The Instigator
GojanTorresque
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
AvalonXQ
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Arguing that abortion is wrong but the government should stay out of it is usually the worst option.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/16/2013 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 673 times Debate No: 33789
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

GojanTorresque

Pro

The first round will be for Outlining and a basic Summary only. I will be arguing that of the three major "sides" of Abortion debates, there is only one that is definitively morally wrong based on a modern general acceptance of morality: That Abortion are in fact, morally wrong, but should not be made illegal.

This is being compared to the options that Abortions are morally wrong and should be outlawed, or that Abortions are not morally wrong, and should be allowed. I will not be trying to prove either of these options right, merely prove their opposing side wrong. I will also not be taking into consideration "Abortions are not morally wrong but should still be outlawed" because that is not an argument that I have ever heard presented. I will discuss it if my opponent brings it up.

Finally, no new arguments should be discussed during round four, only address previously mentioned arguments. It is not fair to bring up brand new points when they cannot be responded to.
AvalonXQ

Con

Accepted.

My basic argument is based on the following:

1) The lowest rates of abortion occur in countries where legal abortions are available.

2) The ideal purpose of the law is not to match morality but rather to minimize harm. That is, what is illegal does not need to match what is immoral; instead, what is immoral/harmful should be minimized by our legal policies.

3) Because making abortions safe and legal (along with other policies such as safe sex education and freely-available contraception) reduces the number of abortions, the purpose of the law is best served if legal abortions are available.

I look forward to reading my opponent's arguments.
Debate Round No. 1
GojanTorresque

Pro

First, I will explain my premise, then respond to your points.

I am making the following claims:
1) Abortion either is, or is not, "murder", depending on whether you consider the fetus a life, or merely something that could become a life later, and based on justification.
2)By modern general standards or morality, "murder" (unjustified killing of another human) is immoral.
3)If a killing is justified, it is not immoral, merely not preferred.
Therefore:
4)If Abortion is killing another human, and the gains do not justify the death, it is Murder, and therefore immoral.

5)Preventing someone from being murdered is minimizing harm in most situations, and morally acceptable.
Therefore:
6)If Abortion is murder, then the government ought to regulate abortions with similar "defenses" as they ought use for Murder: only acceptable in cases of self-defense/necessity.

7)Little to no reasonable justification for Abortion being immoral exists if one does not accept that it is murder.
Therefore:
8)If one believes Abortion is "wrong", one generally believes it is Murder, if reasonable logical reasoning skills were used in the conclusion-making.

Conclusion: Saying that Abortion is wrong but should not be made illegal is, in the vast majority of cases, tantamount to saying Murder for the reason of "not wanting to deal with the downsides of pregnancy and childbirth" is acceptable, or at least should be legal. This, I believe, is in itself an immoral stance.

----

"1) The lowest rates of abortion occur in countries where legal abortions are available."

I believe this statement is, at best, factually questionable, and at worst, explicitly incorrect. Many different studies have come to different conclusions, as it is hard to gain accurate data on an illegal procedure, and even in places where Abortion is legal, off-the-record procedures will still occur.

Additionally, this argument is, at it's core, a fallacy in that it is a Cum Hoc argument: it assumes that correlation equals or at least implies causation, and this is not necessarily the case. If your facts are correct, then this only makes it more likely that legal abortions caused the lower rates, it does not prove it. Those same countries that have legalized abortions are likely to also have better contraceptives available, as the places where abortions are illegal in all cases are typically third-world countries or at least poorer countries such as many parts of Latin America or Africa, and contraceptives are more or less universally shown to decrease abortion rates by studies that test this.
That is just one alternative explanation for why abortion rates would be lower.

"2) The ideal purpose of the law...what is immoral/harmful should be minimized by our legal policies."

I agree.

"3) Because making abortions safe and legal...if legal abortions are available."

I accept, fully, that making Abortion legal makes them safer as a general rule(though I must note that illegal, unsafe abortions still happen in significant amounts even where abortions are legalized, whether for monetary reasons, privacy reasons, or not meeting the requirements of the Abortion Laws of that area). I do not accept that there is sufficient evidence that making abortions legal reduces their frequency. As I said above, correlation does not equal causation, and there is at least one viable explanation for the correlation that does not require the legalization of abortion.
Even if this claim was proven, this would not be a case of legalizing abortion being moral, or neutral. It would be a case of the lesser of two evils. The evil of allowing murder versus the evil of knowing your anti-murder laws actually increase murders.
AvalonXQ

Con

AvalonXQ forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
GojanTorresque

Pro

GojanTorresque forfeited this round.
AvalonXQ

Con

AvalonXQ forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
GojanTorresque

Pro

GojanTorresque forfeited this round.
AvalonXQ

Con

AvalonXQ forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
Interesting resolution. I look forward to reading the argument.
No votes have been placed for this debate.