The Instigator
wierdman
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
Itsallovernow
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Are year-round schools a good idea?

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
wierdman
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/18/2011 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 9,759 times Debate No: 17951
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (3)

 

wierdman

Pro

The debate will go in the following order:

Round one: Intro

Round two: main round/ Case

Round three: CX

Round four: conclusion.
Itsallovernow

Con

I am in negation of year round schools.

I ask my opponent these things to do in Round 2:

1) Define year-round school and the alternative I am defending
2) The conditions of how we are to CX

As per courtesy, the Conclusion round should be only to reverify points an not to rebut with new evidence that the opponent can not defend.

If this criteria is met, I will participate more effectively in this debate. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
wierdman

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting the debate.
My opponent will be defending the regular school year.

Year round schools are based on schedules that promote schools throughout the year. Year round schools deliver the same amount of days as regular schools as they distribute there breaks throughout the year. The fact that these schools share the same amount of school days means that these kids will not be overwhelmed as well as retain there knowledge as they are not giving the chance to experience the so called "summer learning loss.

Contention one:summer learning loss


Definition: Summer learning loss is the loss in academic skills and knowledge over the course of summer vacation. (http://en.wikipedia.org...)
Summer learning loss is a major problem in the United States as it shows that kids are unable to retain the knowledge learned from the school year. year round school counters summer learning loss as it eliminates summer breaks by distributing the days of summer vacation consistently throughout the school years. This creates a stable environment in which students are able to get the break needed to maintain energy throughout the school years as well as retain the knowledge learned in their various class.

"When experts look particularly at math, the picture is even worse. Researchers at the John Hopkins University School of Education studied the drop-off in students' mathematical computation skills. The results show a mean loss of approximately 2.6 months of grade-level equivalency. That means students performed, in September, as if they had missed a quarter of the previous school year.
As an Ontario middle-school teacher I'm convinced the under performance may be far worse than even these shocking reports suggest.
It's a struggle to keep kids engaged from as early as mid-May. Behavior takes a nose dive and even the most diligent students lose focus.
Add the six weeks from mid-May to the end of June to the two-month summer break itself and the math 2.6 months "summer learning loss" and you'll find that some kids are effectively "out to lunch" in a major subject for six months every calendar year. Yikes."

(http://www.thestar.com...)

"year-round schools take those 180
days and redistribute them, replacing the usual schedule—nine months on, three months off—with a
more "balanced" schedule of shorter vacations alternating with shorter instruction periods across all
four seasons of the year."

(http://www.sociology.ohio-state.edu...)

Contention two: student's achievement"



Modern day studies have shown that year round schools increase the performance of students. one of these studies is the California State Department Of Education, this study shows that standardized test scores increased an average of 9.5% in Grade 3 with an average increase of 13.3% in reading scores. This is mainly because of the stable learning schedule. Learning schedule is wildly spread to ensure that the student has full understanding of the topic at hand. Vacation time are distributed at specific times to ensure that the students gets the break needed to maintain a high level of attention as well as the break they deserve. The fact that these schools do not have summer vacation, allows for flexibility in curriculum.

"Data is showing that students do as well and sometimes better with shorter summer vacations and refreshing breaks during the year."

(http://www.nayre.org...)

"The third problem is insufficient learning time. In order to provide a long summer break, learning must cram within a shorter period of time, which requires students like John to either give up a comprehensive learning or cut sleep, both of which are undesirable. Furthermore, a long summer results in less learning time and less knowledge acquired."

(http://www.nayre.org...)
(http://www.edutopia.org...)

"Charles Ballinger and Carolyn Kneese indicate in their book, School Calendar Reform, "A balanced year-round calendar provides a logical pacing of instruction, followed by regular breaks. Refreshed by the breaks, teachers and students return ready to work."

(School Calendar Reform,(book))

In conclusion, year round school are a good idea as it presents kids with a stable and at the same time flexible curriculum.

Thank you and i hope to receive your response/ case soon.

Itsallovernow

Con

I thank my opponent for his rich and engaging debate. I shall start with rebuttalls, then move to my main points:

REBUTTALS:

1. Summer Learning Loss- My opponent states his concern with Learning Loss. However, Furthermore, a notable number of schools have returned to traditional scheduling, further increasing spending cost of educational institutions. Reasons for these returns are various, but essentially found it better for students to return to traditional schooling, which has been working for well over a century.
Furthermore, many of Learning Loss issues are related to noneducational activities. Math itself would be most affected because forgetting a number or variable in a meathod means the whole thing is wrong. I present this resolution to summer learning loss to make it more cost efficient and practical. Over 50% of students wish to be invovled with summer learning activities. This would be a more cost efficent approach and constructive to student-teacher relationships bettering in the long run, since most loss happens due to non-educational activities in summer. I feel this will resolve Summer Learning Loss. Furthermore, the information is not entirely gone. Teachers spend time reviewing last year to help them remember.

2. I will break down my opponents sources chronologically:

1. I did not find this quote in the source below it. What are they doing better as? Sleep, emotional stability, academics?
2. My opponent's source is utterly false in "The third problem is...". My opponent and I have already established a school year as 180 days. Therefore, there is not insufficient learning time and 'cramming'.
3. This quote merely restates what year round school is, and states at the end "Refreshed by the breaks, teachers and students return ready to work." My opponent's source is stating that because of a break, they return ready to work. Summer vacation is a break, but a longer one, and there always are students ready to go back to school, not just rejuvinated enough until the next break, but envigorated to achieve another whole year of school!

CONTENTIONS:

• "Family- Students and parents may find it difficult to plan trips for special, much needed intimate time together, thus weakening the fabric of the family.

• Scheduling Conflicts- Scheduling conflicts for teacher's whose extracurriculars are taken place during the summer arise.

• Professional Development- Getting all teachers in one place at one time for professional development can become an issue.

• Summer Employment- There are a number of upcoming juniors and seniors who do work during the summer as part of their preparation and college saving.

• ***(Direct from Source) Other Summer Experiences- Intensive summer experiences in which students from across the country or even internationally come together for specialized training or activities that range from athletics to academic subjects to experiences on college campuses would be impossible with the year round school schedule. Owners of summer camps and vacation spots, as well as other warm weather activity centers will also suffer if their clientele experiences a sharp drop.

• Maintenance Timing- Oppritunities for maintenance are reduced.

• Increased Cost for Scheduling- A scheduling system to reassign the design of the schedule is another cost.

• New Operational Costs- Schools that were not designed for summer classes may not be able to comfortably accommodate people without installation of air conditioning.

• Academic Benefits Are Questionable While some school districts and schools have had some success with year round school schedules, others have found that there was no academic performance improvement. A 2007 study by a sociologist, Paul von Hippel, from Ohio State University, found that students in schools with year round school schedules don't learn more in a year in math or reading than schools in traditional nine-month calendar settings.

• A Large Number of Schools Go Back The numbers vary depending on who's reporting, but a notable number of schools have returned to traditional scheduling, which has had its own costs."

(http://today.msnbc.msn.com...)
(http://www.educationbug.org...)

Based on my contentions, I negate year-round schools.
Debate Round No. 2
wierdman

Pro

I thank my opponent for his enriching argument. I shall now present my argument.

1. According to my opponents rebuttal, various amount of institute has returned to their traditional schedule; however, according to my source, many schools are actually switching to year round schedule as they found that the results were breathe taken. My opponent states that the traditional schedule has been here for centuries; however, he failed to note that this isn't the 19th or 20th century, this is the 21st century meaning that it is clear that a reform is in order. In previous centuries, many technology did not exist meaning also that many technology did not distract the kids of that age.
I agree with my opponent in stating that many learning loss are related to noneducational activities; however, my opponent did not state a means as to how educational activities would be encouraged to the point were kids especially teens would be like to take part in it.

"Over 50% of students wish to be invovled with summer learning activities. This would be a more cost efficent approach and constructive to student-teacher relationships bettering in the long run, since most loss happens due to non-educational activities in summer..."
i ask my opponent to present the source in which he got his statistics. According to my statistics " The percentage of seventeen-year-olds who read nothing at all for pleasure has doubled over a twenty-year period (U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics 2004). The report notes that the percentage of thirteen- and seventeen-year-olds who say they read for fun almost every day was lower in 2004 than in 1984 (U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics 2004). There is also an increase over the same period of time in the percentage of people who say they never or hardly ever read for fun" (http://www.ala.org...) This source tells us that no matter how much you force your kids especially teenagers to study during summer, they are not learning nor retaining any information.

2.
1. i don't understand this question. please restate it in the next round.
2. my opponent declared my source as false without presenting any source that proves that the information presented in my source was false. This proves that my opponents claim is dismissed as it has no source to support it.
3. "My opponent's source is stating that because of a break, they return ready to work. Summer vacation is a break, but a longer one, and there always are students ready to go back to school, not just rejuvinated enough until the next break, but envigorated to achieve another whole year of school!" My opponent misread my source, it states that year round schools presents students with enough breaks to keep them refreshed and ready for school but in a moderate way.

I will know state my Rebuttal on my opponent's case:
1. Vacation time last approximately 6-10 days, year round schools offer three weeks of break after every nine weeks allowing more than enough time to travel or take a much needed vacation.

2. Scheduling Conflicts- these teachers would have to adopt a different time perhaps during the one month vacation time. this does not change the performance of the students as they are given a break after every nine weeks.
3.Professional Development- i do not understand this topic, please explain.

4. Summer Employment- like i mentioned these students have a one month vacation time, they could get a job during these period of time as well as maintain the job throughout the school year. Since the curriculum is extended, these students would have less homework reducing there stress.

5.other summer experience-"Instead of having summer break for 3 months year long school would have school for 3 months and a month of break. Students that like winter sports will have a chance to play them. Students that like summer sports they will be able to swim too. Every body is happy" (http://debatepedia.idebate.org...)

6. Maintenance timing- please explain.

7.Increased Cost for Scheduling- The schedule is already set as many schools are now adopting the year round schedule.

8. New Operational Costs- These schools do not have to change to the year round schedule. This debate states that year round schools are a good idea, it does not mandate all schools to convert.

9.Academic Benefits: teachers witness benefits. " A 1994 report, "Prisoners of Time," released by the National Education Commission on Time and Learning, argued that a departure from the traditional school calendar could better meet the needs of contemporary society and result in increased student achievement." (http://www.edweek.org...)

10. "he beginning of a three-month break from school seems to be as much a harbinger of summer as barbecues and beach vacations. But, according to the National Association for Year-Round Education, more than 2.3 million U.S. public school students attended year-round schools in the 2002-03 school year. The number has steadily grown since the 1986-87 school year, when only about 360,000 students were enrolled in year-round schools. NAYRE also reports that 3,181 public schools now function year round, compared with 408 schools in 1986-87."

Thank you.
Itsallovernow

Con

Thank you for the debate.

REBUTTALS

1. My opponent and I both state that many schools go to both year-round and traditional schooling. Just because something is old, doesn't automatically qualify it for reform. We implement modern technology in traiditional schooling to make it easier and more practical. The traditional schooling habits are evolving with the times. There is a saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." However, we are doing better by enhancing the way traidtional schooling is run.

2. My source for the 50% statistic is actually 56%, stated as "���‚���A majority of students (56 percent) want to be involved in a summer program that ���‚��"helps kids keep up with schoolwork or prepare for the next grade���‚���. Cited in "http://today.msnbc.msn.com...;. Under IMPORTANT FACTS bulliten 2. My argument still stands to be refuted.

3. " i don't understand this question. please restate it in the next round" What question?

4. " my opponent declared my source as false without presenting any source that proves that the information presented in my source was false. This proves that my opponents claim is dismissed as it has no source to support it." I stated it was false in saying there would be less learning time and thusly cramming, since we agreed both our schooling methods are 180 days to a school year.

5. (To your following rebuttal) No, I was not reading from your source. That was an independent rebuttal as an answer to you stating, "Students with enough breaks to keep them refreshed and ready for school". I feel it important to note that students recieve 2 day breaks a week (Weekends). Perhaps students might get a little Learning Loss from a two week or so break so often.

To my opponents rebuttals on my contentions:

1. I respond thusly, "According to the US Department of Education, parents' main concern is finding childcare during school breaks. Timing also gets tricky for families who have children on different schedules, and kids may miss out on traditional summer activities, such as camp." This creates scheduling problems, and these regular breaks would require many children to have a sitter. This can be difficult for low-income families in this economy." They can't take a vacation every week, and furthermore, the window of time may not align with their vacation time frame.

2. You stated they have 3 weeks, not a month, vacation time every nine weeks. Three weeks is not enough for programs that implement a whole summers-worth of activities. They'd need at least two months, something this schedule does not provide. If the school pays teachers to host these extracurriculars, then the teachers also miss out on the extra funds they may need, and the students miss out on the student-teacher bonding.

3. (Ignore this point, I didn't mean to include it.)

4. Even if students got a month to get a job, they couldn't keep it. A month is merely a training period for most jobs. Many jobs that students qualify for are fast paced (i.e. Fast food), and leave the student tired. If they have to work right after school, they will have less time at home and that can be difficult. Personally, I held a job all through Senior year last year, and I almost failed as a result. It is physically demanding, and most students do not have the maturity level to meet both obligations. They NEED this summer time.

5. I respond thusly, cited from your own source (www.ebatepedia.idebate.org) "While there may be an equal amount of vacation year-round with year-round schooling, they would be in blocks too small to allow for many types of summer programs." The year-round schooling restricts the range of activities they can do, cutting their experience potential, and the only thing better than learning in theory, is learning by experience.

6. Custodians/mechanics work on the school in summer. AC, Painting, etc. 3 weeks is not enough time to get it done. Summer is barely enough, just ask the custiodians at Huntington High School in Huntington, West Virginia. I know exactly what Mr. Smith would say.

7. This does not provide a solution to the schools who have not adopted it. Please rebut more effectively.

8. In that case, year-round schooling is not a good idea, and I assert the negative due to transition costs.

9. I claim this source is dated. A source almost 20 years old is too old of a source to use. Please come up with something more recent.

10. IMPORTANT NOTE: There may be 3,181 year round schools, but out of 125,000 schools, traditional schooling proves to be a more consistant, practical method. (nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=84)

Thank you for this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
wierdman

Pro

Since this is the last round, i cannot rebuttal or present new points. I will ask my opponent not to present new point or rebuttal in this round.

Ones again i would like to state that this debate is not to reform traditional schooling rather it is presenting Year round schools as a good idea.

I ask for your vote as my opponent does not present any information as to why year round schools are not a good idea (my opponents burden of proof) rather he gives us information as to why traditional schools should not be reformed. For this reason i ask for your votes thank you.
Itsallovernow

Con

Thank you for the debate.

As stated before, year-round schools are not a good idea. The reasons being for the points cited above. I would like to point out that I have effectively rebutted my opponents points to disprove year-round schools being a good idea. The points I already made were,

1. Costs
2. Reduction of summer activities
3. Inconvienence for families.

For these main reasons, I urge a con vote. My opponent did not successfully rebut these points, and they still stand, seeing as he did not offer an effective resolution to the problems cited.

VOTE CON
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by ladybug1 4 years ago
ladybug1
I think that we should have year round schooling because it is less likly for kids to forget things.
Posted by Itsallovernow 5 years ago
Itsallovernow
I cited my source and used proper quotations to credit the source. I did not plagarize. The definition of that is, "To take an idea from a source without giving credit." I did that. I'd like to introduce a funny quote...

"To take away from many sources is research, but to take from just one is plagarism."
Posted by marcuscato 5 years ago
marcuscato
Pro made a strong case for learning loss.Con pointed out that school year is of the same duration in both cases. This point goes to Pro.

Con:
1.Increased costs-Not refuted by pro.
2.Reduction of student activities-refuted by pro
3.Training/Jobs - Not refuted by pro
4.Inconvenience to families-tied.

It was a close debate but con had more points.
This debate was well researched but con should not copy paste, its called plagiarism. Try to paraphrase.
Spelling can improve on both sides.
Posted by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
Unforetunately, I agree with you, and don't want to do devil's advocate on this one.
Posted by wierdman 5 years ago
wierdman
No, its for people who are ranked the same or higher than i am.
Posted by randolph7 5 years ago
randolph7
Am I not old enough?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by darkhearth 5 years ago
darkhearth
wierdmanItsallovernowTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: pro made a far more convincing case. Source goes to pro for using more reliable source. as for the rest, i thing its tied.
Vote Placed by marcuscato 5 years ago
marcuscato
wierdmanItsallovernowTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Change: Con did write direct from source. Try changing the font when you quote. I personally prefer to italicize.
Vote Placed by freedomsquared 5 years ago
freedomsquared
wierdmanItsallovernowTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO did a better job at defending his contentions, while I feel that CON conceded some contentions and made some arguments only because he felt he had to, and not because he actually believed them. Both sides had good conduct and sources were acceptable. S