon technology and that is fact. We are surrounded by technology. We are typing our arguments on a piece of technology. Truman made a mistake dropping an atomic bomb on Japan. Countries have learned from this huge mistake and now with this nuclear weapon that they have, they will not use it, as how devastating it, because of the old saying "With great power comes great responsibility." Miscalculations won't happen when countries don't use them due to history and past mistakes. If no one clicks the button or does not project anything because they don't use them , they don't worry. If they don't know where the red lines are, obviously they need to be educated and forced to leave. That is a lack of NATO leadership and not doing a good job enforcing the rules. This won't lead to a war as we still have the UN which can reinstate peace. Military build up in inevitable. Countries want to be the police of the world. The need that hegemony and improving the military is just a cause of this. All countries are going to this and countries have done it for a while and are still doing it without a nuclear conflict. Even in the North Korea scenario. It hasn't resulted to anything

4th Paragraph AT
SOURCE: https://thediplomat.com...

You are saying that a nuclear base being built short miles away from U.S homeland with nukes being moved there when there was a real tension between communist and capitalists is comparable to North Korea testing nukes and making threats to state power? You can not compare. China is not defending North Korea or their actions at all and are even provoking them in away from these military bases. Xi is a smart man. He is not going to defend a madman that is threatening to nuke U.S. In fact, as a matter of the fact they won't defend depending how they use their arsenal. There would be a ton of pressure to join the U.S do to the power of North Korea and what it can do. China is not the bad guys, it's the North Koreans. Chinese are the rope and U.S and North Korea are the people are pushing it. That is why these countries don't use the weapons because they know the damage. When something like this does happen. It would be solely because of North Korea, not because of U.S because they have not provoked North Korea. it would be more likely China would support U.S if they did something that provoked them. It will not be U.S that makes the first move, it will be North Korea if it came to that. So when you are comparing a nuclear base being built which almost led to a nuclear war with Russia and Cuba (dangerous allies) because of this picture, is almost outrageous as U.S and Russia were enemies, and now they are ok with each other the leaders. North Korea attacking first can be proven from the Cuban Missile Crisis as well so therefore, we only think of North Korea provoking U.S.A because of this.

5th Paragraph AT
China would not join Russia. China broke away from the communism brand in the 80's when Soviet was struggling. They ere the biggest allies in 80's, not in 2000's as tensions rose because of this decision and the breaking led the Soviet Union to collapse. They have improved, but not enough for them to work together to take down the U.S.A. Having countries next door is not a reason being allies. Mexico and U.S.A are next door and obviously the relationship is at a rocky phase.

6th Paragraph AT
Express.co.uk is not a reliable source yet is pops up most of the times on my browser. Wonder why? Because people click on it and see it. This means people obviously see it and think a certain way. This why media people and the commoners see these and overhype the tensions. Every author of all the sources you say has a political view on something and each company leans to something. FOX and CNN leans Liberal while CNBC lean right. These websites have bias no matter what due to the authors. The war is only just of words and the media is using these words as "war claims?" Clearly there is fallacy in these articles and have a bias to overhype for the cash.

CONCLUDE
I have opened my eyes to the real world. I have seen the events just like you. I have my opinions and I am believing them. I believe that we are nowhere close. It is a war of wars and I leave with this saying

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt."
Debate Round No. 2
Nd2400

Pro

Good to hear from you again... Shall we begin....

Okay, let me tell you something. Just about everything you wrote is wrong in your round 2 debate. I will cover the issues you put in this round.

Okay, you mention the Korean War, Soviet-Afghan War, Vietnam War, Iraq War, and the Afghanistan war. These wars you mention are proxy wars."A proxy war is a conflict between two states or non-state actors where neither entity directly engages the other".(5.) https://en.m.wikipedia.org...
These wars are smaller wars not major wars. And you stated "We already in a major war". This is completely wrong. Major wars are when both nations or multiply countries are involve or actually have a chance to win or when both side have lost masses of life. These proxy wars are one sided. Major wars runs in cycles, like in American history, The American Revolution, the Civil War, WW1 and WW2. This can be research in" Thucydides trap. They been 16 cases of this happening in the last 500 years. 12 of them when to war. You can get this information online or this book "Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides's Trap?" By Graham T. Allison (6.) https://www.belfercenter.org...

You said this "The U.S.A is neutral with China. They are not allies nor enemies".
Well this is also completely wrong. You not seeing the big picture here nor understand what is happening around the globe. China would be the US greatest threat or already is. Why because they are the second biggest economy in the world and the third largest military in the world. We already seeing major issues spearing up with both countries. Such as, the South China Sea with the island China made. Then President Trump trying to lay blame to China, for the North Korea crisis. Plus trump almost ready to lay down a trade war with China. China is using its island-building project to give teeth to its claim over almost the entire South China Sea and its islands and reefs". These island China have made is already having military on a possible conflicts. "Beijing intends to turn these artificial outposts into military footholds that will provide it with power projection capability right across the South China Sea. Each island has hangers for 24 fighter jets, as well as bombers and surveillance aircraft. Each island has bombers and surveillance aircraft. Anti-aircraft and antimissile systems can be seen on one of the artificial islands. In a crisis, these facilities would significantly complicate US war plans and access to the South China Sea at acceptable levels of cost and risk. There"s also a more important day-to-day implication: these new military outposts allow China to dramatically extend its strategic reach from its southern shores down to Indonesian waters, creating a new strategic status quo and a Chinese sphere of influence. Beijing, in other words, is seeking to become the dominant military power in this part of the world with a capacity to prevent, deny or veto other countries from accessing these waters."(7.) world/asia/south-china-sea-controversy-heats-up-as-manmade-islands-are-almost-complete/news-stor4aa8664ef1f147d704b8f1e78e62516
China is already trying to challenge the US in the pacific. "Top US general: China will be 'greatest threat' to US by 2025". (8.) http://www.cnn.com...

You said " The solution is simple" on North Korea. Again you are wrong it not simple because trump is pushing the war policy toward the North. Really there are two options on the table right now. They are attacking the North and going to war. Or let north korea have these nuclear weapons. But trump and Washington don't want the North to have these kind of weapons period. And it way too late to have the North to disarm, that not going to happen. You didn't even read the section in my round 2 on why China will help the North if wars does happen. There is a treaty between china and North korea. "China's air force drills warn U.S., South Korea". (9.) https://www.upi.com...
China will back North korea, if the US strike first." Again read this (China said this) "state-owned newspaper warned Friday it would intervene if Washington strikes first". (4.)https://www.washingtonpost.com...; And understand this.

You also said this "China would not join Russia" Again simply wrong.... Where is your proof on this matter. Oh, that's right you can't prove this. I source this in round 2 that actually link Russia and China as being friendly to one another. And even more than just friends. They have two to three military exercises a year. They became more friendly toward each other in 2014. If you want more proof i will bring it in round 4.

Oh, if you are wondering why google already show Express.co.uk. if you search ww3, it because Express.co.uk have the most stuff on ww3. But shouldn't be consider creditable because most of what they write is false or just completely misreading. Oh yeah, FOX News is not a liberal network. And CNBC is not a Conservative network. "Some outlets, such as MSNBC, are known for their liberal views, while others, such as Fox News Channel, are known for their conservative views". (10.) en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_bias_in_the_United_States
Another thing here most credible news network rarely ever mention ww3 or a 3rd world war. That because it not a fact yet, it hasn't happen. So, the most credible news network won't say anything until a high ranking official in government say something about a future war or mention a global war. So, no the mainstream media isn't hyping this issue up.

The Cuban missile crisis, is comparable to what we are living under right now. Both can lunch nuclear weapons, both have the potential of killing millions and cause a world war. I already mention why China will help the North if they were attacked first. You think our leaders can be so, smart and stop any kind of a attack. You think our leaders can't have miscalculations. If you think that, you being foolish. You think trump not leading the United State in a war with North Korea, then you just not thinking too much. One of the biggest problems is nit talking, and this what we have with north Korea. So, it can lean to miscalculations by both countries. Oh, yeah did i mention the middle east is even more unsafe now with the move of the Embassy to jerusalem. This is undermining the peace process. Again the middle east is also a flashpoint, just like in Europe with russia, the NK crisis, all have potential to go global. All these countries is building there military, and causing more mistrust, more tensions, and causing more misunderstanding. Did you know China and india almost when to war over the this summer? And do you know they are still having problems with each other. So, yeah the world is boiling up rather you want to see it or not. The world is not a safe place as much you want it to be. If you actually listen to what is happening and start to read, you might be able to realize the world just not what you though it was. Like i said before the majority of the population did not believe the first two world wars would not happen. We again in danger from every part of the world. The new cold war, the new arm races, the new space wars between the US, China and Russia. New technology wars happening against each other.
Oh did you heard Japan now buying new missiles from the US they first missiles since ww2. China will sure not going to like this move. Wars happen because countries challenge the dominance power, over trade, territorial areas, military, and economy. This is what happening right now.

Look forward to hear what you have to say next....
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Nd2400 5 months ago
Nd2400
Sorry to hear this... Im glad your father is doing alright.

I understand you what you going though. Glad you give me the heads up.
We can finish this debate some other time. Just let me know when. And i will make a new one and just copy and paste where we left off.

Again sorry to hear what you are going though...
Posted by SupaDudz 5 months ago
SupaDudz
A bad event has occurred in my life which will prevent me from finishing the debate...

My dad has been rushed to the hospital last night. He will be fine but will have to stay there. While this is already enough stress in my life, I also have major stress with schoolwork and all of that with a huge history test.

My answer were prepared and was ready to post today. But this event will lead to forfeit the debate.
Hopefully we can debate sopon without an emergency like this occurring ever
Posted by SupaDudz 5 months ago
SupaDudz
A bad event has occurred in my life which will prevent me from finishing the debate...

My dad has been rushed to the hospital last night. He will be fine but will have to stay there. While this is already enough stress in my life, I also have major stress with schoolwork and all of that with a huge history test.

My answer were prepared and was ready to post today. But this event will lead to forfeit the debate.
Hopefully we can debate sopon without an emergency like this occurring ever
Posted by SupaDudz 5 months ago
SupaDudz
A bad event has occurred in my life which will prevent me from finishing the debate...

My dad has been rushed to the hospital last night. He will be fine but will have to stay there. While this is already enough stress in my life, I also have major stress with schoolwork and all of that with a huge history test.

My answer were prepared and was ready to post today. But this event will lead to forfeit the debate.
Hopefully we can debate sopon without an emergency like this occurring ever
Posted by SupaDudz 5 months ago
SupaDudz
A bad event has occurred in my life which will prevent me from finishing the debate...

My dad has been rushed to the hospital last night. He will be fine but will have to stay there. While this is already enough stress in my life, I also have major stress with schoolwork and all of that with a huge history test.

My answer were prepared and was ready to post today. But this event will lead to forfeit the debate.
Hopefully we can debate sopon without an emergency like this occurring ever
Posted by Nd2400 5 months ago
Nd2400
Sorry. But sometime the truth hurt. Sorry for some of the sources, they look good until i post them up....
Posted by SupaDudz 5 months ago
SupaDudz
i will be working on these arguments soon. that was...harsh

well they i should be putting my arguments up maybe tomorrow sometime.

i have to admit it is hard looking for info...this will link...
Posted by Nd2400 5 months ago
Nd2400
Source (7.) http://www.news.com.au...
Posted by Nd2400 5 months ago
Nd2400
Thanks for replying back... I hope you will finish this as while.
I will send out my argument later on tonight... But you will not like what i have to say... I will just leave it at that for now.....
Posted by SupaDudz 5 months ago
SupaDudz
wrote during free time booyah
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