The Instigator
Aicha
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
FieryNyan
Pro (for)
Winning
13 Points

Atheism

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
FieryNyan
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/26/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 474 times Debate No: 88794
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (6)

 

Aicha

Con

I started this debate not willing to hear hateful comments, I just want write why do I believe in God all mighty. First of all I just want to state that I follow the islamic faith and I believe in all the prophets peace be upon them and I do believe in mericles as well and I believe that there is a one and only god SWT.
State what do you believe in, in the first round and we will state the reasons in the second round.
FieryNyan

Pro

I accept this debate. Don't worry, I will respect your comments, and refrain from being hateful.

If you indeed would like to write why you believe in God, wouldn't it be better if our stand change to :

You: God does exist.
Me: God doesn't exist.

If you'd like, you can change the argument to you arguing for the Islamic faith, and I argue against it.

I'm a Deist, but I'll just debate here for the sake of a challenge.
Debate Round No. 1
Aicha

Con

As you wish, to prove that god is real we will start from the human being it self and the creation of it. 1400 years ago it the human embryo development was mentioned in the holy Quraan ((We created man from an extract of clay. Then We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed. Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed-like substance))... [Noble Quran 23:12-14] for more details check out this link http://scienceislam.com... . And this was all mentioned way before any devices were discovered obviously, which is a strong reason that god is real.
FieryNyan

Pro

So you'll agree that it's Islamic faith vs. Atheism, right?

Very well, let us start from human beings!

Let me start by saying this; If the Islamic faith is indeed the true faith, why isn't it considered the earliest religion?

Islamic faith boast of a singular all-powerful deity, but why the usage of the word "We"? We is a plural pronoun.

If God is all-powerful, why go through the trouble of creating human beings? What is his motive? Furthermore, why is God biased for "His People", His "Chosen Race"? If he likes them only, why go creating other races? Why allow those races to continue living? If all he's gonna care is his chosen people, then why don't he just keep his people?

About the verse you brought up, it could be a coincidence. To quote for Vsauce: "If you look at the KJV Bible, Psalms 46, the 46th word is "Shake", and 46th word from the back is "Spear", and also, William Shakespeare was 46th years old when the KJV Bible was completed. Was this planned? No. Given enough searching, enough words, enough data, you can eventually find and should expect all types of neat coincidence. This is, probability." Furthermore, from the word, you found that symbolism, because you WANT to find it. To others, they may perceive it as God rolling a joint from clay, or chewing on a tobacco. Your brain is programmed to find symbolism in anything, and if you have the mindset to look for clues regarding creation, you will surely be able to find it.

Symbolism is never a great thing. If I say something like, "The darkness shrouded me. I walked and walked, and a light shone. Raced forward, and I see, a shining, bright stone fall from the sky, taking away a third of the world." and it is written, 2000 years later, someone might just say "Omg, prophet FieryNyan predicted the atomic bombs. The darkness symbolizes the despair, and hopelessness of the war against the Japanese. The Americans tried, and tried, but they couldn't do anything, until the atomic bomb, the small slither of hope, appeared and killed many. Prophet FieryNyan is amazing." Or, it could just mean I was walking in a cave, and as I walked out of the cave, I saw a spear, with an iron tip come out of the sky, and killed my best friend, which meant the world to me. Or, it could mean anything else. The point is, symbolism should never be used to dictate historical fact. It's better used in fictions.
Debate Round No. 2
Aicha

Con

Actually Islam, Christianity and Judaism are considered one religion as they all call for worshipping one god all mighty. But god's "chosen race" as jewish call themselves is nothing but a myth. And the prophet (PBUH) said: "O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no virtue of an Arab over a foreigner nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness. Have I not delivered the message?"
And Allah (SWT) said:
"O people, We have created you male and female and made you nations"and tribes that you may know one another. Verily, the most noble of you to Allah is the most righteous of you. Verily, Allah is knowing and aware."
Why Did God Create Everything?

Allah says in His Quran He did not create all of this for any foolish purpose. Allah Says:
"And I did not Create the jinn and humans except they should worship Me". [Noble Quran 51:56]

-He created us for the purpose of worshiping Him, Alone and without any partners.

"And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds. But if you were to say to them: "You shall indeed be raised up after death," those who disbelieve would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious magic." [Noble Quran 11:7]
-Allah has created all we call the universe as a test for us. This is not our final destination. What we might consider to be "bad" or "good" could actually be quite the opposite.
For more info. check out this link :
http://www.godallah.com...

And about why does Allah all mighty refers to himself as we? a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. He may also use the word ana (I), indicating one person, or the third person huwa (he). All three styles are used in the Qur"an, where Allaah addresses the Arabs in their own tongue. (Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa"imah, 4/143).

I do agree that Quraan is full of symbolisms and this shows the beauty of quraan and ability of Allah to create such an awesome book without any mistakes. But have you ever wondered why do we have a prophet? It is simply to clarify what's written in the holy book.
FieryNyan

Pro

You say Quraan is full of symbolism to show beauty. I say it's written by men to cover up their asses. Instead of writing "Hitler died on 1984", it's better to write "As the sun set, the despicable men who killed many died as (Insert some symbolism stuff here)" Instead of using accurate details, men used symbolism to make something subjective, able to cover its tracks next time against science. Instead of saying "361 bones", isn't it just safer to say "many bones?"

Let us go on to why God would go through so much trouble. If he is so great, why not just create humans without free choice? Ok, maybe God wants us to love him on our own accord, but why? If he is so great, why would he want pettiness such as us meer mortals worshipping him? What does he benefit from it? Nothing!

Anyways, going out on a tangent here, why free- will? If God is all powerful, able to perceive time as a single entity, seeing the past, present, and future, all-knowing, he'd know humans would be messed up. Why did he continue with this act?

God created the world in 6 days. Before we proceed, please tell me your take on the Big Bang Theory and Evolution, before I proceed on my case. For now, I'll refrain from speaking of these theories before hearing your stand on it.

Through geographical evidence, the earth has been 4.3 billion years. How they measure this is they drill down the earth, and pull out earth sample. This way, one can see the different layers of soil, each layer showing a different era.
Debate Round No. 3
Aicha

Con

How come this whole universe is created by the Big Bang? Okay lets say that the Big Bang is real then who caused it happen what caused the big bang to appear ? For every creation there is creator, then who created the big bang.
Check out this link which is a proove that Quraan is written by god: http://www.missionislam.com...
FieryNyan

Pro

There are many scientific proof of the Big Bang. The fact that the universe is slowly expanding is one major proof. For something to expand, it must've been squashed together initially into a very dense "singularity", and the rapid eruption of this singularity caused the Big Bang, and hence, why our galaxy is still expanding even today. For more evidence, head on to : http://www.schoolsobservatory.org.uk...

Another thing I have to say regarding God is, if He indeed does exist, why the heck was he so active last time, and now, he's barely existing? Like, you see him creating all these miracles, all types of prophets, nonstop revelations. But now? I don't see miracles that happened frequently back then. Did God slowly back off the more science developed? Hmm... Why, though?

I have an explanation for this. The more science develops, the more mysteries are explained. What people deemed as the wrath of God was soon explained to be seismic waves, which in turn causes earthquakes. What people deemed God looking away, and required humans to sacrifice and make noises to "awake" the sun God, is soon explained as an Eclipse. Back then, when faced with a dilemma which no one can solve, what easier way to dump the thinking away by just explaining it as "God's will"? Oh, sudden deaths of people? Someone sinned! Today, though, if many people starts dying, doctors would call it an epidemic. So, as science slowly solves the mysteries, God's powerful miracles and signs soon disappears, as signs that used to be supernatural became... natural occurrences.

After reading that article of yours, all I can say is it doesn't make a good argument, at all. It offers only three options. That's a limitation on its own. Just because you scratch off two of your answers doesn't make the third the only answer. Following the logic of the website, would it mean that if someone ask me what 1+1 is, and if I think it's either 3, 4 or 5, and I manage to show that it is neither 3 nor 4, does that mean the answer is 5? Obviously not. Hence forth, that argument is totally invalid.

Just because people think Arabs are all those, doesn't mean everyone is that way. It's just stereotyping people into groups, just because the majority acts this way. If a new race, called the Examplerians, consisting of four people against abortion, and 1 person for abortion, is it write to say doctors of the Examplerians' race would never allow the act of abortion, since Examplerians are totally against abortion? What about that 1 dude that would do it? Just because the majority treats women like animals, worship idols, and drinking, doesn't mean everyone does. If this logic work, Noah would've been wiped off too, since most of the people were already sinning, so might as well wipe everyone out right? Since I've shown that not all Arab might've been against this, so the argument used to show that the Quran was inspired(No Arabs would write this, blahblahblah) is proven false.

Sure, Mohammed could not write. Doesn't mean he can't speak. Take St. Paul of the Christian faith for example. He used Timothy as his scribe, as he dictated his epistles for the rest. It doesn't have to be Mohammed who writes it; just has to be his idea.

I've shown that the logic used by the website is wrong, the Arabs might've written the Quran, and even showed that Mohammed could've just dictated what he want written to someone else.

P.S. I'd prefer if you give me a summary next time instead of just dumping the whole website on me.
Debate Round No. 4
Aicha

Con

And you still didn't answer my question on who caused the big bang to appear?

Your question on why god stopped sending prophets and miracles. Simply because it's written in the holy quraan that the prophet Mohammed (PBUH) is the last prophet. And about the miracles, if you've read the Qura'an you will know that many things that were mentioned in the quraan over 1400 years ago are happening now, which is a miracle itself . Which also answers your question on who wrote the quraan. And for your knowledge many arabs tried to write something similar to the quraan but they couldn't because no one can ever write something like the holy Qura'an. And by the phrase "he couldn't read or write" it means he wasn't educated how come a person who isn't educated write a book as great as the quraan? And how come he can discribe the development of human embryo and many other things that are so precise , please don't tell me that it's a coincidence.
And since it's the last round I advise you to read the Quraan, trust me you will find out that it is waaaaaay different than any other book you've read.
And I apologize for providing you a link without the summary.
Best regards,
Aicha
FieryNyan

Pro

I did show prove and evidence for the Big Bang. If what you're asking is about the "Singularity", my answer would be a question: "Who created God", or "How did he exist?" Your answer will most likely be similar to mine, but mine has scientific prove for it, yours doesn't. Back then, when we face earthquakes, we did not have any explanation for it, as science has yet to advance far enough. However, does that mean just because we cannot explain something, it doesn't exist? Simply not! Why, though? Because we can observe it. It's only a matter of time until science catches up and explains it. Similarly, it's just a matter of time until science catches up and explains more about this "singularity"

That's no excuse lol. I can also say that look, Thor promised to get rid of all the Ice Giants. Look, today there is no trace of Ice Giants right? Hail Lord Thor!

Regarding your prophesies, I'll make some prophesy now. "Another huge war will erupt", and "Many beasts shall perish" and also "Men shall enter another building strapped with bombs and kill lots of people.". Oh, don't forget "Another phone company shall appear, defeating both Apple and Samsung." Want more? I can go on. Like I said, probability. Write a list of vague sentence, and in 10,000 years, look at it again. If it doesn't happen, now that's a miracle. I already explained probability above. Oh, by the way, to the readers 100 years from now: If these come true, don't go writing a book and starting a religion after me. I'll be kinda shy. But if you must, I think it'll be best to call me after my real name, Max, instead of FieryNyan.

"And for your knowledge many arabs tried to write something similar to the quraan but they couldn't because no one can ever write something like the holy Qura'an. "

That means out of the many who attempted, one lucky Arab managed to do it. Just because many failed, doesn't mean all will fail. Look at the book industry. Many people fail, but look at J.K. Rowlings. She succeeded.

"And by the phrase "he couldn't read or write" it means he wasn't educated how come a person who isn't educated write a book as great as the quraan?"

First off, great is very subjective. Second of all, it doesn't have to be his exact words. Many YouTubers and celebrities have hired writers to write about their lives. All they tell is the main events. They will then leave it to the wonderful writers out there to weave their beautiful words.

"And how come he can discribe the development of human embryo and many other things that are so precise , please don't tell me that it's a coincidence."

It isn't precise at all. It's filled with lots of symbolisms. For example, let me make a beautiful "prophesy" on a future iPhone. I'll be using my FieryNyan language in it, to add more flare to my prophesy. Bracketed would be its translation: "It will be made up with a Itjskkkttu (Clear screen, mirror to the next world, beautiful), with a Rjejeook (Eye to the world, camera, memory keeper). Its RAM is 2wwdk008 (Many, a lot, 4gb), and its app will be as plenty as the stars." Once again, worshippers of the Max-ism religion, don't go parading when my prediction comes true.

Aicha, it is a great opportunity to be able to debate with you. I really enjoyed this debate. Please don't think less of me for my harsh arguments. That's just my facade when it comes to debating. I hope my arguments have shed more light to you. Yes, I would be looking forward to read the Quraan; more knowledge is always good. I'm pretty sure it'll be a new experience.

It's ok about the link :) Next time, you can include the link , but please also include a summary.

Cheers,
Fiery "Max" Nyan
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by TUF 8 months ago
TUF
This debate is set up so vote bombers like dsjpk5 can abuse their voting privileges with no repercussions.
Posted by whiteflame 8 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: dsjpk5// Mod action: NOT Removed<

3 points to Con (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision:

[*Reason for non-removal*] Voters are not required to provide RFDs, so votes on this debate are not moderated.
************************************************************************
Posted by Calebss 8 months ago
Calebss
The Con said that the Koran is unlike any book he has read.

FALSE.

GO read the Bible, the Koran literally " Copy and pastes straight from the BIble".

Islam gives it's members the right to lie to non- believers, that would explain why he failed to mention that. I guess he was too busy doing something with those goats, or whatever they do with them.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by TUF 8 months ago
TUF
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Reasons for voting decision: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14JksWySkZSA49OrGOZLcpqqoXjaQ25-b0vLsFMDREkI/edit?usp=sharing
Vote Placed by famousdebater 8 months ago
famousdebater
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Vote Placed by tejretics 8 months ago
tejretics
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Reasons for voting decision: Con doesn't exactly elucidate why atheism is a false position or why God exists. All Con manages to elucidate is that holy books (such as the Bible and Quran) have multiple predictions when interpreted metaphorically. Pro explains how metaphorical interpretations are very broad and allow people to generalize from those interpretations multiple possible predictions, arguing that there is little explanatory power in considering such an unclear message a prophecy. I agree with Pro here, since Con doesn't clearly explain how the said verse talks about human embryo development. Furthermore, I don't really see any relevance of human embryo development to the resolution. On the contrary, Pro has a clear -- although somewhat weak -- case to support their side. Pro argues that the idea of God has been used as an explanation for multiple phenomena, and, gradually, most observed phenomena are explained without God, e.g. the Big Bang for the origin of the universe. Pro wins.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 8 months ago
Ragnar
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Reasons for voting decision: "I do believe in mericles as well and I believe that there is a one and only god SWT." Please use spell check, and when using odd terms explain what they mean. Beyond that, as this debate does not call for RFD's, the outcome is too likely to be a popularity contest to be properly worth weighing.
Vote Placed by queencoop 8 months ago
queencoop
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Vote Placed by dsjpk5 8 months ago
dsjpk5
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