The Instigator
Youdontknowjeff
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Brendan21
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

At a four way stop is it appropriate to wave another driver on even if you arrived at the stop first

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/21/2016 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 173 times Debate No: 89988
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Youdontknowjeff

Con

To many times I come across what I'm sure are well intentioned people who wave for others to move through. I argue this is inappropriate and actually holds traffic up. The stop signs and traffic law exist so no one has to play traffic director in these situations. If one is needed often a police officer fills the roll.

For some reason I find it extremely irritating when someone waves me on. It seems condescending, like they know best and will control the situation.
Brendan21

Pro

Greetings to Con, and thank you for this interesting debate. This is my first debate in a long while so I look forward to it.
I will take the position of Pro, that it can be appropriate for someone to wave another driver on at a four-way stop sign even if they arrived at stop first.

Just for reference, I will state now that I work in the delivery business and have for a number of years, and can totally agree with Con that it can be irritating when someone does so but I contend that it can still be quite appropriate.

I can not argue as to why everyone would wave another person on at a 4-way stop but I will argue that there are good reasons to do so and that they are appropriate reasons. The first thing I can think of is if something fell under either the gas pedal or break pedal, the driver many want to wave another car that has just come to the stop on before reaching to clear the obstruction. Not doing so could lead to a dangerous situation or forcing the other car to wait until you remove what fell and proceed through the intersection.

Another time I know I occasionally will have to wave someone on at a 4-way stop is if I'm having problems with directions suddenly while out for the job and I must look up where I am going on my GPS. It is wasteful for me to proceed through and then look up directions because I may have to turn around and take a left turn where otherwise it would be a right turn.

This is just the first round so I will leave it there for now. I look forward to Con's rebuttal and to the remainder of the debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Youdontknowjeff

Con

Hello to you as well. Thank you for accepting. It's nice to debate something other than the usual.

In the event that something might fall under the accelerator or break pedal it would be best to remove it as soon as possible.
I wouldn't bother waving on another person. As it generally wouldn't take me long to clear the obstruction. I realise some people may not possess my dexterity. However I don't believe this is the case most the time. The typical offenders of this annoyance don't seem to be struggling to do anything. They are sitting calmly with a smug look waving me on.

As far as being lost or problems with phone or gps I suggest pulling off the road. There are also drivers behind you, and it is rude to hold them up as well.

The rule is whoever gets to the stop signs first goes first. If everyone follows this rule, than everyone will have a relatively equal amount of time spent at the 4 way.

When someone breaks traffic rules it creates unsafe situations. It may confuse people. If there are four cars, each at a sign in the four way how clear is it who's being waved on. Following the rules everyone learned when they received their license avoids these situations.
Brendan21

Pro

Thank you Con for your rebuttal.

In the event that something might fall under the accelerator or break pedal it would be best to remove it as soon as possible.
I wouldn't bother waving on another person. As it generally wouldn't take me long to clear the obstruction. I realise some people may not possess my dexterity."

Your dexterity definitely comes into play when bending down to remove an obstruction but I am not sure if you have ever driven a car with a high seat. In vans and trucks bending over to grab something from under the pedal is an enormous pain. Sometimes, depending on the car (such as my own) the wheel can easily block a person from reaching down quickly and they must maneuver in their seat. Waving someone on before attempting this for than appropriate, especially if no one is behind the person at the stop. I do not consider this point negated as of yet.

" The typical offenders of this annoyance don't seem to be struggling to do anything. They are sitting calmly with a smug look waving me on."
Again, I can not argue as to why everyone would wave someone on or that they are going so for a good reason. I can only argue that there are good reasons to wave someone else on.

"As far as being lost or problems with phone or gps I suggest pulling off the road. There are also drivers behind you, and it is rude to hold them up as well."
While I can agree with you that the best course of action is usually to do as you say, depending on the 4-way stop, taking the wrong direction can seriously slow down your estimated time of arrival. When working in the delivery business such as myself, arriving on time can be the difference between a 10 dollar tip and a 2 dollar tip. Sometimes there may not be the option to pullover for another couple blocks. I'd also again like to point of that it is most appropriate to do this when there is no other car behind you. I do not believe that this point has been negated yet either.

"The rule is whoever gets to the stop signs first goes first. If everyone follows this rule, than everyone will have a relatively equal amount of time spent at the 4 way."
This brings me to another point I'd like to make, that sometimes it can be very hard to tell who arrived first and has the right of way. Sometimes it is appropriate to wave some on because you believe that you are arriving at the same time or that you are arrived after them when you really didn't. Another good instance of this is if I arrive at a 4-way stop at the same time as someone on the opposite lane is also arriving or as just arrived and I forgot to turn my left turn signal on, it is appropriate to wave them to go straight so that you can then take your left turn safely.

"When someone breaks traffic rules it creates unsafe situations. It may confuse people. If there are four cars, each at a sign in the four way how clear is it who's being waved on. Following the rules everyone learned when they received their license avoids these situations."
While I agree to this, I also would like to add that it is still the driver's responsibility to be observant and yield to any on-coming traffic. At a four-way stop it is quite easy to avoid any accidents if everyone is paying attention and waits until it is safe for them to go. Waving someone on should not cause an accident as long as everyone else is being an observant driver.

Part of driving is having to deal with unexpected things, such as pedestrians that break the flow of traffic or worse case scenario, something actually jumping out in front of you. Drivers are, at the end of the day, responsible when they hit some one else so just because someone else waved you on inappropriately and leading to an accident does not make it their fault.
Debate Round No. 2
Youdontknowjeff

Con

At a four way stop is it appropriate to wave another driver on even if you arrive at the stop first. This is the question to be answered. While there are extenuating circumstances, I contend it is not appropriate. In general it is conducive to the overall flow of traffic to proceed through the stop in an orderly fashion.
This insures every vehicle entering the stop will have a relatively equal amount of time moving through the stop.

Waving another vehicle through the stop when they've arrived after you breaks the flow of traffic. It holds up the people behind you.

It's true every driver is responsible for their actions. However the laws and rules are there to make transit more efficient and safe. People as individuals without rules cannot always be counted on to make the most cogent decisions. The rules let everyone know the standard by which others are operating. If everyone decided to play authority figure or did their own thing it would be chaos.

Thank for participating in this debate with me. You make excellent points.
Brendan21

Pro

I believe I already raised many good points that have not been adequately negated by Con despite him saying they are only extenuating circumstances. I mentioned a few that came to mind immediately but there are plenty more reasons to wave another person on after you arrived at a stop first and I can think of a few more off the top of my head:
pedestrians waiting to cross and you see no one else is letting them go or you wish to let them go quickly
children in the backseat doing something distracting or dangerous
new/student driver who many be unsure of themselves or what to do
wanting to let the other driver go first since they are driving aggressively or fast prior to arriving at a the stop
check engine light/gas light just came out and driver is trying to plan accordingly
waiting for a passenger (most likely a child) to put on seat belt or put it back on
car trouble/flat tire and they are planning on pulling over after you go but don't wish to proceed with 4-way stop slowly while you wait

There are probably about a hundred reasons why some one would wave someone on and yes it does break the flow of traffic but it is still appropriate for humans to accommodate each other the best we can, especially when on the road when it can be a matter of life and death. I've already explained why an accident should not happen even with a driver waving another driver on at a 4-way stop as long as everyone is paying attention as they should be when behind the wheel.

I do not believe that Con has proved it inappropriate for people to wave another driver on at a 4-way stop and I have given appropriate reasons to do so. I urge a vote for Pro in this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Brendan21 10 months ago
Brendan21
Thank you to Con for creating a great debate again and best of luck in the voting period.
No votes have been placed for this debate.