The Instigator
s0m31john
Pro (for)
Winning
52 Points
The Contender
asiansarentnerdy
Con (against)
Losing
35 Points

Asians Are Nerdy

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/11/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 10,648 times Debate No: 7349
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (52)
Votes (15)

 

s0m31john

Pro

This will be a 3 round debate. Round 1 will just be introductions if my opponent accepts.

Asians are nerdier than the general US population.

If my opponent accepts I shall post my arguments starting round 2.
asiansarentnerdy

Con

Hey, this should be a very interesting debate. More than happy to debate whether or not asians are nerdy. This will be fun.
Debate Round No. 1
s0m31john

Pro

My opponent's stance on this issue seems clear at first, her username is even "Asians aren't nerdy". If one looks beyond the username though they will see that she is in fact a)an Asian and b)nerdy. On her profile in the 'About me' section it says

"I am the typical asian who gets good grades and practices the violin all day."

She is implying that typical Asians get good grades, and the female versions may even play the violin. If that is not the definition of a nerd I don't know what is. I am inclined to believe my opponent wants desperately to believe Asians are not nerdy, but succumbs to the stereotype nonetheless.

In the Arts board on the Debate.org forums my opponent created a thread titled "practicing 2 much violin cuz im azn", in which she said "im a typical azn whos parents fall under the typical azn stereotypes". [1] What are the typical Asian stereotypes you may ask? Let us turn to Urban Dictionary for that answer. [2]

"Asians are usually smart and have the following aspects although not limited to:
1. straight A's
2. strict parents
3. good at Math and Science
4. superb SAT and ACT scores
5. Ivy League college oriented
6. some can break dance and rap
7. good at video games
8. generally dominates at anything they set out to do

also, asians are considered nerds, but more of a cool-nerd type.

asian 1: hey, i got 2320 on my SAT!
asian 2: i got 2350!
asian 1: damn!
asian 3: f**k! i got an A- in english. s**t, my parents are gonna kill me."

If these were not the typical stereotypes they would not have been thumbed up by 1800 Urban Dictionary users. That is just one definition on the page, many others share the same stereotypes. My opponent said herself that she is a "typical azn" with stereotypical parents.

Asians make up approximately 4% of the US population but have a 20% representation in Ivy League schools. [3] This attributed to the actions of an Asian child's parents.

"In their book, the sisters share the methods they say many Asian parents use to get their children to achieve in school."

This strengthens my argument because my opponent said she has parents who "fall under the typical azn stereotypes".

Statistics are not racist, they are just statistics. The statistics I have presented here show that proportionally Asians are nerdier than the general US population.

I look forward to round 3 and wish my Asian opponent luck.
She will probably beat me because she is Asian.

[1] - http://www.debate.org...
[2] - http://www.urbandictionary.com...
[3] - http://abcnews.go.com...
asiansarentnerdy

Con

I wil not deny making the statements of how I have "typical asian parents" and get good grades. However, I am just one person. How many asians today exist in our society? If we implement the stereotype on all asians by saying that every asian you meet is nerdy, then you would be "judging a book by its cover." For example, there is the stereotype that all African Americans are really awesome dancers, are gangsters, and can rap/dance amazingly. However, can this be true for every one person?

Also, I thought it would be nice to have a definition for nerd, so here it is: An 'individual', i.e. a person who does not conform to society's beliefs that all people should follow trends and do what their peers do. Often highly intelligent but socially rejected because of their obesssion with a given subject, usually computers. Unfortunately, nerds seem to have problems breeding, to the detriment of mankind as a whole. This is from urbandictionary.com, exactly where you got the asian stereotypes.

Just because a person is smart, is it right to classify them as a nerd? Just because most asians make A's, or have really high expectations from their parents, if they do things non-asian people do like partying or just hanging out, they can't be classified as nerds. If a person is just born with high intellect and never bothers even studying for tests but still gets A's on everything they make, is it fair to classify them as "nerdy?" They could fall under your stereotypes, "have straight A's" and "superb SAT and ACT scores" just because they are born with that talent.
It should be right to differentiate between "nerd" and "smart"

And as for me, *sigh*, I'm just one asian. But we are arguing about the asian population as a whole, not just about me.
Debate Round No. 2
s0m31john

Pro

I would refer my opponent to the second sentence in Round 1.
"Asians are nerdier than the general US population."

I would like to debate this. The reason for the introduction round was so my opponent would see that as a term of the debate and accept. You may say it was not in the resolution, but it was also not in a debate round as there was no debate in round one. I will leave the choice up to my opponent.

Regardless, let's take a look at the proposition. "Asians Are Nerdy" I would argue that in English that phrase does not mean to say every single Asian ever in existence is nerdy, but instead it means just what I am trying to say, that proportionally Asians are nerdy when compared to another group.

If I were to say "Cakes are good" surely people would not take this to mean I like every single type of cake that could ever be made, but rather that proportionally there are more cakes that I think are good rather than bad. Therefore the phrase "Asians are nerdy" in real English would mean something along the lines of "Asians are nerdy more than they are not".

Let us get a proper definition of nerd as well. Dictionary.com defines nerd as a "Pejorative applied to anyone with an above-average IQ". [1] Urban Dictionary was used for the sole purpose of showing what the general stereotypes of Asians are. It was a good source to do so because it is typically humorous in nature and can be edited by anyone. As you can see with the proper definition no label of good or bad is applied. Being a nerd does not have to be a bad thing, in fact I would consider it a good thing. Would you rather be intelligent or mentally deficient?

I understand what my opponent is saying when she says she is just one Asian, but let's dig a little deeper. Imagine if a black man just robbed a store, lead the police on a high speed chase, then got away by being hidden in his gang territory. Now if that black man had the job of convincing someone of the phase "black men are not criminals" he would have a hard time. My opponent wants to say Asians are not nerdy, but she herself is a nerd.

I will refer you all to Exhibit A:
http://img401.imageshack.us...

This is a screen capture of a photo my opponent was tagged in on Facebook. As you can see she was tagged as 'the smart one'. This fits the proper definition of nerd supplied by Dictionary.com

Here we have Exhibit B:
http://img131.imageshack.us...

This is another screen capture of my opponents Facebook. As you will see she is a member of the Facebook group 'Nerds'.

Why you ask are these two pieces of evidence important? They go along with my proportionality argument. One random Asian from debate.org, asainsarentnerdy, proved to be nerdy herself. Right now I just searched for a random White member and came up with the member JP. There were no telling signs from his profile or activity on the forum to make me believe he should be classified as a nerd.

In my town of Kissimmee FL there are 60,894 people. 3.38% of the population is classified as Asian. [2]

My AP Physics (3rd year of Physics, College Class) has only 8 people in it. 2 of those people are Filipino and 1 of them is Bangladeshi. That makes 3 out of 8 people in the class Asian. While Asians make up less than 4% of my cities population they have an almost 40% representation in one of the nerdiest classes ever, AP Physics. That is just in Florida, there are probably similar statistics from all over the nation. It also almost matches the 4% to 20% ratio of Asian representation in Ivy League schools.

With these statistics I ask my opponent why shouldn't the general population believe the statement "Asians are nerdy" is true more than it is not?

[1] - http://dictionary.reference.com...
[2] - http://en.wikipedia.org...
asiansarentnerdy

Con

Okay, I will begin with your definition of "nerd" from dictionary.reference.com. So using your definition, anybody with an above average IQ is a nerd. However, since most of this debate is based on stereotypes and what people THINK, most people would classify a person with an above average IQ as smart, not nerdy. And as I stated in the previous argument, there is a difference between a smart person and a nerdy person. Typically, a nerd is thought of as a person who knows everything BUT doesn't necessarily have to get good grades. In some cases, like Napoleon Dynamite, the most stereotypical nerd in our world today, a nerd can be is a social outcast and very weird. A smart person would be thought of as just a person who has, as you put it, high IQ.

And to the statement that Asians are nerdier than the general US population, it is not because that they're nerds that they get into better classes and what not. It is because of their work ethic, and pressure from their parents. While it may be true that Asians represent 40% of your AP physics class, is it right to call them nerds? They are working for the benefit of their future. Should the other 60% of the class also be classified as "nerds?" The answer would be no.

And how is Asian representation in AP Physics classes or Ivy League Schools a sign of nerdiness? Should I say that the majoritiy of the people who attend these schools, which are white, are also nerds? No. There is a line between intelligence and nerdiness, and it would be good to differentiate between the two. With this, I oppose the statement that, "Asians are nerdy."
Debate Round No. 3
s0m31john

Pro

My opponent describes a nerd as someone who is socially inept, knows a lot about something, but does not necessarily make good grades. These people are not nerds though. One is called a nerd by non nerds when they draw attention to themselves as being nerdy. The greasy kid in the back of the class room that knows a lot about Naruto and doesn't talk to anyone is not a nerd but rather just a loser. A person gets called a nerd when they do nerdy things, which may very well seems fine to other nerds, like being smart and making good grades. As I have said before, the title of nerd does not have to be a bad thing like my opponent is so eager to make it. It all depends how it is used and who is using it. Imagine these scenarios:

Scenario 1:
You are stuck in a regular liberal arts math class because it is required by your school. This is not your normal setting, around you there are strange people with baggy clothes speaking in jive. Now you like a smart person so what would be accepted in an honors or advanced class, you begin to answer questions the teacher asks. That may not seem nerdy to you but to the people in this particular class it is. Being smart here is the only reason you would be called a nerd.

Scenario 2:
You are in your honors Pre-calc class because you signed up for it. In the class room are your fellow students who were smart enough to advance as far as you in math. Answering questions posed by the teacher is no longer considered nerdy because there is no one there that is in a situation different than you. In order to call you nerdy someone in the class would have to be admitting that they themselves were a nerd. Everyone knows they would be considered nerds by people with less intellect, but it does not bother them because they know nerd does not have to be a bad thing, unlike my opponent.

Yes, some Asians may get into the classes because of parental pressure, but the end result is the same. One can make a cake two different ways but the end result is still a cake. A nerd can become a nerd many different ways (self determination, parental pressure) but in the end they are still a nerd and would be considered one by the people who call people nerds in the first place.

To call the Asians in my AP Physics class would be an honor for them. It would be terrible if they were just considered the same as people who weren't taking that class. Instead they have pushed themselves to acheive greatness, and that deserves a title.

My opponent is having a hard time with statistics I see. She asks if we should consider the other 60% of the people in my class as nerds and I would say yes. The statistics still work out in my favor. Let's look at the results:

My town has a population of 60,894 people. Asians make up 3.38%. 67.22% of the population is white.

In the class Asians have a representation of about %40.
In the class Whites have a representation of about %60.

See how that works? Asians make up a tiny portion of my city's population yet they have a huge comparative representation in the AP Physics class. Whites make up almost %70 of my city's population, and as suspected they have about equal representation in the class. Asians manage to have 10x the representation in a very nerdy class while Whites can't even manage 1x representation.

The same thing can be done with the Ivy League school statistics.

Now it's time for some more statistics.

Temple City California, where the Asian Debate.org member PoeJoe lives, has a population of 33,377. 38.89% of that are Asians. On their Wikipedia it states

"The Temple City Board of Education labels their district as "A District of Distinguished Schools" because all the schools in the Temple City district have been deemed a distinguished school by the State of California meaning that Temple City Schools are in a higher percentile in categories such as academics, behavior, and other such categories." [1]

Kissimmee Florida, with a clear majority while population, didn't get special mention of their school or student intelligence.

The city of Cupertino California has a population of 50,546. 44.44% of that population is Asian. Their Wikipedia page again has it's own section for education where they are praised.

"Cupertino is very well known for its high achieving primary and secondary schools. For example, Faria Elementary School is the number one ranked elementary public school in the state of California, per California API test scores. Kennedy Middle School is the third best in the state.Furthermore, Monta Vista High School is ranked number 23 out of all the public schools in the nation." [2]

Daily City California has a 50.69% Asian population.[3] Their High School are chocked full of nerdy goodness. In fact they do so many things the Wikipedia page for their high school is longer than the page for my entire city. They offer a ton of advanced classes never offered to me and they have so many organized groups it's not even funny. [4]

Asians are nerdy, let's not beat around the bush. I have show in this debate through various statistics and real life applications that proportionally Asians are nerdier in proportion to the general population of the United States. My opponent has just been struggling to deny the fact that being smart does make one a nerd. I do not know why though, it's not a bad thing.

VOTE PRO

[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org...
[2] - http://en.wikipedia.org...
[3] - http://en.wikipedia.org...
[4] - http://en.wikipedia.org...
asiansarentnerdy

Con

Okay, throughtout the entire fourth round, my opponent has just basically given only statistics proving the percentage of Asians in "nerdy" classes. I would just like to say again, what makes those AP classes nerdy? If you want to get ahead in high school and college which would enable you to get a better future, why is that considered nerdy? I would consider that good planning, not nerdiness. Perhaps, is my opponent indirectly saying that those who push themselves harder, have higher grades and better classes are nerds? I would consider that an unfair accusation, even though, as my opponent puts it, being nerdy does not have to be a bad thing. I'm just pointing out that these people in the AP classes are not nessicarily nerds. It would be judging a book by its cover, if you assumed that any Asian you saw was nerdy.
Referring back to your example in your previous round about the black man who was a criminal, would it be fair to look at any random black person on the streets and consider him/her a criminal?

Looking at my opponent's statistics, all he has given are the percentage of Asians in that region, and their academic excellence. However, he has not provided any sort of evidence of relation between the two. So what if 40% of the population in that area is Asian and their schools are excellent? You could say the same thing about any other race too. There are no direct relations between the two.

Furthermore, a school's excellence is not based on the Asian population only. If all the Asians in a school excelled in their learning environments but the others all failed or had low grades, the school would not be considered an "excellent" school. In the schools that my opponent has provided me statistics about, I can guarantee that they would not be considered "excellent" if only the Asian students excelled.

Now, on to my own points.
Asians are not nerdier than the rest of the US population. I would like to refer back to the list of stereotypes my opponent listed in Round 2. The second stereotype, which states that Asians have strict parents, is true. I would not like to deny this fact, but rather use it to prove why Asians are generally thought of as nerdy. The strict Asians parents want their children to have better futures, to have them study harder, make better grades and consequentlly get a better job in the future. Therefore, the majoritiy of Asian parents stress the importance of school and education. Asian kids are under their parent's rule stereotypically. Their parents are the driving force of their straight A's, superb SAT and ACT scores, AP classes, and their Ivy League college wants (referring back to the list my opponent made in R2).

Generally, this is what causes them to be stereotyped as nerdy, but they are not. It is their hard work ethics and good grades that make them what they are: smart, but not nerdy.

Therefore the statement that "Asians are nerdy" is proved false.

Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 4
52 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by xiaotianZ 7 years ago
xiaotianZ
"See. Asians are even good at speaking jive. WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE NOT GOOD AT?
Driving."
dude, john... have you been to china lately?.... i can drive, but those people in china are street ninjas!
they drive in and out of tiny spaces like jackie cheng fighting in a warehouse full of random crap.
and dude:
asian 1: hey, i got 2320 on my SAT!
asian 2: i got 2350!
asian 1: damn!
asian 3: f**k! i got an A- in english. s**t, my parents are gonna kill me."
haha! so damn accurate...
i'm asian to!!! chinese, but i love japanese mangas HIRUMA is awesome! look up eyeshield 21 and slam dunk! best mangas ever!! (also naruto, one piece, bobobobobobobo(i like it) and a great deal more...)
Posted by asiansarentnerdy 8 years ago
asiansarentnerdy
@barbequechickensandwich: don't all racial jokes deal with stereotypes? :O
But, I think that stereotypes will always exist...so maybe its kind of pointless denying them? I don't know, really...but still..
Posted by Zephyr 8 years ago
Zephyr
I would like to criticize a statement you made.
"My town has a population of 60,894 people. Asians make up 3.38%. 67.22% of the population is white.
In the class Asians have a representation of about %40.
In the class Whites have a representation of about %60.
See how that works? Asians make up a tiny portion of my city's population yet they have a huge comparative representation in the AP Physics class. Whites make up almost %70 of my city's population, and as suspected they have about equal representation in the class. Asians manage to have 10x the representation in a very nerdy class while Whites can't even manage 1x representation."

Your statisitics are involves solely one class in your school. There could be another AP Physics class with more white people. Also, there is the coincidence that there are a lot of Asians in your one class. The other AP Physics class might not have any Asians. Since you can't be sure, you cannot really use this statement as a statisitc. And what if there were African American and Hispanic students in the "so called nerdy" AP classes?
Posted by barbequechickensandwich 8 years ago
barbequechickensandwich
Reading this debate and considering PRO's arguments... I can call any random African American I see in the street a CRIMINAL!! Sad world... filled with stereotypes... by the way, I know racial jokes about: White people, Black people, Hispanics, Latinos, Middle Easterners ( of course, I think they are all wrong because they all have stereotypes in them)
Posted by alex117 8 years ago
alex117
hey Pro, I think you are being a little bit stereotypical here...
Posted by karththegeld 8 years ago
karththegeld
Alls I got to say is: what's wrong with that stereotype?
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
Stereotypes exist for a reason. Get off your high horse.
Posted by Meganrihanne1992x 8 years ago
Meganrihanne1992x
"asains are nerdy" what a stereotypical & immature arguement to state.
Posted by trendem 8 years ago
trendem
I am s0m31john's alternate account, so it's only natural I'll vote for myself!

As I understood the debate, Pro and Con fundamentally disagreed on the definitions, and it seemed to me that whoever upheld his definition as superior would win. Pro's definition came from a dictionary, and Pro gave other reasoning in its support. That's why I voted Pro.
Posted by asiansarentnerdy 8 years ago
asiansarentnerdy
If you're asian too, why'd you vote for the side that tried to prove that asians are nerdy? lol just wondering...no offense or anything....
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