The Instigator
MeganLoaskia
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
Marauder
Con (against)
Winning
18 Points

Assisted suicide should not be a crime.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/16/2010 Category: Society
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,360 times Debate No: 11450
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (11)
Votes (5)

 

MeganLoaskia

Pro

I will present my first case when an opponent accepts :) good Luck.
Marauder

Con

I will be courteous and will follow Pro suit by also waiting for round two to start.
Debate Round No. 1
MeganLoaskia

Pro

I thank my opponent for taking me up in this debate :)

I feel very strongly on the opposition of the following statement.

Now a lot of people can look at assisted suicide as inhuman, uncalled for and many believe that it should be outlawed.
Firstly to clarify what i mean by - Assisted Suicide, i mean someone who helps either the patient/person kill them self or they do it them self

Some people who are physically or mentally ill are usually incapable or frightened of killing them self, therefore want someone to do it for them.
As a liberal society we should look at this from the victims perspective and how damaged they must feel not knowing how long they are going to live? When the pains going to stop?, So why is it taken in such a crude way?.

Very few places have legalised assisted suicide, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Switzerland and three American states.
Many people can find Justifiable arguments why assisted suicide and euthanasia should be illegal, yet alot fail to find real substantial causes to support their argument, Many believe suicide is wrong therefore assisted suicide is wrong, Many question the Mark ( person carrying out the suicide ) motives although in 90% of circumstances they are seen as understandable and NOT an attempt of murder.

Why cant the victim have a choice what they want to do with their life?, Its is an individuals choice to decide how they are cared for This includes being able, if they wish, to end their lives because of chronic and incurable pain and suffering.

Although there has been many vast improvements in medicare there are conditions for which it can't relieve suffering, such as motor neuron disease, this means the victims life has been put on hold and could be facing living the next years of their life in pain.

Im not saying euthanasia/assisted suicide should be use in all cases of illness, but i do believe it should be a choice for people who are desperately ill so they are reassured

Death is an option that people should have because death is similar to the options we already have. We are allowed to take risky choices for our own benefit, such as tobacco, or alcohol, as long as we know the consequences of the act. Similarly, choosing death is one form of choice that has benefits with minimal risk, and we do not see why death is an exception.

Moreover i know this is a very controversial and opinionated topic but i do believe terminally ill patients and people in ma jor desperation should have the right to able to commit suicide. or atleast have the choice and maximise their limits, Life is now treated as if it is a sanctuary and nobody should violate it and choose death until nature ends your life. However, life is not an ultimate value. The weight of life varies f rom one person to another. In other words, life is just a relative value and thus the right to death can be one of the options for the citizens.

I apologize for a very full first round and for my spelling mistakes as mnot on a very good computer at the moment.
I look forward for my opponents rebuttal :)

-Sources;
http://news.bbc.co.uk...
http://www.coursework.info...
Marauder

Con

Your first round was rather empty as this is round two. Do not worry about your spelling mistakes as its a safe bet that I will make more even on the best computer ;)

"Some people who are physically or mentally ill are usually incapable...."
Thank God. I am a trained EMT, and I can tell you that people who are deemed mentally ill have no right to choice in rejection of treatment for regular injury's that are not related to a suicide attempt. or even the choice to not go to the hospital. Why? because there mind is not in its best shape, and it is considered negligent to leave them uncared for and we know someone called us to the scene even if it wasn't the injured person. What are some good indicators of mental illness? well desire for suicide is one, so we have a self sustaining circle that keeps adheeding to there choice of death an option for us. The only way to be out of the circle with that choice is if you made it ahead of time with a DNR order and we find the DNR tag on your neck. such decisions are considered in your good mental state and they are not request for suicide, just a peaceful death when the time naturally comes.
".... or frightened of killing them self, therefore want someone to do it for them."
There is a good reason they are frightened of it. Fear is our body warning us of something quite often, the fact that so many have this fear in common show it is not irrational fear caused by mental illness.

"As a liberal society we should look at this from the victims perspective and how damaged they must feel not knowing how long they are going to live? When the pains going to stop?, So why is it taken in such a crude way?."
They have asked for something crazy. with the logic that they desire no more pain, and equated that with death. but death is so much more than lack of pain. and pain sometimes ends in this life without the aid of death.

This testimony comes from other EMS members I know who have been it way longer than I have. You remember the DNR order I mentioned? well even in those cases were it seems its time to die and the person has a DNR there have been cases that the individual with the DNR have used what breath and strength they had to grab the EMT and get out the words 'I want to live'. one individual had the DNR logo tattooed to his chest http://justinsomnia.org... just so the EMT's wouldn't miss when they came but changes there mind when the moment of truth comes.
This shows us that a decision for death perspectively has a tendency to change right before its about to happen. what if someone asked for you to invoke there suicide and after its about to happen they have lost any ability to let you know they are changing there mind. If we are to accept ones right to choose death in any situation it can only be done by the individual themselves, for they have to keep there commitment all the way to the moment the deed is done. the know there thoughts. there can be no failure to communicate a change of mind.

"The weight of life varies f rom one person to another. In other words, life is just a relative value....."
Uh, No. Just because I end up with more responsibilities on my back than you do does not make it less valuable, or more valuable. Just because you might have a deeper hole you have to dig yourself out of in life does not make yours more or less valuable than mine. You are worth something simply because 'you are.'
The reason life is treated as inherently valuable is because it is. it is from this foundation that we learn that things like slavery or any form of social inequality are wrong, the situation of another does not make them less than us in respect to life so we should be humane in our treatment of others. Breaking this foundational holding by justifying suicide of course will not lead back to these evils immediately but every great evil starts with a more unnoticeable evil. the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

"Im not saying euthanasia/assisted suicide should be use in all cases of illness, but i do believe it should be a choice for people who are desperately ill so they are reassured"
reassured of what? that things will be good for them after there suicide?

"Death is an option that people should have because death is similar to the options we already have. We are allowed to take risky choices for our own benefit, such as tobacco, or alcohol, as long as we know the consequences of the act."
We know absolutely nothing about the consequences of death. have you died before? was it for 3 days? a week? tell me what it is like. tell me of someone who knows for sure deaths mysteries. what happens after Death is as unknown as it gets for the world.

http://familydoctor.org...
Debate Round No. 2
MeganLoaskia

Pro

MeganLoaskia forfeited this round.
Marauder

Con

All my arguments extend.

Also to deal with concerns brought up that the value of life is purely from religious sources I would like to point out that so is morality of mercy witch is also a pivotal need in the justification in assisted suicide. If I am wrong on that I haven't seen my opponent contradict that statement this debate.
If I have to prove the Immorality/Morality of preservation of life or suicide then it is just as much upon my opponent to have show the Morality/Immorality of mercy for those that are suffering, and the system that is used to promote that claim cannot also support the Immorality of suicide. My opponent though has left the morality mercy just as much assumed as I can ever leave it assumed that the immorality of suicide is self-evedent.

I know of no religious takes that does not support both.

I do know of a non-religious take that supports the intrinsic value of human life though. http://virtusetvita.wordpress.com...
Debate Round No. 3
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rodriguez47 6 years ago
Rodriguez47
If someone takes their own life that means they wanted it.
Someone could be in a desperate situation and be rash i understand that, but that's their fault (not the situation of course but the decision).
Moreover the idea of Suicide be wrong or bad, comes solely from religious text & beliefs. That taking your own life isn't you're choice....ITS YOUR LIFE!
Now one way to look at it, is some one can kill another and say it was assisted suicide; that can be a problem (but how many people actually want to commit such an act)

@ Marauder: It is a perspective change for those to understand, to me its ignorant not to consider ones suffering.

@ Koopin: I will vote Fairly.
Posted by Marauder 6 years ago
Marauder
@Rodriguez47: if you think about, making it not a crime for self induced suicide just takes perspective change. what will the police do when they see you have commited this crime? throw your corpse in jail?

also, you think I have more points? :)
Posted by Marauder 6 years ago
Marauder
Korashk, I get that your an athiest and you need to cling to that philosophy concerning god and ingnoring people who have 'felt' his presence but it does not apply hear. The EMS agents experence is not personal in the sense of something he has felt. Its simply a report of what has actually happened. No matter how much we may reason how reality works, when we see it working contrary to that in some way we know somethings up with this, and need to change our view to adapt.

Unless your trying to say its not evedience cause my EMS instructor is a liar, in witch case it makes it just as reasonable for me to claim any scientest you qoute a liar in a debate we might have over Young Earth Creationism. (and some YEC do accuse this)
Posted by Koopin 6 years ago
Koopin
Rodriguez47, I encourage you to vote fairly.
Posted by Korashk 6 years ago
Korashk
///This testimony comes from other EMS members I know who have been it way longer than I have. You remember the DNR order I mentioned? well even in those cases were it seems its time to die and the person has a DNR there have been cases that the individual with the DNR have used what breath and strength they had to grab the EMT and get out the words 'I want to live'.///

Unsubstantiated arguments from personal experiences are not evidence.
Posted by Rodriguez47 6 years ago
Rodriguez47
I think those who want to end their own suffering shouldn't be a crime; and all those who oppose, and want people to suffer through life should be burned alive. Because you're to Ignorant to see their living through pain.
Posted by Rodriguez47 6 years ago
Rodriguez47
I love you Pro.
You got my vote i don't care if con has more point (i don't think he does btw).
So far you the only person who I've met who agrees with the matter.
Posted by belle 6 years ago
belle
what if you want to die by gunshot?

a contract is a good idea, absolutely, but methods should be up to the person, should they not?

there are issues of depression -> suicide and decisions made in haste, but that could be dealt with by instituting a waiting period and possibly evaluation by a p-doc
Posted by Danielle 6 years ago
Danielle
Euthanasia implies a contracts beforehand, I believe, and generally requires an MD to carry it through. This proves that it was premeditated. If shooting someone because they want to die becomes legal, what's to stop someone's defense from being "because they wanted it?" Not to mention that euthanasia is usually done to end physical suffering; shooting someone would cause physical suffering.
Posted by Kinesis 6 years ago
Kinesis
What's the difference?
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by likespeace 4 years ago
likespeace
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Vote Placed by jimloyd 4 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: you still basiclly are killing someone
Vote Placed by MeganLoaskia 6 years ago
MeganLoaskia
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Vote Placed by Marauder 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by Koopin 6 years ago
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