The Instigator
Stupidape
Pro (for)
Winning
8 Points
The Contender
xPrtN00bSn1p3r
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

At least some non-human animals oughta be treated equal to humans.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Stupidape
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/15/2015 Category: Society
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 278 times Debate No: 83928
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (3)

 

Stupidape

Pro

There is no good reason to disrespect animals. Animals are sentient and mistreating them paves the way for human oppression. Why animals that can pass the mirror test of recognition are still seen as private property makes no sense to me.
xPrtN00bSn1p3r

Con

Pro says there is no good reason to disrespect animals but respecting animals is the positive act and thus the burden of proof lies on those suggesting proactiveness as opposed to those supporting inaction.

Disrespect in the context that Pro is using it is merely lacking respect. The condition he give sia mirror test, not only would this mean that blind humans or humans who are severely mentally or visually impaired would fail it but it also means that Pro is irrationally setting sight recognition as a factor in sentience; it is not. You can even program a robot to recognize itself in a mirror. [http://www.bbc.co.uk...]

The simple truth is that since there is no way to prove sentience of animals since they cannot communicate it or seem to be able to make rationally-based decision as opposed to impulse-based ones, the resolution holds false.
Debate Round No. 1
Stupidape

Pro

Animals have plenty of ways of communicating. Think of service and hunting dogs just for starters. The mirror test is just one of many tests. In some ways chimps are smarter than humans. [1] My opponent has not addressed my r1 claim " Animals are sentient and mistreating them paves the way for human oppression."

Animals are sentient according to the scientific evidence. New Zealand recognizes animal sentience [3].

Links.
1. http://animals.io9.com...
2. http://www.livescience.com...
3. http://www.worldanimalprotection.org.nz...
xPrtN00bSn1p3r

Con

They are sentient but far less so than humans are so thus shouldn't be treated equal.

Intelligence of a less conscious being is not relevant, I wouldn't say to mistreat someone based on their intelligence or lack thereof is sufficient justification.

According to Plato it's actually impossible to prove that anything other than human is conscious to a human due to the subjective nature in which we interpret consciousness [http://plato.stanford.edu...] but according to mot scientists animals are consious but just far less so than humans are. Your source merely states that animals do have some degree of consciousness to feel pain but doesn't address or deny the fact that they are not nearly as capable of conscious thought and feeling as humans are.
Debate Round No. 2
Stupidape

Pro

First, Plato did not have access to modern technology. MRI scans of the brain and whatnot.

"Born circa 428 B.C.E., ancient Greek philosopher Plato was a student of Socrates and a teacher of Aristotle." [4]

"Your source merely states that animals do have some degree of consciousness to feel pain but doesn't address or deny the fact that they are not nearly as capable of conscious thought and feeling as humans are." xPrtN00bSn1p3r

Pigs are capable of feeling pain at least the same intensity as humans. I contend that as long as animals are able to feel pain at least at the same level as humans, it shouldn't matter how intelligent animals are. [6] So, a pig or an elephant might not be able to pass as many tests for sentience as a human. Yet, how is this relevant?

Would we send comatose patients to vivisection labs [5] just because they are less conscious? No, so why humans do such deeds to animals is beyond me.

Links
4. http://www.biography.com...
5. https://en.wikipedia.org...
6. https://www.psychologytoday.com...
xPrtN00bSn1p3r

Con

xPrtN00bSn1p3r forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Peepette 1 year ago
Peepette
RFD: S&G tied. Conduct to PRO.
PRO Animals are sentient and can pass a mirror test.
CON rebuts it"s irrational to base sentience on mirror recognition; visually & mentally impaired people would fail, and robots recognize themselves.
CON Animals cannot make rational decisions. This is not rebutted by PRO
mistreatment of animals leads to human oppression is not addressed by CON
Con rebuts since communication and rationally based decision making is lacking over impulse, animal sentience is false.
PRO states communication does occur, examples and link to affirm point provided (P1).
CON Less so than humans thus should not be treated as equals; cites Plato. PRO rebuts MRI"s not present in Plato"s time, animals feeling pain is evident. This factor is sufficient over intelligence.
Overall there were good rebuttal to points on both sides but, CON failed to address animal mistreatment leading to human oppression and also failed to rebut PROs final points on animal communication and ability to feel pain. No rebuttal to final issues due to FF
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Midnight1131 1 year ago
Midnight1131
StupidapexPrtN00bSn1p3rTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Peepette 1 year ago
Peepette
StupidapexPrtN00bSn1p3rTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 1 year ago
dsjpk5
StupidapexPrtN00bSn1p3rTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff a round, so conduct to Pro.