The Instigator
chipmonk
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
pred
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Atheism is a lie

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Post Voting Period
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after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 942 times Debate No: 88521
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (64)
Votes (0)

 

chipmonk

Pro

chipmonk
Pro
I have yet to recieve a satisfactory rebuttle to this argument. Hopefully, this time around , my opponent will not use critical fallacies one after another in place of his argument. If you do not know what a "fallacy" is, please do not accept this debate.

There are no rules in logical debates. The only rule is that you be logical. If you are illogical , or only want to discuss things based on a matter of your own opinion, please do not accept this debate.

I present 3 constructs, in which i argue each is a logical truth on its own.. As well as my final conclusion being deduced from the combination of all three constructs. You can attempt to refute any part of my construct, definitions or logic. Just please do so logically.

My resolution is "Atheism is a lie."

Below is my logical argument supporting my resolution.

Belief...assumption of truth with or without evidence
Disbelief assumption of falsehood due to a lack or contradictory evidence.

Faith. An assertive Belief without valid evidence.
Knowing. An assertive belief with valid evidence.

Construct 1
Premise1 : no one can know if God exists of not.
Premise2: to claim to know is to have valid evidence
Conclusion: whoever claims to know if God exists or not, is a liar.

Construct 2
Premise 1: Believers claim they have faith God exists.
Premise 2: to have faith is a belief without valid evidence (see defintions)
Conclusion: Believers do not claim to "know" if God exists.

Construct 3
Premise 1: Atheists claim they disbelieve God exists.
Premise 2: disbelief or rejection of a claim is based on a lack of valid evidence and an abundance of contradictory evidence. (See definitions)
Conclusion: Atheists claim to "know" if God exists.

Final Conclusion.: Atheism is a lie by definition and logic.
Report this Argument
pred

Con

Sup fam.
In your argument you state that "believers claim to "know" if God exists" which just isn't true. Athiests can disbelief in God or have a lack of belief in God (by definition) so if your conclusion is that "Atheism is a lie by definition and logic" You are wrong.
Debate Round No. 1
chipmonk

Pro

Sup bro,

A lack of beilief is not the same as disbelief. Game over.
pred

Con

Jfc.
You said: "Atheism is a lie by definition and logic."

The definition of Atheism is: "disbelief or LACK OF BELIEF in the existence of God or gods."-g
Your conclusion of Construct three states: Atheists claim to "know" if God exists.
Atheism is not "belief there is no God" but merely "no belief in a God." Atheism is defined in this context as a "lack of belief" in God.

Belief definition: an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof

You stated that Atheists claim to "know" if god exists, which isn't true. We instead have a lack of acceptance that 'God' exists.

I have no idea where you got the idea that Atheists claim to know if "God" exists or not.

Which means all of your constructs are flawed but your first one lmao.
Debate Round No. 2
chipmonk

Pro

Interesting. Of all the ridiculous rebuttals i've seen from contrived of meaningless words that drew some distorted abstraction of reality , some how your crude response made alot more sense.

No belief in God (lack of belief) vs. a belief in no God (a disbelief).

Superficially, and sometimes , this distinction is necessary. Because there exists people who truly do lack a belief, but do not necessarily reject all god claims. This person, in popular terms, is often referred to as an agnostic. Someone who is uncertain, yet does believe in SOME sort of higher power.

Perhaps Con wishes to calm himself agnostic. Alas, an atheist believes in NO higher power. Zero. An atheist rejects any supernatural assumption or belief. It is the belief in no God.

If there is a single atheist who truly accepts the possibility of God, then atheism would not exist. It would be a futile state of mind because no single atheist can honestly say that they reviewed all god claims past and present, without missing a single one. Even if the atheist were to reject all possible god claims of past and present, as all he does is study religion 24/7/365...he still would need to continuously believe in the possibility of a higher power existing in the past and present, for which he has not reviewed. He would be like an agnostic. Still searching for the "answer".

But atheism, as we all know is not a state of mind that allows for "searchng for God." Its actually a state of mind that rejects and refuses any notion with the remote possibility of a god or God. Atheism doesnt reject fantasy for some odd reason, but it does reject anything pertaining to God. Many atheists believe in aliens, but not God.

Further. Atheism by definition a belief ABOUT GoD. It can not be a lack of belief about God while also being a term that defines WHAT ppl think about God. If anything, atheism defines ppl who simply do not think about God, despite God being defined as the undefined creator of all things. The atheist does not care. And because he has rejected the notion already.

Thus atheism is only a lack of belief in God BECAUSE it has already rejected the notion.

Agnosticism is a lack of belief in God, because it has not yet seen convincing enough evidence to be CERTAIN. An agnostic already accepts the possibility of God, and therefore believes God exists in some unifentified form. The atheist denies any possibility, including the denial of any kind of God of any possible form. If one does not do so..he is no longer an atheist, because he has accepted a form of God Can and does exist, only he has not yet discovered it. And the atheist becomes agnostic, as he continues to validate each god claim.

However. New atheism takes on the coat of agnosticism while adamantly preaching their rejection of God on public forums. In place of God, ALL atheists set forth science to explain their existence.

Alas science has not yet discovered God and cannot be an alternative to the God hypothesis. So the atheist is still left with the possibility of God, yet will not accept it as true in any way or form.

The reason for this , i do not assume to know. However , logic dictates, that until we discover the beginning or time and matter, one is unable to reject God claims. And the only logical option is agnosticism or religion.
pred

Con

Just because you throw a bunch of words together it doesn't mean you right or anything of the sort. You literally said nothing meaningfull in that whole argument. You're speaking all opnion now.

An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine.

That is completely different to anything we're talking about. I literally have no idea why you bought that up lmao

Using your logic, theism is a lie. You're simply wrong. You made one point which was false in round three.
Debate Round No. 3
64 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by chipmonk 8 months ago
chipmonk
@whiteflame, much obliged. Thank you.
Posted by whiteflame 8 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: Everything// Mod action: Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: con won

[*Reason for removal*] Not an RFD, just a restatement of the decision.
************************************************************************
Posted by chipmonk 8 months ago
chipmonk
Answer the last question in my previous post. finding a logical answer to that question, is the first step out of atheist delusion.

And I am pretty certain you have not even entertained this question at all. U probably threw a hissy fit before you could come to logical, reasonable answer. U would say something like "how should i know? He doesnt exist!" Ah...you make a claim about an unknown. Have not given the claim adequate reasoning (of your own) to make any definitive conclusion of knowledge , ie. No evidence. Yet...you concluded that there is no reason to believe without evidence, and without even thinking about it. How do you know there is no reason to believe? Without even THINKING about it? Without even TRYING to find a reason that God would demand that you believe without evidence? To come up with some possible scenarios why its God wants ppl to believe in him. When thats exactly what God himself (allegedly, Jesus) told you you must do.

Basically....its undeniable. Atheism is simple denial. Ignorance. Hypocritical. And the antithesis of truth.

If u really got an IQ of 143. Id expect you to discover the answer to this simple question. I would not expect you to respond. I would expect you to awaken. And leave this debate, with doubts about your own position. Remember that you also said, you were willing to convert.
Posted by chipmonk 8 months ago
chipmonk
Answer the last question in my previous post. finding a logical answer to that question, is the first step out of atheist delusion.

And I am pretty certain you have not even entertained this question at all. U probably threw a hissy fit before you could come to logical, reasonable answer. U would say something like "how should i know? He doesnt exist!" Ah...you make a claim about an unknown. Have not given the claim adequate reasoning (of your own) to make any definitive conclusion of knowledge , ie. No evidence. Yet...you concluded that there is no reason to believe without evidence, and without even thinking about it. How do you know there is no reason to believe? Without even THINKING about it? Without even TRYING to find a reason that God would demand that you believe without evidence? To come up with some possible scenarios why its God wants ppl to believe in him. When thats exactly what God himself (allegedly, Jesus) told you you must do.

Basically....its undeniable. Atheism is simple denial. Ignorance. Hypocritical. And the antithesis of truth.

If u really got an IQ of 143. Id expect you to discover the answer to this simple question. I would not expect you to respond. I would expect you to awaken. And leave this debate, with doubts about your own position. Remember that you also said, you were willing to convert.
Posted by chipmonk 8 months ago
chipmonk
To admit you are wrong, is to admit your beliefs and knowledge is fallible. Its to acknowledge that you are imperfect. To say that you are imperfect is also to acknowledge that there is some standard of perfection, however abstract and hard to define, that one can grapple on to. The interesting tidbit is that we all share a common perception of that which we call perfection, holy, good, etc.

To admit you are flawed, also you acknowledge that you are not always right aboutnyour ideas, thoughts, beliefs. You admit is a good thing. This is what it is to be humble and modest.

Yet you turn around and demand evidence? Why? So that your belief is certain. So that you will KNOW, and you will not need to believe. So that you can avoid being WRONG. See? How your ideology of evidence based beliefs is actually a lie that goes against your OWN moral CODE, making you a Hypocrite?

Get it?

I dont assume to know exactly who or what God is or what form he exists in...but i think if He did exist...he can certainly outsmart an iq of 143 by making the entire bible true and making you look stupid. Couldn't he?

If God exists, u think u are gunna outsmart him by demanding evidence to believe??? When he demanded that you believe first????

Instead of being so arrogant, ignorant to continue to demand evidence from God...(though u might bot even comprehend what is arrogant about it.)....

First ask your little self this really simple question. U still have not found a logical answer to. this..."why does God want me to believe in Him?"

Your answer doesnt have to be correct or verifiable. If it makes logical sense (ie. No contradictions), then you can at least acknowledge it is possible God exists. Like if i say he wants ppl to believe bc it makes him feel powerful, thats illogical. What would be the logical /moral / perfect reason for God wanting ppl to BELIEVE? Why doesnt he just let everyone have valid evidence like showing up every sunday in "person"?
Posted by chipmonk 8 months ago
chipmonk
Well, if I was a bigot, and u called me a bigot , no. That would be an accurate description of what I am.

But I am not the one here hating on a group of ppl. Am I? Thats you and your trolling buddies, remember that atheism isnt a group of ppl. Its just an ideology. correct me if im wong, thats what you atheists claim.

You hav a high IQ, but then you must still be young. And your IQ is only one pt. higher than mine was, when I was 20. When a young person, talks about old ppl stuff(things requiring wisdom of experience and age), they can look like a moron, even if they have high IQs. Look at babies. Nuff said. Thats what you look like talking about God. Goo goo ga ga. Its all atheists though. Almost all. Like 99.99 %of you.

Yes. Me answering "yes" is not only a good thing, its honest, and its true. Opposite of being DELUSIONAL. Do you know why you even see that as a good thing?? Just because its not "stubborn"? Well why do u believe it is good for me to change my views????

Do you even KNOW WHY YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE?

Because changing my mind...means ? I know how to admit I am WRONG.

Do you know what that means?????? To admit you are wrong??
Do you know how to admit you are wrong???!!

Have you ever truly in ur heart admitted that you were wrong? A sinner?

Doubt it.

If you did. U wouldn't be atheist. (This is not an insult.)
Posted by WhineyMagiciann5 8 months ago
WhineyMagiciann5
So then it is not an insult if i call you a bigot? Ir what abotu fanatic? As you fit the deffinition

Also in case you didn't know, a moron is somone with an IQ within the range of 50-69. I have an IQ of 143

On you adressing the question, it wasn't meant to be satire and it wasn't a rhetorical question. Your answer is somthing very important in this. I wasn't assuming anything when i asked it, i just wanted and answer. You said yes. Now let me continue.

You answerig yes is a good thing! It wasn't bait or anything like that for a trap, let me explain. In all groups there are people that will never change what they think. Even when proven otherwise. If you look at the bill nye and ken ham debate on evolution, when asked this question, bill yes and ken said never.
Then look at the debate. When ken presented his arguments, you could see bill listen closely and say if ken had a good point before he went to work against it.
When you pay attention to ken, he wasn't paying attention anywhere near as much when bill was talking and called some of his arguments outright stupid without explaining why.

You answer that you would be willing and that is a good thing. Your not the stubborn people who will not tolerate anything else.

I'm not telling you to stop worshipping god. just remember that you yourself said you could possibly convert, just don't forget what you said.
Posted by chipmonk 8 months ago
chipmonk
As far as your question, I'm glad to give you an answer as long as you can see that your question is not satirical or rhetorical. Rhetorical in the sense that, you were not interested in my answer, you were only interested in proving a point.

Sure there is something that would make me convert. If we discovered that Jesus never existed, that might make me change. If we discover that all near death experience is actually hallucinations, that might make me a convert also.

But the question itself is fallacious.
You are assuming , And making the same mistake again , that one needs evidence to believe and uncertainty. It's pretty much the most logical thing someone can assume Yet u do it every day. If something is unknown and it cannot be known I cannot be proved or disapproved because the claim itself is on falsifiable and untestable , then all it really takes to convert .... Is your willingness to do so. Blam.
Posted by chipmonk 8 months ago
chipmonk
@whiney. You know, profanity is not the same thing as an insult. If you actually are by definition a moron, and someone calls you a moron, it is possible that they are not insulting, but rather providing a description of your behavior. Just because he used profanity to describe your behavior, it doesn't make it an insult, given that the description is more or less accurate.

Conversely, one does not need to use profanity to insult the other person. An insult is any statement that is made in a rather derogatory or belittling way, while also miss representing The persons qualities. So an insult is only an insult if it is insulting. And quite honestly, atheism is an insult to all of theists. Basically, if you don't know, then remain silent because you don't know. Or ask questions so that you can know
Posted by WhineyMagiciann5 8 months ago
WhineyMagiciann5
I said i wouldn't respond, yet this is just disgusting.

The whole time i have been explainign all the outrages calims you make.
Valid evidence
Converting
What you think atheism "really" is
ECT...

You never explained how any of my claims are lies, you jsit disagree with me and then pass them off.

You ask me to bring evidence of me converting, then say i never would. YOU DON'T ENEN KNOW MY GENDER YET YOU SEEM TO ACT LIKE YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT ME THAN MYSELF!!!
You call me moronic and a liar, have i sinsulted dure this entire thing? I don't see any of my insults in here. I just see you calling people morons, ignorant, among other thing in your activities.

And onto the theist becoming atheist. I TOTALY didn't see the no true scotsmans fallacy coming, you know what it is right??? As this fallacy has no place in a proper argument.

Honestly, your one of the least respectful people i have met, just disgusting. I'm irritated here since i stated several times that i don't care about what others think/believe. Yet you go around and insult me and other. This is just sad

You still didn't andwer the question.
Would there be any scenario where you would convert?
I expect an answer.
No votes have been placed for this debate.