The Instigator
ShadowOfDarkness
Pro (for)
The Contender
vonteboy454
Con (against)

Are women discouraged from playing video games by the outside community and game developers?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/2/2016 Category: Games
Updated: 1 month ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 191 times Debate No: 96620
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

ShadowOfDarkness

Pro

Are women discouraged from playing video games by the outside community and game developers? As a female gamer, I believe that women are left out of marketing and online games. I will be arguing this point FIRMLY, using sources and testimonies from women who were verbally abused on online games, Myself included.
vonteboy454

Con

Ok, I am will be assuming when you say "discouraged" you mean as in men don't want women playing with them, and are harassed. So, I want to start my opening argument, by stating that this cannot be true. (1) In fact, believe it or not, 52% of the gaming population, including console gaming, mobile, and PC gaming, are WOMEN, and it is only growing, just 3 years ago it was 49%. That is more then half of the entire population of people who play video games, so I am wonder just how women are discouraged. Over the last few years women have actually be ENCOURAGE to play more. With many first person shooters allowing "female" characters to be created. (2) In fact, Call of Duty, one of the biggest games on the market, and most stereotyped for being a "mans game" allows you play the main character as a WOMEN. Yes the lead of the entire story. A women. If that isn't encouraging I don't know what is.

1. https://www.theguardian.com...

2. http://www.techtimes.com...
Debate Round No. 1
ShadowOfDarkness

Pro

I would like to rebut both of your points.
Firstly, I would like to address your first point. Yes, It is true that more than half of the gaming community is female, but you wouldn't know that from the game ads, which almost exclusively feature males playing the games, and male charcters in the games. Don't you think that if 52% of the gaming population is female, that there would be most ads centered around selling to them? And if you want an example of "discouraging women", I point you towards online gaming, Where simply using your Microphone option is a reason for people to ridicule you.
And in response to your second point, Yes, you are right. Games like Call of Duty are starting to be slightly more accepting to the ideas of female protagonists in there games, And that's really great. A round of applause for them all. But did it really have to take that long?? Seriously, there have been over 20 Call of Duty games on multiple platforms, and we are just starting now? Now, to be fair to Call Of Duty, its not just them. Assassin's creed only started very recently to use female protagonists in there games, and Farcry has yet to even do this. There is also the issue of over-sexualization of female protagionist and NPCs. This is said to be so it appeals to both genders. That's right, Even when they are trying to include women, there still doing it to the advantage to men so the experience is better for them. And before you go saying "They are just trying to achieve equality and include everyone", well they're not. Women don't want this. They want the same standards as male characters. To have a characters that are fully clothed in respectable, normal clothes, and to be able to go into a gaming world and interact with female NPC's that are also fully clothed and respectible, and not just eye-candy for the male demographic.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
https://jayisanerd.wordpress.com...
vonteboy454

Con

Ok, this isn't a knock against you, but for future arguments try not to use Wikipedia as source.
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Now back to the debate. In your counter agreement you stated "Don't you think that if 52% of the gaming population is female, that there would be most ads centered around selling to them?". This is true, and I think from a marketing stand point, that would be a good idea, but at the same time, you have to realize that I said 52%. That is about half, meaning the other half of that are men. Plus, if you took that Call of Duty series for example, it only is expected that men would be featured in the game more. Think about it. If you are watching an AD for Barbie Dolls, and they suddenly started showing little boys playing with them instead of little girls, wouldn't that be weird? Now believe me, I have no problem if any little boy wants to play with Barbie Doll, but you have to look at the one simple fact. The INTEND consumer is little girls, and not little boys, but it doesn't mean they cant encourage little boys to play with it. They could always make a boy Barbie doll so the boys could play with it. See what I am trying to say? Call of Duty, and other games like that are targeting boys, for the simple fact, that is who they expect might buy their product, but at the same time they are pushing for girls to play it too, but they have to remember that the males usually tend to buy it.

Now the 2nd thing you said "And if you want an example of "discouraging women", I point you towards online gaming, Where simply using your Microphone option is a reason for people to ridicule you." This counterargument is invalid. Men suffer this same fate along with women. Sure, we don't have to worry about someone calling us "wh*res" or "b*tches", but we do face the same thing on a daily bases. I myself play online every day, and believe me, if I reported every little thing someone said to me that was offensive, I would be making a report everyday. I have been called a "f*g" or "small d*ck" and plenty of other things. This is just some thing that the gaming community faces on a regular basis, and if our better half of the gaming community cannot handle it, they don't need to be online at all. (NOTE: I am no way, shape, or form condoning this behavior from the community. I am simply stating the truth.)

3rd thing you said. "But did it really have to take that long??". Yes it did, because like I said in my first argument 3 years ago it was 49%, and Call of Duty: Ghosts came out during that time as well. Exactly on November 2013. So, the reason for it taking that long was to see if the gamers that where women would keep playing games like that. I can understand that. Most companies out there would wait as well, to make sure that women would actually keep playing. I wouldn't waste money on game made for women, or add extra things for women, if they wouldn't buy it either.

4th thing you said. "There is also the issue of over-sexualization of female protagonist and NPCs. This is said to be so it appeals to both genders. That's right, Even when they are trying to include women, there still doing it to the advantage to men so the experience is better for them." Ok, first of all, stop being selfish and look at it whole. Are you saying that men are stereotyped either? Why is it in almost every video game men are view as being violent? Why is it in almost every video game that men are viewed as strong and brave? Not every man is violent. Not everymen is strong and brave. In some case we are sexualized too. Not every man on this planet has pecks, and 6 pack chiseled washboard ABS. Not every man will is super handsome with huge penis who is monster in bed. (Excuse my lag.). Not every man on this fights over the smallest things. To believe that men are not sexualized, and stereotyped, and it only happens to women is just out right ignorant. For god sake look at Saints Row III. Not only can you give your guy 6 pack ABS, and a handsome face, and make him super strong, you can edit the size of his penis for god sakes, and then they have the audacity to call it "appeal". Out right ignorant.

A lot of these reason you have listed, happen to US too. Sure it may not be the exact same punishment, but again we suffer the same fates. This is not a gender related problem, this is a problem with the games themselves. Women are treated with just as much respect as men, with little to no respect. Sorry to bust your bubble, but women are not THAT special.
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by SpelunkingSamurai 3 weeks ago
SpelunkingSamurai
TheBenC,
My bad, I mixed up Pro and Con in my post. So basically, where I said Pro, I meant Con. And where I said Con, I meant Pro (apart from the first part where I reference Pro being the one to forfeit). I'm a retard, I know. We're actually in total agreement here.
Posted by TheBenC 3 weeks ago
TheBenC
SpelunkingSamurai ,
How are female characters sexualized but male characters are not? Having a male character bare chested with bulging muscles and pretty features...is that not sexualizing him?

It seems that female characters are sexualized more but in reality both are sexualized. Nobody complains about male characters so they get ignored.

The truth is...sexualizing characters happens with both genders and it is not a problem. The only problem is with those who choose to complain about it.
Posted by TheBenC 3 weeks ago
TheBenC
SpelunkingSamurai ,
How are female characters sexualized but male characters are not? Having a male character bare chested with bulging muscles and pretty features...is that not sexualizing him?

It seems that female characters are sexualized more but in reality both are sexualized. Nobody complains about male characters so they get ignored.

The truth is...sexualizing characters happens with both genders and it is not a problem. The only problem is with those who choose to complain about it.
Posted by TheBenC 3 weeks ago
TheBenC
Girl gamers play bull$hit games. We all know it. Candy Crush does not have the gravitas of Fallout or any other big game. Girl gamers do not pay $60 for a game as often as guys and are less likely to pay $20 for dlc. Girl gamers provide much less money to the developers and are rightfully ignored.

Name one game aimed at girl gamers that can possibly make the profit that Fallout 4 did!
Posted by SpelunkingSamurai 3 weeks ago
SpelunkingSamurai
It's a pity Pro ended up forfeiting halfway through here because I think he was the one who came out on top.

Anyone who plays online games knows that it's a haven for trolls who will insult you and make fun of you for shits and giggles. It's not something that happens solely to women, and it's cherrry-picking on Con's side when he only focuses on the abuse that women get.

Pro brought up the statistics on gamer gender that say it's almost 50/50 between male and female gamers. What he failed to understand, and a what a lot of people fail to understand about this statistics, is that this is just a very vague generalised based on if you personally consider yourself a 'gamer' or not. It also varies depending on the type of games being played. There's a lot more women playing casual smartphone games, for example, than stuff like Bloodborne. Most game developers are aware of this, they know their audience and they market towards them appropriately.

Pro pretty much nails it when it comes to the issue of 'sexualisation' though. It may be fairly common to have sexualised female characters, but it's just as common to have male characters with their masculine attributes exaggerated in a similar way. And again, if you know that a large part of audience is horny teenage boys (like the Dead or Alive series for example), it's not exactly a terribly idea to appeal to them with hot chicks.

Finally, on the subject of female protagonists, it's pretty common to see people complaining about a lack of them, much like Con does. However, this shows a general ignorance of both the history of video games and of modern video games that fall outside of the mainstream. If you want female protagonists, you may have to start playing more than just the yearly CoD release that, as Pro pointed out, is obviously going to have a heavy focus on male characters, being a realistic war game and all.

I don't think anybody is discouraging women from playing games, especially not game develope
Posted by Some_Confused_Kid 1 month ago
Some_Confused_Kid
Verbally abused really a kid calls you a very rude name and call it verbal abused?
Posted by Verithenes 1 month ago
Verithenes
I would debate you except I agree with you
Posted by TheBenC 1 month ago
TheBenC
This is going to be funny. Women get verbally abused while gaming online? Wow...that is amazing....

Everyone gets abused when online gaming. It has nothing to do with your gender. Those kids will go at you for anything and everything they can just because they can.

Do you want game developers to market and develop games that do not appeal to their biggest buyers which are men?
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