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The Contender
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As per the Hebrew scriptures, Satan is an obedient angel.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/28/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 699 times Debate No: 85433
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (15)
Votes (1)




Round 1 - Acceptance, Opening Statements, and Questions Only
Round 2 - Opening Arguments Only (No rebuttals)
Round 3 - Rebuttals Only
Round 4 - Counter-Rebuttals
Round 5 - Closing Arguments and Closing Statements

The Hebrew Bible is in this debate is the only authoritative book to be used.

Serious debate only

Arguments will start on round 2


I accept your terms and rules. Now I want this to be a fair fight,so I want to warn you,I'M BATMAN!
Well not only that,but I won on the debate team for my school. No question,I'm ready.
Debate Round No. 1


I would like to thank you opponent for accepting this debate. The word Satan is שָׂטַן; and actually should be translated as adversary. The first time the word is used is in Number 22:22, where he describe an angel of G-d being an adversary (Satan) to Balaam.
Num 22:22
And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary H7854 against him. Now he was riding upon his donkey, and his two servants were with him.
Num 22:32
Same as previous verse.
To avoid taking too much time, most verses using "Satan" are human adversary and I will skip those verses because they are irrelevant to our topic.
1Sa 29:4, 2Sa 19:22, 1Ki 5:4, 1Ki 11:14, 1Ki 11:23, 1Ki 11:25, 1Ch 21:1

And Satan H7854 stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
This is not specifically "The" adversary. In Hebrew, to be The Satan, we would need to have the adjective "HA" before Satan. It was just an adversary. We can also see in 2 Samuel 24 that G-d himself moved him to do the census. Thus that adversary was doing the will of G-d.
Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan H7854 came also among them.
This is the first instance where "HaSatan" הַשָּׂטָן; The Satan is used.
Job 1:7, Job 1:8, Job 1:9
All those verses actually use "The Satan". or The adversary.
Job 1:12
And the LORD said unto (THE) Satan, H7854 Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan H7854 went forth from the presence of the LORD.
And (THE) Satan obeyed G-d and did exactly that. So Satan was obedient to G-d and did not hurt Job.
Job 2:1, Job 2:2, Job 2:3, Job 2:4, Job 2:6
And the LORD said unto Satan, H7854 Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
Again, Satan afflicted Job, but obeyed G-d and kept Job alive. Thus Satan was a tool of G-d and Satan always obeys G-d.
Job 2:7
Psa 109:6
Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan H7854 stand at his right hand.
This verse should only be translate as "an adversary"

Zec 3:1
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan H7854 standing at his right hand to resist him. And the LORD said unto Satan, H7854 The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; H7854 even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

For this instance, the word "the adversary" was used. Why was this adversary condemning Jeshua the High Priest? In Ezra 10:18, the sons of Jeshua were married with foreign women.
And it was found of the sons of the priests who brought in foreign women, of the sons of Jeshua, the son of Jozadak, and his brothers: Maaseiah, Eliezer, Jarib, and Gedaliah.

That adversary was saying that Jeshua should not be the high Priest. Now, there is no indication that this adversary was actually an angel (messenger). Angel are actually messengers from G-d. ( This would make sense that it is a human being that was challenging Jeshua's right to be a high priest. And again, this adversary was not shown to be disobedient to G- in any way.

Those are the only instance where the word "Satan" is used. Because none of those adversaries were rebellious to G-d or disobedient to G-d, there is no reason to believe Satan was an evil angel as per the Hebrew Bible


My argument is that as I'm sure you can guess,Satan is NOT a obedient little teachers pet.
Let's look as some verse: 2 Corinthians 11:14
"And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. "
This means that Satan wishes to deceive us,and make us believe he's something he's not. People who do that are liars,just as this must mean he's lying and is the exact opposite of what he's trying to make us believe he is.
To back this up lets look at John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies." This comes form John,one of Jesus's apostles. And John is saying here that Satan lies in everything he does. So when I said earlier about Satan deceiving us about him a being an angel of light,this backs that up.
Now let's look at some textual biblical evidence that says that the devil is just "the opposite of God."
James 4:7 "Submit yourself therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
It's saying here that the devil is after you,but when God comes inside of you,he will flee. He doesn't like God and he doesn't want God around. That's my point.

Please note that my text is condensed since I am typing this on my phone
Debate Round No. 2


My opponent uses the New Testament, but I mentioned that only the Hebrew Scriptures could be used. I don't doubt that the New Testament portray Satan as a evil "Dualistic" god. Nevertheless, the Hebrew Scriptures does not portray Satan as a fallen angel, but as an obedient angel who does the will of G-d. The idea of a fallen angel comes from a mistranslation of Isaiah 14:12-17, where the translator of the Bible mistranslated "morning star" and changed it for "Lucifer" because Jesus is also called "morning star". Nevertheless, the whole passage talks about Babylon.

All my arguments stand as Isaiah 45:7 say "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create evil; I, the LORD, do all these things."


As we all know,Satan is not the lord. You said angel yourself,so you really can't change it to "Satan's and angel" to "Satan is the Lord". When he says he's the Lord,this is just more evidence of my saying Satan is deceitful and lies. This backs up my theory. But since we are using Old Testament,and I used New,here a Old Testament verse:Isaiah 14:12-14

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

This is clearly talking about Satan,and he is saying that Satan tried to ascend above God. And loyal and obedient angels don't do that
Debate Round No. 3


Isaiah 14 talks about the fall of Babylon. Isaiah 14, has nothing to do with Satan or Lucifer. The original Hebrew is "Day Star". This is talking in allegory about Babylon As it says in verse 1 "The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw."

As we all know,Satan is not the lord.
Yes I agree, satan is not the L-rd. But the L-rd creates evil, not satan.

My argument stand, there is no way to see "satan" (the adversary) as rebellious in the Hebrew Bible.


Jonan4tor forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


My argument stand, there is no way to see "satan" (the adversary) as rebellious in the Hebrew Bible.


Jonan4tor forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
>Reported vote: iTruthSeeker// Mod action: Removed<

4 points to Pro (Conduct, Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: Agree with Con both before and after.. However, Con used the NT as an authoritative source rather than the Hebrew Bible, conduct goes to Pro.. Also, Con forfeited the round and Pro had the more convincing arguments.

[*Reason for removal*] Arguments are insufficiently explained. Merely stating that one side used a subjectively more "authoritative source" and that they argued better is not enough to explain the decision " the voter has to assess specific arguments made by both sides.
Posted by dsjpk5 1 year ago
Interesting debate.
Posted by Jonan4tor 1 year ago
oh,also,I am serious about this
Posted by Jonan4tor 1 year ago
dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun

Posted by CapAhab 1 year ago
Exactly, but I believe that as per the Hebrew Scriptures (old testament), Satan is an obedient angel. You believe he was good and turned bad, if you can show that form the old testament, you may want to accept the debate...
Posted by Jonan4tor 1 year ago
Well I believe in the Christian God,and I believe that satan USED 2 be a "good" angel,but he still isnt
Posted by CapAhab 1 year ago
Are you in for a debate Jonan4to?
Posted by Jonan4tor 1 year ago
You better act like an angel in this debate BA DUM PTSS
Posted by Jonan4tor 1 year ago
Man,it's gonna be hell in here. BA DUM PTSS
Posted by GoOrDin 1 year ago
I agree with Pro
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by U.n 1 year ago
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture