The Instigator
Ajabi
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points
The Contender
Mhykiel
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Art Critique Debate! (Not Drawing Competition)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Ajabi
Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: Select Winner
Started: 10/12/2014 Category: Arts
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,342 times Debate No: 62343
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (15)
Votes (2)

 

Ajabi

Pro

This is an Art Critique Debate. It deals with both the inherent beauty, and skill of the art piece (which needn't be your own), and more importantly your analysis of the piece. This means you not only have to post amazing pieces of art, you also have to appraise them, and inform the voters of why this piece is so marvelous.

I should note a few rules here:
1. Only paintings may be features as art in this debate. So sculptures, music pieces, and photographs will result in an immediate loss.
2. The paintings must be able to be placed as a single picture which you must post in your argument round (an alternate link should also be placed to avoid broken links in arguments).
3. You need to have >3000 Elo to accept this debate, otherwise you need to comment/message me first before accepting. If you accept without my permission you will automatically forfeit this debate.
4. It is better to post famous, but not absolutely famous pieces. For example the Creation of Adam, and Puberty are both famous, but the first is obscenely famous.
5. You have 8, 000 characters, 72 hours per round, 4 rounds (3 debate rounds), and anyone whose Elo exceeds 2, 000 may vote on this debate.
6. My opponent should begin this round, and in the last round must type nothing but: 'no round as agreed upon'.

I wish my opponent the best of luck!
Mhykiel

Con

Thank you Ajabi for challenging me to this unique style of debate.

http://www.debate.org...

If the image does not display a link to it is available here: http://www.canvasreplicas.com...

Title: Susanna and the Elders
Artist: Artemisia Gentileschi
Date: 1610
Medium: Oil on Canvas
German Graf von Schonborn art collection

Description: Susanna and the Elders is a portrait canvas with a young nude woman seated on large concrete steps. The steps are backed by a wall in which 2 older men are leaning over. The man to the left, with black hair, is whispering in the grey haired man on the right. The grey haired man is then hushing towards the young woman with forefinger to his lips. The young woman's reaction is averted face and open stretched hands, signaling rejection.

Artemisia Gentileschi was a female renaissance artist. It is widely accepted that this painting was her first signed work. It shows such skill that it was originally attributed to her father, Orazio. She painted this scene around the age of 17. She was being tutored by a family friend and artist, Agostino Tassi.

At first glance the seated nude is alluring to the eyes. Her reaction seems to be saying to the men a combination of rejection and disgust. Maybe the older men are flirting with the woman with crass comments. But as we look closer we see the one man whispering in the ear of the other. The black haired man has his hand on the oldest man's back. As if devising a plan and conveying it to an accomplice. There is something more devious at work here. The older grey haired man has finger to lips as if shushing the young maiden. As if the older man was saying "don't tell anyone". The young maiden's body is turned leg in mid action of out stretching to the next lower step, her head and eyes averted. She seems frozen in the act of running away. She wants to leave and leave now. But she is stuck.

The body language of the characters is intentionally composed and arranged to let the viewer into the story. The piece elicits a range of emotions. Lust, concern, compassion, pity, with each minute more there is a call to action to free the beauty from her lecherous harassers.

The scene depicts the Biblical story of Susanna or Shoshana in the Book of Daniel. Susanna is a Hebrew wife who is watched bathing alone in her garden by 2 older men. They attempt to blackmail her for sexual favors. The men threaten to testify to the authorities that they saw Susanna meeting a lover in her garden if she doesn't agree to their demands. She refuses and is in court about to be put to death for adultery. Daniel interrupts the proceedings and asks the men under which tree in the garden did she meet her lover. Their accounts did not agree and Susanna's testimony was upheld as the truth.

Art is so often drawn from real life. This biblical scene painted by other male artist tend to show Susanna as a teasing youth. Was Artemisia painting from one of her own life experiences? The seated nude is a self portrait of her at 17. The grey haired man looks like Agostino Tassi, the family friend and instructor. Later Agostino Tassi was put on trial for raping the virgin Artemisia.

Artemisia Gentileschi painted in the popular Baroque style of the time. Using the motion of the characters to portray drama. The simplicity of the piece suggests an artist just beginning to come into her own style. The composition and arrangement shows signs of influence from her father. Techniques for portraying depth are simple but well executed. The influence of Caravaggio through her father Orazio can be seen in the foreshortening , the theatrical exaggerated motions and poses. While her father's work remains romantic and theatrical in content, Artemisia's own work grows to be more raw. Showcasing strong women and their less than idealized actions.

This is my first time doing an Art critique debate. So despite being half way in my character limit, I look forward to following the lead set by my gracious opponent. If need be I'll resort to a Feldman method of critique. I'm unsure if the bulk of the debate will be on interpretation or compositional analysis.
Debate Round No. 1
Ajabi

Pro

I apologize that I have to use an old debate's work. I did not have enough time.



My reason is more than just the pretty colors. The picture itself symbolizes the conflice within man, the dialectical conflict. As Kierkegaard sais: all despair is pleasure, all pleasure despair. Now there are afew things to spot here. The first is the color of yellow, as Starry Night was made when Gough had lost it, and yellow is often a color of xanthophobic infatuation, it would be right to say that the deep strokes of yellow symbolize the mind wanting out.


Now understand the Bible verse: 'Then he dreamed still another dream and told it to his brothers, saying, “Look, I have dreamed another dream. And this time, the sun, the moon and the eleven stars bowed down to me.” Genesis 37:9'. You will find both the Sun, and the Moon, alongside exactly 11 circles of colors in the painting. You will also see the Church being particularly taller than the other buildings. Like Joseph who was cast out by his 11 brothers, Vincent obviously feels exiled by the critics who called him a loon, and bad at art for he was mixing impressionism with expressionism. Like Joseph he feels he is being protected from a Divine force.

You will notice that the brush strokes are extremely difficult to reproduce, and larger wave collides with a smaller one. Similarly the moon is drawn in the Sun. This is that dialectic contradiction which had become Gough's very existence. Now take the mountain, it has no shade of yellow, it is devout, cast away and yet it has risen beyond even the Church to the very 11 planets. Similarly this is Gough at once trying to comfort himself, pain that very despair that is the existence of man. Taking fantasy and reality, what he was feeling, and combining it together.

You can see that the base is a town, ordinary looking. That is Gough's origins, him convincing himself he is sane, with only higher ambitions. So because this is an utlimate piece of expressionism, and impressionsim; because it has unique brushstrokes and uses contrasting colors; and because it embodies that ultimate contadiction ot man: sanity and insanity; to be or not to be; I feel my opponent cannot place another art piece to its level.

Here is the link if you cannot view the art work:http://www.debate.org...
General Links: http://legomenon.com...

By the way I know my S&G is bad here, but I should note that the voters are not supposed to consider that in their vote. Thank you.
Mhykiel

Con

Mhykiel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Mhykiel

Con

Mhykiel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Mhykiel

Con

Mhykiel forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Jedi4 2 years ago
Jedi4
My debate with ajab is the best art deb8!!!!!
Posted by Mhykiel 2 years ago
Mhykiel
Absolutely Ajabi, take all the time you can. Thanks NiamC I hope to put up a good challenge. I was thinking about using the Feldman method as an outline for the debate, but I really want the impression of the piece to speak first. I think the background story of the subject or of the artist only add to it's appeal. Ajabi asked for what I thought was a marvelous piece. And this one is certainly in my top 10. It has history, human motivations, drama and pain. Illustrates truth and innocence against in a lying established world. Haha ummm.. more on those points to come.
Posted by NiamC 2 years ago
NiamC
finally, another art debate on the go. A very promising opponentt indeed!
You can count on me for voting :P
Posted by Ajabi 2 years ago
Ajabi
You will forgive me if it takes a day or so for me to post, I hope?
Posted by Mhykiel 2 years ago
Mhykiel
Oh I did copy image location. Thank you.
Posted by Ajabi 2 years ago
Ajabi
Oh you open the photo in your profile, copy the image by COPY IMAGE then paste it. :P Not the link but the actual image itself.
Posted by Mhykiel 2 years ago
Mhykiel
I thought a copy paste would add the image in the post. I guess I did something wrong. How do I do hat again, and next round I'll post the image.
Posted by Mhykiel 2 years ago
Mhykiel
I would accept if you sent me the challenge
Posted by Ajabi 2 years ago
Ajabi
Mhykhiel the voters would choose whose art piece was more beautiful, and whose critique was better.
Posted by Mhykiel 2 years ago
Mhykiel
I would like to challenge you in this debate. I'm curious what would distinguish the winner between the two of us?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
AjabiMhykiel
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by NiamC 2 years ago
NiamC
AjabiMhykiel
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: ff...