The Instigator
Gao
Pro (for)
Losing
49 Points
The Contender
Kleptin
Con (against)
Winning
52 Points

Atheism is not and cannot be a religon!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/8/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,808 times Debate No: 2484
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (26)

 

Gao

Pro

Atheism is not and cannot be a religon, why all religon is based on faith. Atheist have no faith they have no beliefs other than not to believe! I'm not tring to offend nor say that they are wrong. but they cannot be conciderd a religon.
Kleptin

Con

Atheists still base their opinion on faith. Atheists proclaim that God does not exist, and this is not much different from Theists saying that God DOES exist. They are both claims that have to be validated.

The only neutral and unbiased claim would be the following:

"There is no evidence for the existence of God"

In this case, it would not be based on faith.
Debate Round No. 1
Gao

Pro

Faith: belief that is not based on proof. key word Belief, atheist do not believe in any thing, and thus have no faith. also to believe not to believe is an oxymoron that is an IDEA not a BELIEF. religion is based upon A belief system more so than an idea. example Christianity belief in Christ, Jesus as the chosen son of God. Pagan belief that spirits are among us. Atheist Idea that we spawned from ooze.
Kleptin

Con

"Faith: belief that is not based on proof."

I request the source of this definition. If you cannot provide a reasonable source, your argument is void. It seems as if though you are only using this definition because it matches yours. The definition I provided was the entry in Merriam-Webster.

"key word Belief, atheist do not believe in any thing, and thus have no faith."

No, Atheists believe that deities do not exist. A belief is the stance you take in accordance with an event or thing.

"Anna slept with her husband's best friend, can you believe that?"

If you say yes, your stance is that it is true. If you say no, your stance is that it is false. Taking a stance means you have a belief. Theism is a belief because the stance on God is "true". Atheism is a belief because the stance on God is "false".

I think you are confusing Atheism with Agnosticism. Agnostics do not have beliefs because they don't take a stance. They stand outside the God debate.

*************

Let me explain to you why there is such confusion. I used to be an atheist myself and debated a lot with theists. I know all about the burden of proof, but DO NOT confuse it with other things.

I know exactly what you mean when you say it is an oxymoron, but that's not the right way to look at it.

The burden of proof falls on the theists. The theists are the ones that must PROVE that God exists. Atheists don't need to PROVE that God does NOT exist. It's irrational and impossible.

HOWEVER

This does not mean that Atheists can sit back and say "Until you can prove God exists, God doesn't exist". That's logically incorrect.

That's like saying "Jack, until you find your homework, your homework doesn't exist". If Jack finds his homework under his bed three hours later, does it mean that it only came into existence then? Of course not. It was always there.

People have free range to say "Since you cannot prove God, WE DON'T HAVE TO BELIEVE YOU"

They do not have the logical right to say "Since you cannot prove God, GOD DOES NOT EXIST".

Thus, an atheist that declares that god does not exist is not backed by logic. He is making an assertion of belief.

Thus, Atheism is religious in nature.
Debate Round No. 2
Gao

Pro

I follow your reasoning and thought. and I recieved my def. from dictionary.com
accatually I lied, sorry I miss the point: 'Atheists don't need to PROVE that God does NOT exist. It's irrational and impossible.'
what? for anything to be there must be a creator, every religion believes that in some point, that is the general FAITH of all religions.
you claim that only theists need prove that a God or Gods exist that atheist are some how void of responsablity in feeble atempts of jusifing their 'Ideas'.
I have also been an Atheist and only when I looked at what I thought was my Faith I relized, to belive in nothing is the same as being alredy dead.
many claim that they shall be reborn as trees, impossibul, if there is no God then all refrences toward a God are false thus, humans have no souls, and then cannot come back nor reencarnate as dust, let-a-lone a tree. others believe in a mockry of foolish and empty ideals of death. I also cannot fathom how we beings came forth without a God. and don't try the BIG BANG or EVOLUTIONARY theories, they cannot be proven.

I conclude: Atheist must prove there is no God, witch you say they don't.
Athesim is built on Ideals not Faith, like all other religons.
Atheism is not a Religon, but a group of those who cannot fathom a God thus choose to look away from Him/Her/It
Kleptin

Con

"'Atheists don't need to PROVE that God does NOT exist. It's irrational and impossible.'
what? for anything to be there must be a creator, every religion believes that in some point, that is the general FAITH of all religions."

That's not true. Christians don't believe that God has a creator, God just always was. By your logic, that would mean Christianity isn't a religion. Your point is invalid.

"you claim that only theists need prove that a God or Gods exist that atheist are some how void of responsablity in feeble atempts of jusifing their 'Ideas'."

It's called "The burden of proof". If I were to say a pink, intangible, invisible dragon lives in my den, it would be up to ME to prove it exists, not YOU to prove it does not exist.

However, many people get confused by this. They think that they can say "Oh, you can't prove it? Then it doesn't exist". The proper logical conclusion is "You cannot say it exists because there is not enough evidence"

"I have also been an Atheist and only when I looked at what I thought was my Faith I relized, to belive in nothing is the same as being alredy dead.
many claim that they shall be reborn as trees, impossibul, if there is no God then all refrences toward a God are false thus, humans have no souls, and then cannot come back nor reencarnate as dust, let-a-lone a tree. others believe in a mockry of foolish and empty ideals of death. I also cannot fathom how we beings came forth without a God. and don't try the BIG BANG or EVOLUTIONARY theories, they cannot be proven."

I think you're confused. This is a debate, which is a discussion on a particular topic between two people of opposing viewpoints. If you're going to bash atheism, please log on to some creationist site and bash away, but do not waste my time my typing irrelevant garbage that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

However, I will treat your rant like an argument for this debate. You claim that atheists claim they shall be reborn as trees. You claim that atheists believe they believe in a mockery of foolish and empty ideals of death. You claim that atheists believe in big bang and evolution and that these things cannot be proven.

Since you claim they believe in all these things that aren't based on objective fact, it must be faith, and Atheism must be a religion. You've just conceded this debate. Thank you.

"I conclude: Atheist must prove there is no God, witch you say they don't."

You very well may conclude that, but the conclusion would be invalid. Why do I say so? There is an invisible, intangible pink dragon in my room that is always right. According to you, you would have to prove this dragon does not exist. Otherwise, you have lost this point.

"Athesim is built on Ideals not Faith, like all other religons."

I have no idea what this means and you offer no explanation for it. However, religion delas with many ideals. The concept of perfection, virginity, life after death, being all-knowing, all-powerful, unconditional love.

"Atheism is not a Religon, but a group of those who cannot fathom a God thus choose to look away from Him/Her/It"

If atheism is a set of beliefs that a person, as you said, CHOOSES to take, then it must be based on faith. Hence, Atheism is a religion.

Thank you for the debate.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Deku90 9 years ago
Deku90
ya know kelptin did a better job arguing. Gao just happened to be on the popular side.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
That's true. Given more time I could have probably strung that further and linked beliefs to religion. Oh well, live and learn.
Posted by ComradeJon1 9 years ago
ComradeJon1
I conquer with respect to the fact that he didnt bring it up as a point, but the theory of your case is that atheism = faith of the fact that god doesnt exist, but thats not a faith, its a statement of belief. Wheather your opponent brought it up or not, calling that statement a faith is logically invalid. Good debate though. Personally, im negative and would have argued that "jesus is the son of god" is just as much of a belief as "god doesnt exist" so if we call christianity a "religion", atheism has to be as well.
Posted by Kleptin 9 years ago
Kleptin
True, but my opponent didn't catch that.

Whatever points I lose for not stringing the argument fully, he loses for not noticing.

So no, I can still win this debate because his argument is much more disjointed than mine.
Posted by ComradeJon1 9 years ago
ComradeJon1
Atheism is a statement of belief (that being that god doesnt exist). Unless you can justify that all beliefs (i.e. dogs are lame, sex is fun, carlos mencia is a terrible comedian (more fact than belief)) are actually religions, which you didnt adequetly do, you lose.
Posted by Mr.ROdr1duez 9 years ago
Mr.ROdr1duez
ATHEISM IS NO FAITH...its people who dont want 2 belive in hell...or ppl who r lazy and dont want 2 praise GOD...or sientist who go aginst the Bible
Posted by Logos 9 years ago
Logos
Atheism is based on logic and reason, not empty faith. A religion is a set of doctrines and beliefs, which atheism is not.
26 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 6 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro could have easily refuted Con's argument but meandered into an attack on atheism.
Vote Placed by brokenboy 6 years ago
brokenboy
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Vote Placed by kevsext 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Kleptin 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Robert_Santurri 8 years ago
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