The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Capitalistslave
Con (against)
Winning
2 Points

Atheism is Stupidity and Based on Imaginings having no Basis in Facts.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Capitalistslave
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,636 times Debate No: 99197
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (50)
Votes (2)

 

FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Deer2 Soooo Sad, Athiest are like ..... Deer caught in the Headlights!

What a lonely state to find oneself! Attend me brothers and sisters, hear the plight of those to whom all pity is to be given. This is a people, without hope? Without Faith, Without Forgiveness? Without common sense? With no visible nor foreseeable lifeline whatsoever! More is the pity, let our hearts be humbled for so too were we all, once upon a time. Let us turn our eyes to Heaven in utter thanks to Him who saves. Let us stand encircled around the damned and cast our lines into the tank of hopelessness which is the Life of atheism, and God willing let us snatch up and set the hook of reason, in a final attempt to shake them loose from their long slumber.

To you who accept this debate, you shall defend that which cannot "be" defended, the lunacy which is atheism. I of course shall demonstrate and define your madness.

If all goes as usual I shall lose this debate because the doomed will as history has shown, fail again to ascend to the elusive state of reason, choosing instead to "remain in their comatose state" still, if I can awaken even 1, the loss is well worth it.

Capitalistslave

Con

Since my opponent didn't offer a definition of atheism, I shall do so now.

Atheism: "Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods." [1]

My opponent claims atheism is stupidity and has no basis in facts. However, I contend that the most logical position to have on a specific topic when there is a lack of evidence, is to have a lack of belief. I have never seen any evidence presented in my lifetime of a god, so it is most logical to have a lack of belief in all gods. Unless pro can offer up some evidence of a god, it is not stupid to have a lack of belief in a god.

All of the arguments in round 1 from my opponent don't seem to make any logical sense. Atheists can have hope and faith in a lot of things, they just don't have it in a god. Atheists experience forgiveness from other people all of the time when they have wronged someone. Sometimes they don't, as some people are unforgiving, but I'm sure most atheists have experienced it when someone forgave them.
Source:
[1] https://en.oxforddictionaries.com...
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Atheist beware- You are on notice, the intelligent of the world have tolerated you long enough. Braggarts, dimwitted in the extreme, proud to be called Atheist. Not anymore! We shall investigate the evidence together, before the very eyes of all atheist present now or future. Today shall empirical evidence of atheistic stupidity be made manifest. Today, let atheist be not so proud to "BE" atheist as it shall forever be synonymous with "fools"

(Con) Since my opponent didn't offer a definition of atheism, I shall do so now.

Sigh …. Like a Deer in the headlights! So sad, SIGH! Do you really need MORE evidence than provided by Con already?


Behold …. The definition was IN the title … obviously I failed to take into consideration that an atheist would be responding. my mistake. Allow me to rectify this ….. ATHEISM IS STUPIDITY!

At this point it has become less opinion and more FACT, that Atheism is in point of fact. Not ignorance but stupidity:

I submit for the BENEFIT of atheist-Definitions as provided by Merriam-Webster

Definition of stupid:
A: Slow of mind: obtuse- “like not catching that Atheism is stupidity IS the title!”

B: Given to unintelligent decisions or acts: Acting in an unintelligent or careless manner. – “Like pointing out lack of definitions, that most could just READ in the title!”

C: Lacking intelligence or reason: brutish- “Ditto”

D: Dulled in feeling or sensation: torpid “Numb?” I suppose.

E: Marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting: senseless "All the above!"

F: Lacking interest or point “Ditto”

G: Vexatious or exasperating. “ Uhh …. You think?”

Definition of ignorance:
: The state of being ignorant: Lack of knowledge, education, or awareness –Reading con’s history proves education not a problem?

Definition of Imbecile:
: Fool, idiot - I left #2 out as not appropriate. referred to mental retardation which atheist are not.

I submit that atheist, cannot claim lack of knowledge; as knowledge is readily at their disposal. They are … at least the majority, not only educated but well educated. They certainly are sentient, aware of their mortality, surroundings and beliefs. Thus ignorance is clearly off the table, leaving only one of two possible conclusions, neither of which I’ll wager, brings that glow of pride!

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist.

Arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to social and historical approaches. Rationales for not believing in deities include arguments that there is a lack of empirical evidence, the problem of evil; the argument from inconsistent revelations, the rejection of concepts that cannot be falsified, and the argument from nonbelief. Although some atheists have adopted secular philosophies (eg. secular humanism), there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere. Many atheists hold that atheism is a more parsimonious worldview than theism and therefore that the burden of proof lies not on the atheist to disprove the existence of God but on the theist to provide a rationale for theism.

We shall take these one at a time, and let the FACTS, fall where they may. Ready?

1: Lack of empirical evidence:
FACT-atheist refuse to look FOR evidence themselves in all cases, demanding instead that it be done for them (Under the False belief of #6 and #7). However, once provided they revert to problem #4 on this list.
FACT: Atheism is less than 1% of the Global belief (based on Census 2010)
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Evidence proving Pro’s allegations thoughtfully provided by Con:

Con: My opponent claims atheism is stupid and has no basis in facts. However I contend that the most logical position to have on a specific topic when there is a lack of evidence is to have a lack of belief.

Note* 99.98% of the Global population is in or searching to connect WITH God right now …. But, evidence of possible existence of God? Nope, not to the atheist!

Con: I have never seen any evidence presented in my lifetime of a God, so it is most logical to have a lack of belief in all Gods.

Note* two theories here? Born last night, or has lived under a rock since birth. The link above has BEEN there since 2010, so unless Con is 6 years old …. No excuse.

Con: Unless Pro can offer up some evidence of a God, it is stupid to have a lack of belief in a God.

Note* Demands I do the work for him? …. Are we learning yet?

Con: All the arguments in round 1 from my opponent don’t seem to make any logical sense.

Note* Can't make sense IF YOU PEOPLE DON'T LOOK!

Con: Atheist can have hope and faith in a lot of things, they just don’t have it in God.
Note* Can't find God UNLESS YOU LOOK!

2. The problem of evil: FACT- atheist ARE the performers of Evil! Course once they’re in prison, they do get religious, quick, fast and in a hurry don’t they. Do you know that now only 0.7 of the prison population are atheist NOW? Hmmm I’ll have to find that statistic some where. Radical Islam included in this group. Nuts, you know.

3. The argument from inconsistent revelations: FACT- To presume NO HELL exist solely based on peoples differing views on Hell, is unintelligent, reckless and extremely careless behavior when it is obvious upon reflection, that the only conflict arrives from the severity of punishment, not that there will NOT be one. To default to no agreement no Hell, clearly demonstrates lack of reason.

4. The rejections of concepts that cannot be falsified: FACT- to deny empirical evidence that is simply NOT deniable is imbecilic at worse, Stupid at best.

Con: My opponent claims atheism is stupid and has no basis in facts. However I contend that the most logical position to have on a specific topic when there is a lack of evidence is to have a lack of belief.

Con: I have never seen any evidence presented in my lifetime of a God, so it is most logical to have a lack of belief in all Gods.

Con: Unless Pro can offer up some evidence of a God, it is stupid to have a lack of belief in a God.

Con: Atheist can have hope and faith in a lot of things; they just don’t have it in God.

Note* Direct evidence that Con and all other atheist, “NEVER BOTHERED TO LOOK” demanding empirical evidence, but refusing to acknowledge them even when they cannot BE DENIED!

5.The argument for non-belief:
FACT: A philosophical argument that asserts inconsistency between existence of God and the World in which people fail to recognize Him, cannot seriously be considered facts for nonexistence! As has been shown and verified by record, the largest part of humanity not ONLY recognizes Him, but is either in active worship of Him, or are continuing their search FOR Him.

That 1.1 Billion people (atheist) cannot recognize Him, (as has been established and demonstrated Atheist DO NOT LOOK!) when 6.67 Billion people CAN is obviously not an intelligible argumentwhen based on fact.

Con: My opponent claims atheism is stupid and has no basis in facts. However I contend that the most logical position to have on a specific topic when there is a lack of evidence is to have a lack of belief.

Con: I have never seen any evidence presented in my lifetime of a God, so it is most logical to have a lack of belief in all Gods.

Con: Atheist can have hope and faith in a lot of things, they just don’t have it in God.

Con: Unless Pro can offer up some evidence of a God, it is stupid to have a lack of belief in a God.

6.Many atheist hold that atheism is a more parsimonious worldview than Theism: FACT- 6.67 Billion Theist is hemispheres away from 1.1 Billion atheist, clearly had one BOTHERED to live in the real world rather than the cage of their mind, thay would have easily known THE TRUTH. Nope not the atheist, their just on cruise control through life, until of course they crash and yes BURN! Snap out of it people, before it’s too late!

You see atheist, the Theist are the worldview, not atheism, in accordance with requirement for Burden of proof, it falls to YOU, to show “God doesn’t exist” and that atheism is the correct view, not our Burden, because we are the statis que, NOT YOU!

in closing you simply must wake up now atheist:
Your eternity is only a heartbeat away!
-a car crash
-a stray Bullet
-an unexpected stroke
-You have an appointment and you are going to die on time!
-No accidents in Gods Kingdom
-Where WILL you find yourself? How sure are you
-What IS the basis of your conviction?

Your right to choose ends upon your death, I KNOW. Can you truly say the same? The responsibility is yours, as is its consequence.People want to make it someone else's job to "prove" Gods existence too THEM. Wrong my friend, I have no such requirement, Mine is to tell you as is required in Ezekiel 3:18-19

18When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for[b] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself.

Consider yourselves so warned. Seek Him while He may yet BE found.



One atheist complained that I need to keep everything in less than 5 paragraphs .... made it hard for him to concentrate ... so let me give you friendly advise.

Go one paragraph at a time and take notes .... K? ......K!





Capitalistslave

Con

I'll just offer rebuttals to most things my opponent has said:

"like not catching that Atheism is stupidity IS the title!”
No, I just ignored it because it's baseless and insulting. I caught that you said this in the title. I don't see how I wouldn't have.
“Like pointing out lack of definitions, that most could just READ in the title!”
What was said in the title is not a definition, but a claim as to what describes atheism. Saying something IS something, is not defining it. For example, if I said a cheetah is orange, that is not defining the cheetah as orange, it's describing its attributes, everyone knows a cheetah is a species of feline and the definition of a cheetah is not orange.

Now, moving on to the numbered points by my opponent:

1. lack of empirical evidence FACT-atheist refuse to look FOR evidence themselves in all cases, demanding instead that it be done for them
I was actually once a theist, and I am constantly in search of evidence. I ask others for evidence because I have yet to find any, and I would assume that people who are theists believe in a god because they have found evidence, so I ask them to present it in hopes that they have something which proves a god exists. Science relies on multiple people corroborating, so that's what I do when I ask someone for evidence. Either way, what you said is baseless, as you provided no evidence that atheists refuse to look for evidence. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And no, I am not too lazy to look for evidence of atheists refusing to look for evidence, nor am I refusing to look for evidence that atheists refuse to look for evidence. All of my experiences indicate that atheists have tried all of the same things theists have done in order to find evidence.

Note* 99.98% of the Global population is in or searching to connect WITH God right now …. But, evidence of possible existence of God? Nope, not to the atheist!
Indeed, and I am one of them. I have yet to find any evidence of a god with my searching. People believing in something is not evidence it exists.

Note* two theories here? Born last night, or has lived under a rock since birth. The link above has BEEN there since 2010, so unless Con is 6 years old …. No excuse.
I assume you're referring to that wikipedia link about the percent of atheists in the world. I've known about how many atheists are in the world for a long time, so you're just insulting for a baseless claim again. Claiming that something is true because majority believe in it is an argumentum ad populum. Surely you knew this right? The below link[2] has been around for many years too; arguing that because majority believe something, therefore it is true, is a fallacious argument.

Demands I do the work for him? …. Are we learning yet?
There is no work involved. If you've already found evidence of a god, all you'd have to do is present it. How hard is it to present evidence that you've already found? Also, I've been doing work for a long time on finding out if a god exists. I've already done much work and continue to do so.

Note* Can't find God UNLESS YOU LOOK!
Prove that I've not been looking. You can't. I claim that I have been looking.

2. The problem of evil: FACT- atheist ARE the performers of Evil! Course once they’re in prison, they do get religious, quick, fast and in a hurry don’t they.
Note how my opponent once again offers unsubstantiated claims. No evidence whatsoever of this, and in my research, I've not found anything that confirms atheists convert once in prison. Just do a google search yourself, and you'll see there is nothing on the matter of people converting once in prison.

3. The argument from inconsistent revelations:
Yet there are also people who believe in no hell or no god. Also, I've never made this claim, and you didn't offer evidence that a lot of atheists make this claim, so this seems to be a pointless argument.

4. The rejections of concepts that cannot be falsified:
I argue that there is nothing which cannot be falsified.

Note* Direct evidence that Con and all other atheist, “NEVER BOTHERED TO LOOK” demanding empirical evidence, but refusing to acknowledge them even when they cannot BE DENIED!
None of the quotes you offered from me is evidence that I never bothered to look. Again, baseless claims.

5.The argument for non-belief: FACT: A philosophical argument that asserts inconsistency between existence of God and the World in which people fail to recognize Him, cannot seriously be considered facts for nonexistence! As has been shown and verified by record, the largest part of humanity not ONLY recognizes Him, but is either in active worship of Him, or are continuing their search FOR Him.
I never claimed these were facts for nonexistence. This is a strawman as is most of what you're saying in this round. Number 4 was a strawman, as I never said I rejected concepts that can't be falsified, and I never made the claim in number 3. So, three strawman arguments in counting from this debate so far.

(as has been established and demonstrated Atheist DO NOT LOOK!)
That hasn't been established actually. You offered no scientific study on whether atheists look for evidence, no examples, etc. You merely assumed that I don't look, when I claim that I have. There's no reason to believe you, and there's no reason to believe me either. However, we do generally believe a person is innocent until proven guilty, which you haven't proven me guilty of not looking for evidence of a deity. Heck, I could disprove that claim right now as I can do a google search of "evidence of a god" for you [3]. I clearly had to type in "evidence of a god" so I just looked for evidence of a god. You can't claim I have never looked for it.

6.Many atheist hold that atheism is a more parsimonious worldview than Theism: FACT- 6.67 Billion Theist is hemispheres away from 1.1 Billion atheist, clearly had one BOTHERED to live in the real world rather than the cage of their mind, thay would have easily known THE TRUTH. Nope not the atheist, their just on cruise control through life, until of course they crash and yes BURN! Snap out of it people, before it’s too late!
I think you don't know what parsimonious means. What you said here makes no sense at all pertaining to what parsimonious means: It means, "Very unwilling to spend money or use resources"[4] What you said doesn't have anything to do with spending money or resources.




Debate Round No. 2
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive! Sir Walter Scott

Con - Prove that I've not been looking. You can't. I claim that I have been looking.

Proof con is untruthful, and has NOT ever been a theist, or looking for any God. Prevaricator!

Con supports:

1.Implicit atheism.

2. Supporting islamic terrorist.- What kind of thing are you, that you support terrorist?

3. Supporting Pedophiles not be stigmatized. – You support child rapist? What animal are you?

4. Supporting Pedophiles should be treated with more respect.- You support child rapist? What animal are you?

5. Children 5 years or older should be allowed to consent to sexual activity.You would turn 5 year ol children into sex objects? Then turn Pedophiles loose on our children?

Couldn’t FIND God you say? Color ME Shocked! Really, you couldn’t find God …. I wonder why?

6. Known alleged rape victims should not immediately be believed.- You’ve NO DECENCY! Why would God acknowledge you?

7. Incestuous marriages should be legal. – You’ve no morality what so ever. No restraint, seeking Fleshly desires, not Godly! Trickster

8. Transgendered people are mentally ill.

http://www.debate.org...

90 Debates ….. only 7 on religion and ALL against!

So much for your :

Con- All of my experiences indicate that atheists have tried all of the same things theists have done in order to find evidence.

Con- I was actually once a theist, and I am constantly in search of evidence. - fabricator, fibber, storyteller

Con- I ask others for evidence because I have yet to find any.- Deciever

Con- so I ask them to present it in hopes that they have something which proves a god exists.- Oh Please, false witness, perjurer

Con- Science relies on multiple people corroborating, so that's what I do when I ask someone for evidence.- trickster, slicker, cheat

Con-, I've been doing work for a long time on finding out if a god exists….. Uh-huh, RIGHT! And if I had wheels, I’d be a wagon?

You’ve no experiences, I suppose you tried Muslim, cause you denied them too …. When did you ever go to their mosque and study? Have you even been in a church at all? Other than when you were a child? You’ve been lying this whole debate!

EVERYONE knows YOU HAVE to seek God for yourself, no one FINDS God for you or anyone else. Only a simpleton or a person who’s never looked for Him would NOT know this?

1.lack of empirical evidence FACT-atheist refuse to look FOR evidence themselves in all cases, demanding instead that it be done for them. However, once provided they reject outright, the evidence provided.

This I submit has been proven by your own actions and words! Denies given evidence AS evidence.

Con - There is no work involved. If you've already found evidence of a god, all you'd have to do is present it.

Con -No, I just ignored it

Con- I argue that there is nothing which cannot be falsified.

Con- Indeed, and I am one of them. I have yet to find any evidence of a god with my searching. People believing in something is not evidence it exists.

Con -That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.- Just a Deer in the headlights, aren't you?

Con- Either way, what you said is baseless, as you provided no evidence that atheists refuse to look for evidence – You don’t why would they?

Con- All of my experiences indicate that atheists have tried all of the same things theists have done in order to find evidence. Yeah …. Your experiences, uh-huh?

Note* Can't find God UNLESS YOU really LOOK! – YOU DID NOT LOOK! – Prevaricator

Con - There is no work involved. If you've already found evidence of a god, all you'd have to do is present it. Still wanting me to do the work for you huh? .... No I won't!

2. The problem of evil: FACT- atheist ARE the performers of Evil! Course once they’re in prison, they do get religious, quick, fast and in a hurry don’t they.

Con- Note how my opponent once again offers unsubstantiated claims. No evidence whatsoever of this and in my research, something he just complained about?

I forget, atheist HAVE no common sense. My mistake. it's like the definition of stupid which by all appearances Con doesn't know, unless dictionary open to the page, by someone else of course.

Over the past thirty years, the rise in violent crime parallels the rise in families abandoned by fathers.

High-crime neighborhoods are characterized by high concentrations of families abandoned by fathers.

The rate of violent teenage crime corresponds with the number of families abandoned by fathers.

The type of aggression and hostility demonstrated by a future criminal often is foreshadowed in unusual aggressiveness as early as age five or six.

The future criminal tends to be an individual rejected by other children as early as the first grade who goes on to form his own group of friends, often the future delinquent gang.

On the other hand:

Neighborhoods with a high degree of religious practice are not high-crime neighborhoods.

Even in high-crime inner-city neighborhoods, well over 90 percent of children from safe, stable homes do not become delinquents.

Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE), former chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee and a major sponsor of the recent crime bill, summed up the predominant view of crime prevention: Likewise, the Department of Justice's report, "Comprehensive Strategy for Serious, Violent and Chronic Juvenile Offenders," accurately diagnoses the roots of the problem (in terms of family, religion, and moral formation),

Amid the social collapse of so many urban neighborhoods, there are stunning examples of successful efforts to turn around the lives of young people previously immersed in crime. These efforts invariably possess two features. One is a strong system of rules within an organization characterized by the love and firm guidance seen in a supportive family. The other is a strong spiritual dimension, most commonly a profound religious commitment.

http://www.heritage.org...

I doubt he ever even looked in his alleged intense study, I found this in like 30 seconds. Obviously to labor intense for liar, liar pants on fire there.

Con - I've not found anything that confirms atheists convert once in prison. Just do a google search yourself, and you'll see there is nothing on the matter of people converting once in prison.

Again no common sense .... Sigh.

Never found cause never LOOKED, -trickster

Protestant: 50.6%, Catholic 14.5%, No religious preference: 10.6%, Muslim 9.4%, Unknown 5.0%, Native American 2.7%, Jewish 1.7%, Pagan earth based 1.7%, Other non-Christian 1.5%, Buddhist 0.9%, Mormon 0.8%, Orthodox Christian 0.4%, Hindu 0.2%= 84.4% Religious inmates. Non religious + unkown =15.6% inmate population

Yeah to me another two seconds to find this statistic. I’m beginning to think Con is on the isle of Patmos.

https://www.statista.com...

3. The rejections of concepts that cannot be falsified:

Con - There is no work involved. If you've already found evidence of a god, all you'd have to do is present it.

Con -I argue that there is nothing which cannot be falsified. – (Yeah there’s a shock, he might have had to LOOK huh?.)

I think the answer for this question is obvious - makes excuses to reject concepts!

Note* Direct evidence that Con and all other atheist, “NEVER BOTHERED TO LOOK” demanding empirical evidence, but refusing to acknowledge them even when they cannot BE DENIED!

Con -None of the quotes you offered from me is evidence that I never bothered to look. Again, baseless claims.

(as has been established and demonstrated Atheist DO NOT LOOK!)

Con -That hasn't been established actually. You offered no scientific study on whether atheists look for evidence, no examples, etc.

The man has excuses for everything, to give him a reason NOT to research.

YOU ARE my example pedophile supporter, child sex supporter…. Already on last rounding here, and you’ve provided nothing but your mouth! And of course some sicko ideas!

.Many atheist hold that atheism is a more parsimonious worldview than Theism: FACT- 6.67 Billion Theist is hemispheres away from 1.1 Billion atheist, clearly had one BOTHERED to live in the real world rather than the cage of their mind, thay would have easily known THE TRUTH. Nope not the atheist, their just on cruise control through life, until of course they crash and yes BURN! Snap out of it people, before it’s too late!

YOU ARE NOT THE WORLD VIEW ATHEIST. Theist IS the worldview, UNDENIABLE, in accordance with requirement for Burden of proof, it falls to YOU, to show “God doesn’t exist” and that atheism is the correct view, not our Burden, because we are the status quo, NOT YOU!

Con -I think you don't know what parsimonious means. What you said here makes no sense at all pertaining to what parsimonious means: It means, "Very unwilling to spend money or use resources"[4] What you said doesn't have anything to do with spending money or resources.

Again, my mistake, forgot I was talking to an atheist, with no common sense, should have known I’d HAVE to look for him! Duh!

LOOK HERE---------> Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae "law of parsimony")

https://en.wikipedia.org...

is a problem-solving principle attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar, scholastic philosopher and theologian. In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic or a scientific result;

Con - if I said a cheetah is orange, that is not defining the cheetah as orange, it's describing its attributes.

Uh- yeah, AND?

Uh …. Cheetah, large predator of the feline family, Orange a color, associated with pumpkins, oranges etc not difficult.

Stupid, one who is careless in reason, Unintelligent, in mannerisms of speech or thought. Unable to grasps ideas in context …… uh …… Con and other atheists!

See? not too hard for you to reasonably follow, was it? So “WHY” didn’t you?

Capitalistslave

Con

All of the pointing to my previous debates is completely irrelevant from proving that I have never been a theist. I recently joined this site only 2 months ago, and have been an implicit atheist/agnostic for 2 years. So, of course my debates on here will be against religion since I've been an atheist for longer than I have been on here. I'm currently 21, and up until I was about 19, I was a practicing Mormon, I even served a Mormon mission for a couple of months(they're usually 2 years long, but I had to go home early due to medical reasons). My real name is Daniel Kirkham. I will provide a screenshot of me logged into my LDS.org account(which only Mormons can have those accounts) in the comments, hopefully tomorrow when I get my computer back. I'm not doing it now, because I am using another computer that isn't mine, as mine is still getting fixed. So, I would ask voters not to vote until I can post that in the comments. I'm answering now so that I don't forfeit the debate.

Now, I suppose I'll address each of the attacks my opponent has made regardiny my debates:

2. You completely misread the debate, I took the con to the debate "Supporting Islam is terrorism". Actually, this itself, is a pro-religion debate since I was defending Islam here. Here is the link to the debate, to show that my opponent lied about it [2]

3. Again, this is all baseless, and clearly a strawman. I don't support child rapists(pedophiles are different from child rapists, as most pedophiles do not rape children, and some child rapists are not pedophiles), I support treating everyone as a human, even pedophiles. As a Christian, I thought you would believe in loving one another, no matter what, but apparently you don't.

4. See above

5. This is also a strawman, I didn't say I supported turning 5 year olds into sex objects. Being able to consent to sexual activity doesn't mean you're a sex object. So by your logic, everyone who can consent to sexual activity, is apparently a sex object, even you.

6. This is logical, innocent until proven guilty is a highly held belief in the court system.

7. Need I remind you that you believe in a book that had tons of incest in it? Also, try reading my debates for once. You'll see they are quite logical.

8. This one I didn't fully support, sometimes I do debates where I don't fully support the subject, such as when I argued against anthropogenic climate change. Sometimes I just debate for fun and to see responses from other people.

Re: the next set of quote from me

As for all the baseless insults that my opponent offers, I again, remind them of innocent until proven guilty. You have yet to prove that I am a fabricator, deceiver, that I bore false witness in these cases, etc.

"You’ve no experiences, I suppose you tried Muslim, cause you denied them too …. When did you ever go to their mosque and study? Have you even been in a church at all? Other than when you were a child? You’ve been lying this whole debate!"

You've not proven I've been lying, for one, and two, I am going to offer evidence that for majority of my life, I've been a Mormon just to prove to you that I wasn't lying when I claimed I was once a theist. It will be in the comments due to my circumstances, and I hope voters will understand why I'm not posting it here but in comments. I deny all religions which support a deity, as in my experience, I've not found a deity.

Con- Either way, what you said is baseless, as you provided no evidence that atheists refuse to look for evidence – You don’t why would they?

You've still not proven that I don't. You keep making these unsubstantiated claims about me, also it's illogical to conclude that an entire group acts the same way as one individual in that group. It's called a Hasty Generalization. [3]

Con - There is no work involved. If you've already found evidence of a god, all you'd have to do is present it. Still wanting me to do the work for you huh? .... No I won't!

I've done the work already, you've yet to prove I haven't.


Neighborhoods with a high degree of religious practice are not high-crime neighborhoods.


Even in high-crime inner-city neighborhoods, well over 90 percent of children from safe, stable homes do not become delinquents.


Making claims without true evidence again. Notice that they offered a link that didn't make that claim, and it isn't a reputable scientific study on this matter. Also, correlation doesn't mean causation. If neighborhoods with high degree of religious practice have a low crime rate, it could be because they are rural. Rural areas tend to be more religious, and the fact it is rural could be why there is not much crime. The demographics of the city in general could also influence this.


re: religious affiliation of prisoners


That doesn't even prove that people convert after they've been in prison. The article you linked to only provides the religious affiliation of prisoners, and it doesn't compare their religious affiliation from first entering prison, to many years later or when they are released from prison.



Now, since my opponent is claiming that Atheists are stupid, I would like to present a study done on intelligence and the religiousity of people. According to the findings, religiousity and intelligence are negatively correlated[4] in other words, as you look at people who are religious, the less intelligent you are. As you look at people who are less religious, the more intelligent the people are. My opponent did not offer any scientific evidence, or even evidence of any kind, that atheists are stupid except for ad hominem attacks for most of the debate.



To sum up why voters should vote for me: I offered scientific data on the intelligence of religious people versus non-religious people, and pointed out the many flaws in my opponent's "arguments". My opponent offered no evidence of their claims that atheists are stupid, except ad hominem attacks.



I would implore voters to at least vote for me for conduct, as I didn't resort to insulting my opponent whereas my opponent clearly insulted me during this debate and attacked me on a personal level. I would ask for them to also vote for me for sources, as I provided a scientific study, whereas my opponent did not, and relied on sources that didn't even prove their points, which I explained above how they didn't.



Sources:



Debate Round No. 3
50 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Romans 10 Tells you the requirement for salvation.
Read versus 9 and 10 see eternal Life is FREE, CAUSE Christ paid the debt for your sins past present and future Himself.

But follow after Him and rewards and a special inheritance can also be yours. Sup too you?
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Smorfy;
Not trying to scare you, what is, IS. Most of mankind doesn't get it, because their stuck in Mans knowledge, mans limitations. We,(believers) are not. God teaches us everyday. This is no Spirit, Ghost, or phantom I serve. God is as real as the computer your sitting in front of, He moves visibly in the world I live in everyday, I have the privilege if seeing God move, do, create and teach things, far beyond my abilities to understand.
I know what's coming as does every believer who walks with Him. Despite all you think, there IS coming a time where your RIGHT to chose will be taken away from you. Listen to TV, listen to those who are devout followers of God, they are all saying the same thing.
See that's how We know God is real. He told us everything that's going to happen thousands of years BEFORE it happened. We're right on Q. We're never surprised, cause God already told us, what's what And when. No worries. But the nonbelievers? Blindsided everyday, and one day, it will be their last surprise.
Don't be surprised by Hell, God says seek Him with sincere heart, and you WILL find Him, millions of us HAVE, so can you.
Stop listening to men, none of us can save you, only God can do that, and He will if you ask Him too.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Smorfy;
1.There are NO contradictions IN the Bible! Period end of discussion!
Matthew 13:14
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

This MEANS do not bother to UNDERSTAND the Bible. It was NOT written for those who are perishing.
Those who are perishing? Atheist, unbelievers, cults, Religious people, who God does NOT KNOW.

You see God is the creator of all things, that means He KNOWS all things, and that also means it is He who shows US the answers to those contradictions your talking about, so that they no longer ARE contradictions. You see Smorfy, God doesn't bow to Man. Man was created FOR God, NOT the other way around. This is why man has such a hard time coming to grips with God. Man thinks very highly of himself.

Course that isn't going to be of any use, when man finds himself IN Hell, with no way out, because the way out WAS by permission of God, a being he CHOSE NOT to know.

Let me put this into the RIGHT perspective for you. Let me SHOW you what God thinks about Mans pride straight from God.

Matthew 7:6
"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

Those dogs, and pigs? Yeah, that's YOU, and all the people YOUR listening too.
See, God don't grovel for the Privilege to SAVE your skin. Yes He loves you, yes, He wants too save you and the others too! BUT, He don't, won't, and will NEVER compromise His Holiness, Justice nor Righteousness for ANY man, woman or child .... just isn't IN His ability. Can you understand this.

God IS NOT something you TRY ON to see if He fits. You chose Him or you don't, IF you don't, you pay the Sin debt you owe too Him yourself, it cost you an eternity of separation from God and all that He represents. Leaving you with eternal torment and suffering.
Posted by Smorfy 1 year ago
Smorfy
Also, you said that the Bible is God's word, and the prophets did not change it. Since there are so many contradictions in the Bible, God has to be imperfect.
Posted by Smorfy 1 year ago
Smorfy
FollowerofChrist1955, first, you said "Man is fallible, God is not." If this is true, why are there so many contradictions in the Bible [1]? Next, you say "John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." If God loves the world, why would (S)He send so much of the world to Hell? Also, you say "God knows the beginning from the end, he knows the choice your going to make and guides your life each day, till the day you die, either receiving salvation before your death, or being consigned to Hell, awaiting judgement and casting into The Lake of Fire, which IS the second Death." According to you, God knows all these things. Also according to you, "Gods presence in you changes you from the inside out. God does that not you. We cannot change ourselves, But God certainly can, and DOES." So, if I cannot change myself, but God can, that makes sending me to Hell unfair, and also makes it God's fault. God chose not to change me, when (S)He knows I (apparently) cannot change myself, then sends me to Hell*! That is a very unjust God, if you ask anyone affected by that! You also say "SEE God already KNEW we would do it? There ARE NO SURPRISES with God. he knows you." This means God knows what will happen to me and does nothing to prevent it! Thanks, this debate has been good.
1. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
*. Could you please explain your belief of Hell to me? As you said, there are 33,820 Christian offshoots. This means there are many different "theories" of what Hell is, and what happens there.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Smorfy;
Quick history lesson; there are 33,820 Christian offshoots, know "Why". Cause we don't LISTEN!
But I'll show you what it means and how fast you can learn WHEN you let God teach you instead of Man.

Okay, God says outright and at the beginning, that YOU ARE NOT TO INTERPRET THE WORD OF GOD!
It says so here:
2 Peter 1
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet"s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

see the ABOVE ALL? It means ABOVE ALL! Yet 33,819 offshoots of Christianity DID NOT READ THIS!
SEE your not even a Christian but you NOW understand the WHY there are soooo many belief systems out there. And you now know that only 1 of them IS correct. But which One?

Again .... simple, IF you allow God to teach you and not Man. Look in the Bible itself. Whatever DENOMINATION is stated there is the correct one. Hint: THERE ARE NONE!

All the Apostles, and Christ were in unison, they believed the SAME THING, not many differing things, you see?

This naturally begs the question so are they all going to Hell? NO! "Why?" Because Salvation is FREE remember! It's a GIFT. So you see all of the 33,820 offshoots are saved by Christ sacrifice, even though they have done that which God did not desire, they;

Isaiah 53:6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

SEE God already KNEW we would do it? There ARE NO SURPRISES with God. he knows you.

Imagine having to save a people so self absorbed that they can get sooo busy in the business of the King, that they COMPLETELY forget THE KING!
Yep that's us, not faultless, just Saved! You could be too.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Smorfy;
So you see? Despite my being saved and in no danger of Hell, and the second death, God STILL holds me responsible for YOUR young soul? In Ezekiel He tells me plainly that all men MUST be warned. Your blood could well be accounted to Me by the simple failure on MY part, to CARE enough for your soul. God says WE are toLove others as we love ourselves, and I don't know a single person who WANTS to go to Hell. So I shouldn't want anyone else to either .... pretty simple right?

So God seals your soul for heaven, by the indwelling Holy Spirit once a person accepts Gods Gift of eternal life. Because Christ paid the price IN FULL, it is yours and guarantees you of no separation from God. BUT it also opens the door for rewards and INHERITANCE should you walk in obedience while in this life.
Gods presence in you changes you from the inside out. God does that not you. We cannot change ourselves, But God certainly can, and DOES. God already KNOWS we can't do it, so He doesn't make us do it He does it, by situations,circumstances of daily Living. We go through many things BUT if we are wise (meaning we study Gods word) We understand that there are lessons in everything that happens too us.

The faster and more pliable we are to His leading the quicker we learn and the more we fight the more we go through to learn the lesson. But once lessons are learned, you never seem to go through them anymore. That doesn't mean you never see them again, just not IN your life, but you might see them in another's life .... almost always that means YOU ARE to help them through the hard time, not sit back and watch.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 10
9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Romans 1
God"s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God"s invisible qualities"his eternal power and divine nature"have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

Ezekiel 3
18 When I say to a wicked person, "You will surely die," and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for[b] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 year ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Smorfy;
Sadly, it is YOU who are mistaken. You see, you are capable on a daily basis of error, God is not. You, will continue to make foolish and ill advised decisions for the remainder of your Life here as God never has nor ever will.
Forgive me, but it IS Gods way of thinking we shall use, NOT mans. Man is fallible, God is not. God readily States that:
Isaiah 55:8
"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.9"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts."

You see, you base all things on what you see, feel, know. God knows the beginning from the end, he knows the choice your going to make and guides your life each day, till the day you die, either receiving salvation before your death, or being consigned to Hell, awaiting judgement and casting into The Lake of Fire, which IS the second Death.

Consider, is it God, who is wrong when MAN, by his own evil thoughts desires and lifestyle choose to do evil? No of course not. Despite the excuses that Man is capable of coming up WITH it IS Man or in this case it IS YOU, who CHOOSES to do whatever YOU decide. And it is YOU who bears the full consequences of YOUR CHOICE. Do not even TRY to blame God for YOUR mistakes.

You cannot blame God for holding YOU responsible, just because you live in a world where society does not! No my young friend. It is YOU who are unjust, not God. You by way of your sin nature, may not be able to prevent yourself from doing evil ...BUT God, has MADE A WAY, of escape for Man, in the form of a blood sacrifice. He paid the price you cannot pay, to make it possible for YOU to "be forgiven"

That YOU REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT SACRIFICE, isn't Gods injustice, it's your folly, and the folly of ALL MEN.
Think about it?
Posted by Smorfy 1 year ago
Smorfy
I am sorry, it seems I have reposted the same basic comment I did earlier. When I went back on this page the first time, it did not show my previously posted comment so I posted another one. I am sorry for posting twice, I honestly did not mean to post two comments.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Mharman 1 year ago
Mharman
FollowerofChrist1955CapitalistslaveTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I will have to agree with the vote below me on this one.
Vote Placed by jo154676 1 year ago
jo154676
FollowerofChrist1955CapitalistslaveTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro was very insulting to con and he handled it well