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Atheism is philosophically, mathematically, and scientifically impossible

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/19/2016 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,437 times Debate No: 88496
Debate Rounds (5)
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I take the pro position stating that Atheism is philosophically, mathematically, and scientifically impossible.

First round: acceptance

2nd-5th rounds: anything goes

Here's to a good debate.


I accept.
Debate Round No. 1


Atheism is philosophically impossible:


The Kalam cosmological argument states:

Whatever begins to exist has a cause.

The universe began to exist.


The universe has a cause.

From the conclusion of the initial syllogism, a further premise and conclusion based upon ontological analysis of the properties of the cause:

The universe has a cause.

If the universe has a cause, then an uncaused, personal Creator of the universe exists, who sans the universe is beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful;


An uncaused, personal Creator of the universe exists, who sans the universe is beginningless, changeless, immaterial, timeless, spaceless and enormously powerful.


Atheism is mathematically impossible.

Without God we get a regress in infinite causality. Meaning, we must accept infinite history, which is synonymous with the logic of saying everyone has a mother, but there is no first mother. We have history, but no first history. We have events, but no first event. We have intelligent beings but no first intelligent beings. We must accept that there is no beginning. There is no end. There are infinite you's, me's, and everyone else. There always has been a you. You were, you are, and you will be again, and infinitely into the past and into the future. There was no first you and no last you. There is no first or last anything. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Neither? This is paradoxial, illogical, unacceptable comprehensively, and 100% impossible mathematically.


Atheism is scientifically impossible.

The fact that anything exists or came from anything at all suggests someone beyond physics, mathematics, and philosophy must exist. Otherwise we must accept paradoxes that are beyond mythological in nature from around the board.

The universe/reality is finite or infinite. The door is open or shut. There is no in between. If the universe/reality is finite we must accept that the universe/reality exists literally inside of nothing. This is the equivalent of believing a basketball is sitting there inside of nothing. The entire concept is a logical fallacy. We must always ask,"But what is outside of the ball?" To say,"nothing" creates a full, 100% paradox. The point? For something to exist inside of nothing is completely uncomprehendable and illogical in a finite reality.

If the universe is infinite, we create a number (beyond measure) of paradoxes. In a carnal, physical world, the idea of an infinite "thing" is inconceivable. There are no " infinite things. No physical thing goes on forever. In our reality everything has a beginning. Everything has an end.

Even if we blindly forsake logic, physics, and mathemstics, and declare the universe/reality is infinite, we create many paradoxes including parallel realities, infinite you's, me's, infinite everythings. Everything that has happened has happened before and has never not been happening. We create a regress in infinite everything. Everything exists, and not only does it exist, infinite everythings exist infinitely.


How does this apply to the concept of God?

In a paradoxial finite universe/reality, we must ask who/what is outside of the universe/reality. If it is finite, logically something must exist outside of it. But for this to be true, we cause a regress of "infinite what's outside of thats?"

This concludes that the universe/reality must be infinite. If it is, all things exist. In infinite space and time, in theory, beings greater than us came to be, then greater than them, and greater than them, and even greater and greater infinitely. At some point we reach a singularity in which beings/a being of omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent consciousness and being "is". A singularity occurs at some point that puts forth a "master of reality as we know it. And in infinite space and time, this conscious being has always existed and cannot ever not exist within an eternal reality.

We can accept an omnipotent being through darwinian means in infinite space and time or we can accept an omnipotent being that "is" beyond physics, time, or our reality all together in the way that a computer programmer exists outside of the constructs of the programs or virtual realities he creates. He is beyond its laws, and is in no way governed, in being, by his creation's rules.

We cannot conceptualize the idea of an infinite "thing". Or can we?

There is only one way known to man to project an infinite reality without causing a paradox. A loop with the construct of a program.

Example: This game's world could go on infinitely.

What is a program loop?

Program loops not only suggest design but demand a designer.


missbailey8 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


For this round I will get theologically deep.
To start I present to you the Hajj of Islam:
"I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and the word of God."
(Revelation 20:4)
"ISIS declares war on the cross, beheading Christians"
What/who is antichrist?
"Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist--denying the Father and the Son."
(1 John 2:22)
So specifically denying the "Son" is antichrist.
The Quran (Muhammed's words) says Jesus is not the Son of God word for word multiple times.
"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the FALSE PROPHET had been thrown."
(Revelation 20:10)
Great "False prophet" that denounces Christ? Here's one, and he is infallable.
In Islam one recites the shahada, the testimony of faith. Who is the "Great prophet"? Muhammed. He is so infallable that he cannot be depicted. He thought he got his revelation(The Quran) from a demon. He was accused of demon posession as a child.
Muhammed is the "Great Holy Prophet" of Islam.
"The 2nd beast was given power to give breath to the image of the 1st beast, so that the IMAGE could speak and cause all who refused to bow to the image to be KILLED."
(Revelation 13:15)(Bible)
Muslims bow to a graven image, towards Mecca, specifically to the Kaaba, and even more specifically to the black stone within the Kaaba. If you do not accept Allah, under the Sharia, the penalty is DEATH.
Let's back up what the penalty is. Richard Dawkins asks what the penalty is.
Islam holds that the black stone "fell from heaven" to show Adam and Eve where to build an alter to it.
In the Bible Adam and Eve were deceived by Satan. In the Bible Satan seeks worship from angels, people, and even Christ Himself as though he himself were God.
All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."(Satan to Christ)(Matthew 4:9)(Bible)
"He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God."(Satan)
(2 Thessalonians 2:4)
In the hadith it says,"Thus Allah wrote this confirmation. And this stone has a pair of eyes, ears and a tongue and it opened its mouth to speak upon the order of Allah (swt), who put that confirmation in it and ordered to witness it to all those worshippers who come for Hajj."
(Allah did not come along until 600-700 AD through Muhammed.)
"Instead of them, he will honor a god of war; a god unknown to his ancestors will be honored with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts."
(Daniel 11:38)
During Ramadan Muslims give gifts to Allah. The more they give, the better reward in the afterlife.
Isaiah 17:1
"This message came to me concerning Damascus: 'Look, Damascus will fall! It will become a heap of ruins."
"Damascus has been leveled"
"He will cause deception to prosper, and he will consider himself SUPERIOR. By PEACE, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes.(Christianity)"
(Daniel 8:25)(Bible)
"A believing Muslim slave is SUPERIOR to an unbeliever."(2:221)(Quran)
"Islam is peace"
London Bombings
Boston Marathon
San Bernerdino
Fort Hood
"The great city, Jerusalem, split into three parts, eventually the great cities of the nations collapsed."
(Revelation 16:19)
Jerusalem is now divided between 3 religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. When this was written Christianity was new and had no claim to a part of Jerusalem. Islam did not even exist at all yet.
There will be on the earth distress of nations in perplexity."
(Luke 12:25)(Bible)
-Europe is facing an "Immigration and refugee crisis".

-Donald Trump calls for "Complete and total shutdown of Muslims entering the country."

-Poland declares anti-Islamic "Revolution".

-Conservatives are "going to build a wall".

-Syria falls into civil war.

-Syrian conflict escalades. WW3 iminant?

-North Korea threatens to nuke U.S.

-Iran threatens to "Wipe Israel off the map".

-Iran threatens to nuke Saudi Arabia

-U.S. begins military "demonstrations of power" near China/North Korea

-ISIS rises to power, genocides and beheads Christians on crusade of terror.

-Sweden, because of immigration becomes "rape capital of Europe".

-Hillary Clinton caught up in Benghazi debacle.

-Trump rallies become violent. Sanders' rally taken over by BLM.

-Anonymous rises, hacks U.S. government.

-China accused of hacking U.S. government.

-Terrorist bombings, mass shootings, beheadings, burning alive of children, genocides...

-Saudi Arabia calls for destruction of all Christian churches.

-The Iran deal worth $150 billion is signed.

-Immediately following, Iranian "death to America!" Chants start up.

-The question never is satisfied whether the U.S. President is a Muslim or a Christian or even an American citizen.

-The Obama "kill list" becomes known to public.

-Angela Merkel of Germany opens up Germany to Immigrants/refugees. Now her stepping down is calked for after chaos, rape jihad, and violence erupt.

-Sharia "no go zones" beginning to be admitted by officials and police.

And...what are the odds of the Bible being this spot on? Insermountably low, unless it's "inspired". If it is inspired, which mathematical probability alone declares its validity or legitimacy to be taken seriously, then the odds of Atheism being possible become zilch.


missbailey8 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


An Atheist will point to survival of the fittest in his/her philosophical construct. If this idea is 100% true, then let us look at what that really means.

1)The fittest are us. We are the survivors at the top of the "animal.kingdom", if you will.

2)The fittest have a scientific, psychological need for God.

3)We have a psychological and scientific need for God, and it was us who survived.


One question that tends to pop up every once in a while during debates between Christians and Atheists is “who lives longer: Christians or Atheists?” of course there is no guarantee that finding Jesus will automatically lengthen your lifespan, there are several studies that have proposed that religious people, such as Christians, tend to live longer than atheists and those who are not involved in a religion.

There are many theories as to why Christians tend to live longer than atheists. Some studies suggest that people who regularly go to church, pray and/or study the Bible are less likely to have high blood pressure than those who do not. This makes a sense based on the idea that all of these activities tend to promote meditation, relaxation, etc and are good ways to relieve stress. Having enough faith to put your life into the hands of a higher power can be a freeing experience that allows you to relax and take what is given to you in life. What it comes down to is the less stress you experience, the less likely you are to suffer stress related physical ailments, which might bring on an earlier death.

Another reason why being Christian may help you live longer is that Christians tend to be very conservative when dealing with ideas in modern day society that can cause serious and sometimes life threatening problems. For example, atheists may not be thrilled with drug or alcohol use, but non religious people definitely tend to have a more relaxed attitude towards those using drugs, especially if they do so in a way that is proposed to be “responsible,” such as only smoking pot or drinking alcohol in moderation. Christians, on the other hand, are far less willing to put up with much or any drug/alcohol use, which discourages people to cut down on drinking and doing drugs long before they develop serious medical problems such as cirrhosis or even brain damage.

One thing that helps influence the length of your life span is having meaningful and healthy relationships. The idea is that people who are involved in relationships that increase happiness tend to be healthier. Being part of a supportive religious community tends to help relationships. If something goes wrong, they can turn to someone. This is not to say that atheists don’t belong to close-knit communities, but that Christians are more likely to belong to these types of groups.

Christian values such as forgiveness and feeling that life has a deeper purpose can also contribute to lifespan. Being a forgiving person and knowing your purpose in life help lower your stress levels.


Billy Graham - God loves you (short)


Richard Dawkins-

"The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference."

And therein lies the issue of why Atheism is illogical. In the hierarchy of psychological needs within psychology, scientifically, we need for happiness and contentment:

1)Postive focus

2)Unconditional love

3)Purpose and meaning


5)Feeling safe

The point? Atheism satisfies none of this. With Atheism there is no good, no evil, just pitiless indifference. No meaning, no purpose, we are simply dna replicaters in a fight to survive. There is a negative, not a positive focus. The focus is, we will die, there is no one that cares, we are not safe, there is no victory, there is no point. The world and our children will suffer a cosmic heat death as the sun burns up or goes supernova. This is it. You have no hope. I have no hope. My children have no hope. This is the recipe for mental AND physical destruction. This mindset causes unsermountable stress. This mind is constantly in a sense of fight or flight, faced with the knowledge of their ultimate death. Stress breaks down the body. Stress causes sickness and breaks down the immune system. Stress kills.

The Atheist mind is psychologically defeated at every turn. There is no victory, point, nor is there anyone to lean on in the final hour as the sand drizzles to the bottom of the vile.

But the Theist has hope, has purpose, has meaning, has unconditional love from above, has someone to lean on, has a positive teaching and belief to focus on.

I have shown there is plenty of reason to believe. There is plenty of logic in belief. Some of the smartest people on Earth believe. The fact is, Christianity offers you something. Atheism offers nothing, literally.



missbailey8 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


brontoraptor forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
58 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Dragon_of_Christ 2 years ago

Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 years ago
Lets try another example: Say you are in your house and your door bell rings. Now I ask you the question did somebody ring your door bell?

The House is our reality. You are you. The Door Bell is the question of what is outside, what else is there.

Now going with everything we have done, it would be wrong to state that nothing rung your door bell. It would be possible for someone to be there. Finally the Agnostic point of view, just not knowing what made the sound. Obvious as said again and again, the Agnostic View would be the most logical and Theist view would be possible. However the Atheist is impossible.

From this we can see that believing in Nothing is much more fantasy based than believing someone is there.

Atheism is a fantasy and insanity.

Theism is possible but may be idealistic.

Agnosticism is logical and curious.

So again, two choices, Theism or Agnosticism.

However I will not expect this to convince you because we have already had this same discussion and conclusion and I know you do not wish to accept this fact. Hence will just hope you someday become more open minded.

P.S Do you have anything to back up your opinion that God is fantasy? I have given many examples and logic and philosophy, math, sciences ect... however you have given nothing. Just like Atheism offers, nothing, no answers, no logic, nothing. I understand you do not care for things like logic, however I do not know how to reach you otherwise. So best I can say is, Just Wait. One day, I hope you will accept the truth before you die and it is too late for you.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 years ago
Insanity is doing an act over and over expecting different results. While I state that God exist regardless of the act. Pretty much the opposite of Insanity. However you stating God is a fantasy over and over and expecting me to change my view and agree is what is truly insane by definition.
Posted by canis 2 years ago
But funny to see how theist become insane when cornered...
Posted by canis 2 years ago
Anyway. God is your fantasy. Schrodinger had a cat to put into his theory.... You have nothing.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 years ago
So much for Miss bayely offering a debate.
Posted by dsjpk5 2 years ago
Let me know when it's time to vote.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 years ago
I mean you say God is fantasy but then say fantasy of a box you dont have can become a box of what you do have, meaning fantasy can create reality meaning God is real, but not at the same time. Hence you can't say he doesnt exist, and this conclusion as fits the Schrodingers Cat Theory. So again point proven.
Posted by Stonehe4rt 2 years ago
With the logic you are going with, if I understand you correct, it would be no different to state that your fantasies are not fantasies but instead you are literally creating something with your mind? Maybe, it's not impossible, just like you said nothing is impossible. Regardless you proved my point. It is always to assume that things are impossible.
Posted by canis 2 years ago
"Hence maybe the fantasies that I can make in my mind are not really being created from my mind but from some external force? It wouldnt be impossible."...
Nothing is impossible when it comes to our fantasy. But it is false to assume that a fantasy is not a fantasy... By creating a new fantasy....I have a box of.... "impossible things that I do not really have".....Can become... a box of..."possible things that I do have"....
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