The Instigator
Cornelius
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
bigtown
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Atheism is not credible.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Cornelius
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/22/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 918 times Debate No: 59398
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)

 

Cornelius

Con

I will argue against the thought that atheism is not credible, and defend the disbelief in God.

Definition of atheism: A lack of belief in a deity or deities. (Ex. Yahweh, Allah, Zeus, etc.)
bigtown

Pro

Hey Cornelius, good to meet you. Hope we can have a good debate on this topic. I see your definition of atheism and hope to get you to see that, atheism is not just about your ideas of gods etc. Those are the ones typical of religious gods, so you must have some sort of belief system in your mind that you follow.

You can be your own personal god of course which is in essence the default position, not a good option really, or you can follow another or specific group where you get your ideas etc. So do not think that because you specifically opt out of believing in a deity, you don't follow another belief system, that is your religion of which you or somebody else is the deity. This is not to mean you aren't or can't be a good person, which I'm sure you are, or that you cannot be happy, but your life in return won't have a solid basis for absolute happiness, and you will be easily deceived. When you don't stand on something strong, you can fall down quite easily.

I'm sure you've pondered on life's big questions. Who made the world? Why are we here? Who made us? Does life have a purpose? What is that purpose? etc and probably slowly just stopped thinking about it in your mind. Life goes on the same, you're content etc, you don't seem to have to worry about anything. God's not bothering me, I don't need to care, I'm having a good time etc. You're a good person you think. That's ok, but in essence for your life to have meaning you need to ponder on these questions a little more. Not everyday, just when you feel happy to do so. When you take a firm position like you have, you forget to even ask yourself. You are the only one that can answer them, yet you do not face up to them properly. Any day in your life it could be gone, it just may be too late. I certainly hope not, but it can happen.

I like this argument, it helps me too get it straight in my mind:

There are 3 types of position you can take

Atheists - you've conceived of an entity in your mind, why else would you decide to deny it. What is it?
Agnostic - you've conceived of an entity in your mind, but you're not sure whether to go one way or another, this religion that religion etc, and have taken a middle position. A lot of people there. What is it?
Theist - you've conceived of it and you accept it into your life. Lots of different deities, which religion is right? What is it?

So you have everybody everywhere conceiving of an entity or entities in their minds, ARE we all delusional people?
So, an entity that all people can conceive of in some way, must necessarily exist. Again are we all MAD?

An atheist will decide to ignore it, they don't see anything they like to choose, life's good so why should I bother with such nonsense. They walk around thinking believers are deluded, but they let on to believers, that they've already had a conception of that entity. Believers aren't deluded, atheists are deluding themselves, in essence. Hide it away quickly and forget about it. So, in my mind atheism is actually self-deluding. This is not about how moral or good people are, it's about belief in something. In your mind in effect you have taken the most philosophical questions that you could ask yourself and decided, right no more of that, let's move on.

In leaving those questions unanswered, you therefore think your life has no real purpose, amusements and fun and money etc take over your life. You will not find happiness in those things. They're fun and lovely of course but you just keep on wanting more and more of the same. There possibly will come a time when you think what was that all about and the kicks you get seem harder to get. You wander from one thing to the next looking for it in material things. You possibly won't find happiness there. So it's just a stroll through this life and then you're done. Goodbye, I had a good time. But won't you be thinking, mmm I wonder if I could have a little more time and is there something else after.....if only I.....?
You see there may be something else after, can't be sure, but wouldn't it be great if you chose the right way in this life to get so much more in another.

I believe in God. There is only one, there can be only one essentially, but we have different religions and all those wierd ones etc You unfortunately have to make your own efforts to find Him. If you don't ask questions of yourself or ask if He will come into your life, then He won't. He doesn't want to bother you, He wants you search and find Him. He's let you know already He's there and I would say the evidence is overwhelming, but you've either walked away from Him or you've stopped searching.

You say what evidence? Well the very mind He has given you, the tools that may help you search and find Him and the supreme creation that you are experiencing right now. It's real and its His. It doesn't belong to scientists, they haven't even got any idea of the pure magnificence of life and the universe what ever they may say. Don't look for physical evidence as he is an immaterial entity.

When you are an athiest, you stop looking, become reliant on others to tell you what and how and you can become deceived. Your life does not have a purpose as such. It's lonely in the wilderness, and you will always have doubt about it and you cannot become a really whole person. You end up making your own rules, but they clash with others so you don't live without stress and confusion. God is the source of all order in the universe, reject Him and you will be disordered. Although you may not even realise it.

Sorry not much debate style there. Main argument, though still stands, atheism leads to self-delusion, so not credible.

good luck
Debate Round No. 1
Cornelius

Con

Cornelius forfeited this round.
bigtown

Pro

Hi Cornelius, I will just extend my argument for this round. I was going to present another argument here, but I'll leave it to next round.
Debate Round No. 2
Cornelius

Con

Pro:
" Hey Cornelius, good to meet you. Hope we can have a good debate on this topic. I see your definition of atheism and hope to get you to see that, atheism is not just about your ideas of gods etc. Those are the ones typical of religious gods, so you must have some sort of belief system in your mind that you follow."

Nice to meet you, 'buddy'. Every dictionary out there states that atheism is a disbelief of a god or gods. Especially by the Oxford dictionary. Atheism isn't any idea about Gods, it's just a disbelief in them. Plain and simple. I might have a belief system that I follow but, what does believing in a belief system have to do anything with atheism? Since atheism is just about disbelieving in a god or gods. Not all belief systems require you to believe in Gods or may have a god that you must follow. What does a belief system have to do anything with religion? A belief system can be faith based on a series of beliefs but not formalized into a religion. Also, it is a fixed coherent set of beliefs present in a community or a society. You can be an atheist and follow a religion and their traditions, but not a believer in some things. Well all in honesty, you claim to be a gnostic theist as I've researched of you; only in the Christian religion. You are mostly atheist too, because judging from your strict belief in the Abrahamic Christian god, Yahweh, I can assume you do not believe in the other hundreds of Gods. You are 99% atheist.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

"You can be your own personal god of course which is in essence the default position, not a good option really, or you can follow another or specific group where you get your ideas etc. So do not think that because you specifically opt out of believing in a deity, you don't follow another belief system, that is your religion of which you or somebody else is the deity. This is not to mean you aren't or can't be a good person, which I'm sure you are, or that you cannot be happy, but your life in return won't have a solid basis for absolute happiness, and you will be easily deceived. When you don't stand on something strong, you can fall down quite easily."

I don"t understand the first argument you said. It"s not a default position since we"re all born atheists and we don"t believe gods before we get introduced to them. It"s a man-made thing. So it"s not a default position to believe you"re god. I never once said that disbelieving in any deity means you don"t follow a belief system. most belief systems I"ve seen don"t require a god. That"s redundant, you can stand strong without a belief in God. and here"s an anecdote; I honestly improved a lot after losing my belief in God, as I"ve been introduced to critical thinking and skepticism. I"ve started over-look at life even more and tried to look and examining everything around me with essential and critical thinking. atheism does not always lead to unhappiness, provide evidence why it does. It can though, but I"d rather be unhappy and believe in the truth rather than being happy believing in a lie.

I'm sure you've pondered on life's big questions. Who made the world? Why are we here? Who made us? Does life have a purpose? What is that purpose? etc and probably slowly just stopped thinking about it in your mind. Life goes on the same, you're content etc, you don't seem to have to worry about anything. God's not bothering me, I don't need to care, I'm having a good time etc. You're a good person you think. That's ok, but in essence for your life to have meaning you need to ponder on these questions a little more. Not everyday, just when you feel happy to do so. When you take a firm position like you have, you forget to even ask yourself. You are the only one that can answer them, yet you do not face up to them properly. Any day in your life it could be gone, it just may be too late. I certainly hope not, but it can happen.

Yes, I have pondered. I've took my time researching, going to the library, looking it up on the internet, taking with people experienced with life, and I'm just 16 years old.

Honestly, I'm a big procrastinator, so I typed up half of my argument. this is it, it's just I'm very busy also doing other stuff.
bigtown

Pro

Hi Cornelius, it's good that you had a chance to come back to the argument. When I say that you are a practising atheist (that was a little joke) I did not intend to mean that you do all those anti-God things in your life. But you have to admit, you may not have noticed it I know, but there is a general concerted effort throughout the mainstream to actually push a secular or humanist or atheistic agenda. Also at times it is intended to offend people who hold a belief system around a supernatural entity (God).

I think we should get some definitions correct here, as I think we could be confusing each other here. Atheism by its very nature is a belief system. Any word suffixed with -ism is categorised as such. The etymology of the suffix is defined as to being used to form abstract nouns of action, state, condition or doctrine. You can check -ism on wiki and see how these all relate to either belief or doctrine or principle of some kind. And you are correct, not all belief systems require you to believe in God or gods. That's my point with this. And this why we can debate the topic, as it is belief versus belief. We are not discussing religion here as its not the point. There are many beliefs out there for sure, but they can all be classified as either monotheistic (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), polytheistic (Eastern religions in the main and worship many gods) or pantheistic (God is everywhere at all times and in all things) and atheistic (there are no gods and everything is material).

http://en.wiktionary.org...

So, in effect atheism is your belief system. Atheism denies the existence of any supernatural entity to account for anything in the material world. As you are an atheist, you can also call yourself a materialist too as you believe that everything in the universe is essentially reduced to material terms, even your own mind. As I said all of those philosophical questions that are and will continue to be on your material mind will always reduce to a material answer.

When you discuss religions I understand the confusion that can be created. Religion again can be defined many ways as the below will testify to. Religion can be formalised or not I agree. When a group of atheists meet, they are formalising their religion and beliefs.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com...

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:
ideas about the relationship between science and religion
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
SYNONYMS
1.1 [COUNT NOUN] A particular system of faith and worship:
the world"s great religions
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
1.2 [COUNT NOUN] A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion:
consumerism is the new religion

In effect then, as you are a materialist atheist that does not believe in God or gods, your default position is your belief in some person or persons having all the answers to our existence and the meaning of life. That is your belief and your religion. You have put your faith in other persons to come up with all the answers and to tell you how you should live your life. But who are those people who believe they have all the answers to those questions and can explain them in material terms? Are they the superhuman controlling power, only accountable to themselves? Are you being deceived into believing anything they tell you to believe? Atheism is not as innocent as it sounds.

I understand that to you, people who believe in God or gods are religious, and you are not. I think you are rebelling as to what you call religion as it doesn't look or seem right. You are correct, there's a lot of phony beliefs and doctrines in religion, I totally agree. That does not undermine my belief in one supernatural entity that is the Creator of the Universe. I am Christian (non denominational) as I have made a conscious decision to believe in that one all-powerful entity based upon logic and reason and not doctrine or traditions. No, I'm not an atheist toward all other beliefs, I naturally believe that the God (of the Bible) is the only one true God. I believe and know with a high degree of certainty that is the truth. There is only one truth in the world. So you can believe in lies or truth, you cannot be atheistic against other gods or religions as I'm not making a hard conscious decision to disbelieve them. Sure. i've researched them to find truth, but if they do not have truth then they are false. I don't want to believe false doctrine. Yes, it is a belief, just a belief in truth or something other than truth.

God, I assure you is not a man made thing. False gods are man made. That is like saying all truth is man made, there is no absolute truth, which is ridiculous and is contradictory. People are not born 'atheist'. Children ask some of the most philosophical questions from the age of 4 or 5. So what are they thinking? I doubt it is, there is no God. Is it abusive to the child, not to introduce the idea of an entity such as God into their life or confirm what they may be already thinking? Children aren't dumb, they are extremely perceptive. I like your anecdote. My sound and reasonable belief in God came exactly from critical thinking, logic and questioning. That's a good point what is the source of all the logical and mathematical truths in the universe. These transcend space and time. Are these material too?? By the way, I always encourage people to think properly and question everything, that's the point. God is the very essence of order in the universe. If you deny logic, then you deny God, that's what I've learned. Pure logic is divine.

I don't quite understand why you think the idea of God is a lie, and that your belief is true. I would like to know your arguments for that. Has God or your idea of God made you feel angry or disappointed for some reason? I really would like to know.

Ok to sum up, I think I've countered your comments to my arguments, but you have not made any convincing argument as yet, as to why atheism is credible. By the way, I acknowledge your age and will try and temper my reasoning with you. It is difficult, and sometimes I may come across harsh or unfunny. That is not my intent I assure you.

Just one last thing. When atheists speak, sometimes quite harshly, why do they always attack the Christian God of the Bible, and not some other gods? Is it that they don't like Christians or that they really don't like God as such?

Good luck with the next round, if you can find the time to respond.
Debate Round No. 3
Cornelius

Con

"Hi Cornelius, it's good that you had a chance to come back to the argument. When I say that you are a practising atheist (that was a little joke) I did not intend to mean that you do all those anti-God things in your life. But you have to admit, you may not have noticed it I know, but there is a general concerted effort throughout the mainstream to actually push a secular or humanist or atheistic agenda. Also at times it is intended to offend people who hold a belief system around a supernatural entity (God)."

Secularism and Humanism doesn't neccesarily have to associate with atheism. You can be religious and promote humanism too. It's really about separating church and state. not forcing your atheism onto others. You can be a deist and promote humanism too. It's not atheism, really. It's not like they're trying to crumble religion; they're just trying to make it a safer environment for all of us humans; no matter belief system we practice. We just need to practice it around others who share the same views or keep it to our selves instead of forcing into others like in the media, government laws, etc. If they get offended, well they need to grow up and accept it. people also get offend if the opposite religion gets practiced onto them.

"I think we should get some definitions correct here, as I think we could be confusing each other here. Atheism by its very nature is a belief system. Any word suffixed with -ism is categorised as such. The etymology of the suffix is defined as to being used to form abstract nouns of action, state, condition or doctrine. You can check -ism on wiki and see how these all relate to either belief or doctrine or principle of some kind. And you are correct, not all belief systems require you to believe in God or gods. That's my point with this. And this why we can debate the topic, as it is belief versus belief. We are not discussing religion here as its not the point. There are many beliefs out there for sure, but they can all be classified as either monotheistic (Christianity, Judaism, Islam), polytheistic (Eastern religions in the main and worship many gods) or pantheistic (God is everywhere at all times and in all things) and atheistic (there are no gods and everything is material).

http://en.wiktionary.org...;

So apparently, anything that ends in ism is a belief system; Communism, liberalism, etc. That is false as "ism" also means a state of, attributes, conditions, and whatever. Atheism is a state of a person's belief in God. Since atheism is the lack of belief in Gods, not a disbelief in gods. there are atheists out there who have different belief systems.
The only common thing that ties all atheists together is merely a lack of belief in gods. Atheism lacks a lot of what religion has like, traditions, cultures, beliefs, etc.

"So, in effect atheism is your belief system. Atheism denies the existence of any supernatural entity to account for anything in the material world. As you are an atheist, you can also call yourself a materialist too as you believe that everything in the universe is essentially reduced to material terms, even your own mind. As I said all of those philosophical questions that are and will continue to be on your material mind will always reduce to a material answer."

Not really. It's just the lack of belief in gods. There are different types of atheism:
-De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."
-Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung knows there is one."
And atheism doesn't necessarly lead to materialism. There are religions out there that lack belief in Gods but believe in magic and such.

"When you discuss religions I understand the confusion that can be created. Religion again can be defined many ways as the below will testify to. Religion can be formalised or not I agree. When a group of atheists meet, they are formalising their religion and beliefs."

Well, atheists can have different beliefs in religion, since it's just a lack of belief in a god. It's not like they follow any culture or tradition in which would make it a religion. There can be a buddhist who would meet up and discuss his lack of belief in God.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com......

The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:
ideas about the relationship between science and religion
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
SYNONYMS
1.1 [COUNT NOUN] A particular system of faith and worship:
the world"s great religions
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
1.2 [COUNT NOUN] A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion:
consumerism is the new religion

"In effect then, as you are a materialist atheist that does not believe in God or gods, your default position is your belief in some person or persons having all the answers to our existence and the meaning of life. That is your belief and your religion. You have put your faith in other persons to come up with all the answers and to tell you how you should live your life. But who are those people who believe they have all the answers to those questions and can explain them in material terms? Are they the superhuman controlling power, only accountable to themselves? Are you being deceived into believing anything they tell you to believe? Atheism is not as innocent as it sounds."

Believing in a bunch of people (scientists) who provide answers, find and discover new things, prove and disprove stuff, is a religion I guess as you say? Honestly, we're debating about how atheism is not credible and I am against that thought. Not how atheism is a religion. It's not like they're forcing me to believe in their stuff, i just carefully examine the stuff they provide and come to a conclusion whether to accept it or not. I don't automatically believe in everything they say, i just choose what sounds right and makes sense. And atheism is not materialism, although it leads to it. There are some religions which lack gods, btw.

Let's see the definition of religion, again. . re"li"gion

synonyms:faith, belief, worship, creed; More
a particular system of faith and worship.

I'm not worshipping science and critical thinking. Science is a tool which is used to help us humans understand the world more, it helps us discover new things, make things, etc. Not really a belief system. You can never put science as a religion. It lacks traditions, gods, practices, etc. And it doesn't always require faith as it requires evidence and critical thinking into science
faith
noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

I believe on what's based on proof.

"I understand that to you, people who believe in God or gods are religious, and you are not. I think you are rebelling as to what you call religion as it doesn't look or seem right. You are correct, there's a lot of phony beliefs and doctrines in religion, I totally agree. That does not undermine my belief in one supernatural entity that is the Creator of the Universe. I am Christian (non denominational) as I have made a conscious decision to believe in that one all-powerful entity based upon logic and reason and not doctrine or traditions. No, I'm not an atheist toward all other beliefs, I naturally believe that the God (of the Bible) is the only one true God. I believe and know with a high degree of certainty that is the truth. There is only one truth in the world. So you can believe in lies or truth, you cannot be atheistic against other gods or religions as I'm not making a hard conscious decision to disbelieve them. Sure. i've researched them to find truth, but if they do not have truth then they are false. I don't want to believe false doctrine. Yes, it is a belief, just a belief in truth or something other than truth."

Rolls eyes.

God, I assure you is not a man made thing. False gods are man made. That is like saying all truth is man made, there is no absolute truth, which is ridiculous and is contradictory. People are not born 'atheist'. Children ask some of the most philosophical questions from the age of 4 or 5. So what are they thinking? I doubt it is, there is no God. Is it abusive to the child, not to introduce the idea of an entity such as God into their life or confirm what they may be already thinking? Children aren't dumb, they are extremely perceptive. I like your anecdote. My sound and reasonable belief in God came exactly from critical thinking, logic and questioning. That's a good point what is the source of all the logical and mathematical truths in the universe. These transcend space and time. Are these material too?? By the way, I always encourage people to think properly and question everything, that's the point. God is the very essence of order in the universe. If you deny logic, then you deny God, that's what I've learned. Pure logic is divine.

People are indeed born atheists. We get introduced to religion and the idea of god at a young age, it's not like we believe in them since birth. Babies are have no knowledge of the world when they're born on this planet. We introduce them information and they absorb it. It's not like they were Christians in the first place, considering the fact they are unaware of what jesus is. Children ask philosophical questions because they are thirsty for knowledge.

Please type less, I can't address all of these.
bigtown

Pro

Hi Cornelius, I get the distinct impression that you do not wish to continue with the debate, that's a shame.

I've heard no arguments for why atheism is credible at all.

Totally believe in separation of church and state. Likewise secularism and atheism shouldn't be pushed onto others. Eg The theory of evolution is atheistic and is pushed onto schools, should be classed as religion and not science. For 4000 years plus the creation and meaning of life was discussed seriously and then some person decides no we all came from monkeys. Well to me that's atheism versus thesim and nothing to do with proper science at all. Yes it's all about free will, you've got it. I have a right to believe something, but don't want to force it onto others. If they want to listen fine.

Ok, say it each and every way 1000 times, it's a belief that you have no accountability in your life to a higher entity, therefore you do what you want or what somebody else wants you to do. It's simple fact. The rest of your beliefs are just hazy and muddled about the universe and our existence and you have hope that the scientists come up with the answers for you.

Oh the Dawkins seven pointer system - I would move away from such illogical sources if I were you. You are an atheist, there are no grades otherwise you would be an agnostic to those varying degrees. Even he admitted he's an agnostic but he likes to shake people up with headline grabbing punchlines. He likes to deceive people with that. He doesn't believe in God and he hates Him and writes illogical books to prove it. Embarrassing I think.

Magic and such - are you really using that as an argument? Magic means there are supernatural entities. Not God but then evil spirits in essence.

I live with Buddhists by the way. They don't meet up to discuss that fact, and they have views that are even contradictory to scientific evidence of the universe having a start point. They are pantheists.

Ok you don't believe in God or gods so you are now waiting for science to give you all the answers. Who else will provide you with that information. They haven't got any answers on creation and origin that would ever stand up in court to disprove the existence or belief in God. It may seem like it but the more you look at it the more unanswerable questions it raises.

Roll eyes - not sure exactly what argument you were putting forward there was. Maybe none. So still not argument why your belief is credible.

'All people are born atheist (disbelieving in something metaphysical or supernatural)' then at least provide some proof of that fact or an argument as to why that is true. It's too much to go into God versus religious dogma I'm afraid. Anyway where do they get that thirst for knowledge from? Mind, conscience or material brain?

You still didn't tell me where the metaphysical truths in the universe come from, logic and math transcend space and time.

So again you haven't provided any argument for your position at all. not one I'm afraid. I would have expected something from you stating your position and arguments for it. Nothing so far.
Debate Round No. 4
Cornelius

Con

Cornelius forfeited this round.
bigtown

Pro

Hi Cornelius

ok, I see you forfeited the last round and therefore debate presumably. That's a shame.

Repeated requests for some argument from you for your position were therefore ignored I presume. That's the atheist's problem see, there are no positive arguments essentially. Attack is the best form of defence for an atheist as they have nothing. At least brave up to yourself and say at best you are an agnostic, as that is the best position for you to take, and continue to look for answers. Where you are now, you won't find any I assure you and you are left wide open to further deception. If it helps, here is my argument on why atheism or atheists are illogical :

And here is Richard Dawkins on God, a Materialist, Atheist and Darwinist

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”


R13;
Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Now why is this rant illogical?

If you can possibly conceive of there being such an entity as God with his oft quoted attributes, it therefore necessarily exists. This is not the same as imagining.

Richard Dawkins can conceive of such an entity, (he has an idea of what God should be like to him, using his own moral concept as proven by the quoted rant.

Therefore God necessarily exists.

Richard Dawkins has a conception of God, and therefore God necessarily exists (see my first argument). If he had no conception of God he would not need to even contemplate the idea and write a book about it. He would just look clueless and walk away scratching his head.

He also believes the Bible is a fairy tale.

Logical people would not spend so much time bothering about and commentating on fairy tales, unless they were being emotive, either in an effort to deceive themselves or others. I will leave that question open.

Therefore Richard Dawkins is being emotive and illogical in his argument against God.

Richard Dawkins uses what he thinks is his own moral code being a wonderfully evolved superior specimen (haha he wishes) to compare himself to God, and comes out thinking he is morally superior.

Richard Dawkins therefore does think he is more morally superior to a morally superior being, or else he doesn't believe in Him and he hates Him. Wow all of that time and effort to prove a fairy tale character doesn't exist. Doesn't he have some work on the evolutionary fairy tale to prove?

Listen you can investigate the last 4000 years of human history and debate on the subject, or you can listen to a non philosophical evolutionary biologist ranting about a God he doesn't even supposedly believe in, but he hates Him and he wants you to know it. How bizarre.

I know you're young and probably susceptible to it, all I would say is don't believe the hype, and do some research for yourself without bias.


Take care and God bless.
Debate Round No. 5
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Cornelius 2 years ago
Cornelius
I need more votes
Posted by bigtown 2 years ago
bigtown
voter bias i'm afraid :-(
Posted by LifeMeansGodIsGood 2 years ago
LifeMeansGodIsGood
forfeiting two rounds should cost conduct and argument points
Posted by bigtown 2 years ago
bigtown
:-) a joke, ok may be not so funny, but I thought it was
Posted by Cornelius 2 years ago
Cornelius
>Praticising atheist

It makes sense to me. Maybe I attend weekly meetings where I denounce God. Maybe I am involved in missions to third world countries where i preach to them to importance of not having God in your life and the folly of accepting Jesus Christ as their savior.
Posted by bigtown 2 years ago
bigtown
those were your terms, defend your disbelief in God. Forfeit the debate if you like
Posted by bigtown 2 years ago
bigtown
well you don't believe in God, as you're a practising atheist, no? So I have a belief in God. What's the problem?
Posted by Cornelius 2 years ago
Cornelius
bitown, we are talking about how Atheism is not credible, nothing neccessarly with God.
Posted by Cornelius 2 years ago
Cornelius
meh, I'm gonna forfeit this round because I'm a big procrastinator. next time
Posted by bigtown 2 years ago
bigtown
Arctimes your quote

Atheists appeared after some theist proposed the idea of god and not the other way around. So that argument is so wrong - and your sources for that nonsense please?

what planet are you living on? so the atheist person 'arrived' after a person proposed the idea of god?

Again what are your proofs for your argument please? LOL Remember we are talking God, not religion.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Mister_Man 2 years ago
Mister_Man
CorneliusbigtownTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Both parties presented reasonably good arguments, although Pro couldn't grasp the concept that Atheism is a disbelief in a God, not a belief that one doesn't exist. We don't follow a religion or make decisions based around Atheism, we just do what we want. We aren't influenced by any group of people, religious or not, so we don't identify as being a part of a group or belief system such as that. And having a belief system does not automatically make it a religious one or faith-based one. Edge Con, as Pro not only didn't understand what Atheism is, but failed to explain how it is "not credible" in a credible way. Good debetae, nonetheless.
Vote Placed by Splenic_Warrior 2 years ago
Splenic_Warrior
CorneliusbigtownTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:00 
Reasons for voting decision: I found the conduct on both sides abhorrent, the argumentation scant. and the sources unimpressive.