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Atheists have more faith than Theists

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/24/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 298 times Debate No: 91782
Debate Rounds (5)
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Atheists have more faith than Theists.

The basic construct of the debate is it takes more faith to have unbelief in a god than to have a belief in a god.

1st Round: Acceptance
All other rounds: Anything goes.



i accept, hope to have an intelligent debate
Debate Round No. 1


-Even Atheist "experts" aren't fully convinced.

In an interview with Ben Stein, Richard Dawkins, Atheist, English ethologist, evolutionary biologist and author said," Now, that is a possibility and an intriguing possibility and I suppose it’s possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the detail, details, of biochemistry, molecular biology, you might find a signature of some sort of designer."


-James Gates, American physicist, known for work on supersymmetry, supergravity, and superstring theory, while exploring the mathematics of string theory, Physicist, James Gates and his researchers discovered something rather interesting buried within the construct of the mathematical equations of super symmetry. They found computer code.

And it is not just random 1’s and 0’s. Oddly, the code they found is code which is used in computer browser operating system software.Specifically? Block Linear Self Dual Error Correcting Code.

When transmitting information from one computer to another computer, there are fluctuations that happen, such as static in the line, that can alter the original information that has been sent.

Block Linear Self Dual Error Correcting Codes are neccessary in the exchange of digital information as they monitor the codes sent and measure it against what’s already known, self adjusting as required in order to 100% accurately transmit and receive the correct information.

Here is an actual interview with Gates, if interested-


Finite Set vs. Infinite Set -Finite Set-

-The set of all persons in America is a finite set.

-The set of all birds in California is a finite set.

-Infinite Set- 5. N = (1, 2, 3, ……….) i.e. set of all natural numbers is an infinite set.

Z = (……… -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, ……….) i.e. set of all integers is an infinite set.

So what?

Well...Atheism is mathematically impossible. This is what gave power to philosophical concepts such as the Kalam Cosmological Argument and many others.

If an atheist claims that our entire reality is finite, meaning with borders, they now must explain where the expanding universe is heading OR what is outside of it. They must explain how something can exist inside nothing. They must convince themselves that a basketball can literally hang inside nothing. To make this claim is extremely faith based. The atheist must accept that magic or unexplainable power exists to claim this model.

If the atheist claims our reality is infinite, then they have accepted the above formula confirming that time has no beginning and space or reality is infinite.

Infinity has interesting constructs mathematically and philosophically.

With infinity all things exist. There are infinite you's, me's, Earth's, infinite everything that is possible or conceivable. There was no first you, are now infinite you's, and have always been infinite you's, and will always be infinite you's.

It works the same way for the highest possible, highest conceivable being. The highest conceivable being that thinks the fastest, moves the fastest, loves the most, hates the most, can do the most, knows the most, lives the most, is immortal, is all powerful, that is the master of reality by default, has always existed, exists now, and will never not exist.

An atheist might pose that time did not exist before the Big Bang, etc. Any such model forsakes philosophically that if time did not exist, nothing could have happened in the first place. This is a fallacy of logic.


Fred Hoyle, Father of Nucleosynthesis, once said ,"Religion is but a desperate attempt to find an escape from the truly dreadful situation in which we find ourselves. No wonder then that many people feel the need for some belief that gives them a sense of security, and no wonder that they become very angry with people like me who say that this is illusory."

Hoyle used the "Steady State Theory" as a model to break down creationism and refute any creationist model. While working on his theory of nucleosynthesis, Hoyle found something strange. He found what appeared to be a bizzare barrier in the study of nuclear fusion. In tests, it was found that the nucleosynthesis process should quit with the element beryllium, never proceeding along the Periodic Table to the complicated atoms that are neccessary for life.

Decades of work convinced Hoyle, that stars form a full spectrum of elements because an isotope of carbon can catalyze the leap to atoms more complicated than beryllium. The existence of this carbon isotope was statistically unlikely, in fact impossible. But it turned out that exactly the correct isotope is present in stars like our sun. Hoyle was perplexed by this discovery because to him the presence of an unlikely substance within the blazing heat of stars, without which there could never exist planets or life, suggested a guided hand. He then claimed his atheism was shaken by an indication of purpose.

This started a change in his beliefs, which was perpetuated by the discovery of the carbon isotope. This led Hoyle to start pondering the existence or purpose of life.

Hoyle soon argued that life, in the form of animate compounds, could not have just magically appeared one day, and said that the chances of that happening was "worse than a group of monkeys that were chained to typewriters, eventually typing out Hamlet." Hoyle claimed that it would take the monkeys billions of years just to come up with a grocery list if they could even do that. Further studies showed that it took the monkeys hours to even stumble across the shortest of words, and would never be able to write out Shakespeare. Since he conclusively proved that life was not just simply created, he believed that life was brought to Earth through the influence of some higher intelligence. He didn’t exactly know what to do with this, and claimed that either some sort of advanced natural intelligence, or perhaps a God played a role in our being.

The theories got him into trouble. It was horrible that he, being an atheist, was actually admitting that God or something godlike has to exist.


Fermi Paradox and Drake Equation-

The Fermi paradox is the contradiction between the lack of evidence and high probability estimates, given by the Drake equation, for the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations. The Drake Equation states that by probability alone, just our piece of the galaxy should be teaming with intelligent life. So...where is everybody? It appears that it's just us....

And thus...Atheism is the most faith based belief or lack of belief system known to man. God is an answer. Intelligent design is an answer. Fulfilled prophecies beyond comprehension is an answer. Religious experiences is an answer. Purpose with grand design is an answer.

"Nuttin done it" is not an answer, nor is it logically sound. It simply implies a fairytale that claims magic must exist naturally...


will9925452 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


The Bible predicts the future-

According to the Bible, mainly in the book of Revelation, here are things that would happen in the future.

1)A great Prophet will arrive and specifically renounce Christ as the Son of God.

(The Dome of the Rock says word for word,"Jesus is not the Son of God.")
(Muhammed is the "Great Prophet" of Islam. He cannot even be drawn or depicted.)

2)His followers will behead Christians in droves. (Who's beheading who nowadays?)

3)His god will be placed into power at the Temple Mount. Not somewhere else, but right there in that exact spot.(The temple is Islamic right now, today, in real life.)

4)His followers will bow to a graven image.

(All 1.7 billion Muslims bow toward the Kaaba.)

5)Revelation 12:9, 13:1, 20:2, tells us the prophet and his followers get power and authority from Satan. Antichrist (the beast) is the false guise of Satan himself.

Can I get even more specific? Am I just guessing? No. We are given a pattern to know who and what it all is that makes it simple to discern.



Revelation 12:9

"..who is called the devil and Satan, who is the DECIEVER of the whole world."

(Quran 3:54)

"Allah is the greatest of DECIEVERS."


2 Corinthians 11:13-15

"Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."

-Sira, Ibn Hisham p.60

"When Muhammed's mother asked if I feared a demon possessed him, I replied that I did."

-Sira, Ibn Hisham

"Muhammad’s mental condition was a matter of concern in his childhood. His wet nurse proclaimed he was demon possessed."

Al-Abyad, a demon is the friend of the prophets and he is the one who went to the Prophet (pbuh) in the form of Gabriel.

Al-Qurtubi (arabic) 242/19 /

The angel that came to Muhammed was claimed by Muhammed to be a demon. It later convinced him it was Gabriel to prevent Muhammed from killing himself.

(Tafsir al-Qurtubi is a famous Qur’an exegesis by the famous classical scholar Al-Qurtubi. d.671H.

Al-Qurtubi (arabic) 37/18 / )

-Allah, strangely has no name. He is nameless. Allah simply means "God" in Arabic.


Let's get to the nitty gritty. Revelation tells us this group that follows an "antichrist prophet" and beheads Christians, and bows to a graven image will not inherit the kingdom of God but eternal damnation. (Revelation 14:9, 14:10)

(Revelation 20:10)

Satan, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.


Well...God told us earlier specifically who will not inherit the kingdom of God, so there is no doubt.

God established who was His and who was not and in very specific fashion.

(Genesis 21:10)

"And she said to Abraham, "Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that woman's son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac."

(Genesis 21:12)

God said to Abraham, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your slave woman. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."

God rejected Ishmael and his descendants in the first book of the Bible.

Who are Ishmael's descendents?


2)The Arabs


Why was Ishmael and his descendents rejected?

(Genesis 16:12)

They will be like an untamed beast; their hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against them, and they will live in hostility toward all."

So, was the Bible right?

-"9/11, First Tower Falls"

"Belgium Attack footage"

"London Bombing"

"Boston Marathon Bombing"

"San Bernardino Massacre"

"Tahurrish, Islamic Rape Jihad on Infidel Women"

"Lara Logan raped during Broadcast"

"Rape Jihad. The Rape of Cologne"

"Muslim Rape of Sweden"

"Violence at Swedish movie"

"Cop shot in name of Allah"

"Oklahoman beheaded at work"

Burn alive & drown infidels



will9925452 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


"To be an Atheist one would have to be omniscient, knowing all things, having a perfect knowledge of the universe, to say they absolutely know God does not exist. For one to do this they would have to have personally inspected all places in the present known universe and in all time, having explored everywhere seen and unseen."

-Norman Geisler

"I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Athiest"


DNA is a code of information, a set of instructions.

The genetic code is the set of rules by which information encoded within genetic material (DNA or mRNA sequences) is translated into proteins by living cells.

2nd set of DNA instructions-


What we know:

1)The equations used to describe the universe are binary error correcting comluter code.

2)DNA is a code, a language, a set of instructions.


Binary codes in the construct of reality-

Binary code converts all information into a code, a bit, that either can be a on or off a 1 or a 0. All the complex data that is transferred via the information technology revolution is actually transmitted as a series of ons and offs. The on and off or 1 and 0 represent 2 states, presence and absence, an on and off switch of being and not being.

The transmitting computer codes the data into this simplified binary signal, a machine language that is incomprehensible to our conventional sense organs. It transmits this signal as a coded off and on signal. The receiving computer then decodes this data, reconverts it into information comprehensible to our human senses. This binary system reduces all information to an either/or paradigm, and then disseminates this information at speeds that depend on the bandwidth of the communication pathways.

James Gates on binary code-


Even 666 from the Biblical book of Revelation, translates back and forth from Greek to Arabic as 666 in Greek, and "In the name of Allah" in Arabic.



will9925452 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


(Romans 1:20)

For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without any excuse.


-Human life begins in a bright flash of light as a sperm meets an egg, scientists have shown for the first time, after capturing the astonishing ‘fireworks’ on film.


(2 Peter 3:5)

"But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water."

-The water that makes Earth a majestic blue marble was here from the time of our planet's birth, according to a new study of ancient meteorites, scientists report.

"The study shows that Earth's water most likely accreted at the same time as its beginning."

-Larger than Earth but smaller than Uranus, GJ1214b has a lot more water and a lot less solid material than our home planet. According to their research, this waterworld is entirely covered with an ocean. Even its atmosphere is a thick steam layer. Not just hazy, but a "dense atmosphere of water vapor."

"The Earth was able to form because of an abundance of hydrogen and oxygen."

(Genesis 1:2)

"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."


(Genesis 1:3)

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light."

(Genesis 1:4)

God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.

(Genesis 2:1)

Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

(Job 26:7)

"He spreads out the skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing."


"How the universe Began"-


Science confirms that the universe exists by a narrow set of laws. These laws control and determine the existence of the universe. Where did these laws come from, since not even time, space, or matter existed prior to the beginning of the universe?

Today, scientists confirm that the universe had a sudden beginning. After an eternity past, instantaneously all matter and energy that exists in the universe, came into being.


Proof of the faith it takes to accept Atheism?

Look at all of the atheists on the religion forum. Why? They tell me they are making sure the other side is covered. Yet they outnumber the theists on the religion forum by far. The Theists have more reason to offer THEIR side, as a matter of fact, a divine reason and command. So why are they so highly outnumbered. The Atheists are not convinced of Atheism. They are looking for affirmation of their unbelief.


will9925452 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by brontoraptor 4 months ago
You don't need claims to be an atheist, but all atheists have claims. I've been on here long enough to know some claims appear to be universal.
Posted by missmedic 5 months ago
You have said "Atheist claim" there are no claims needed to be an Atheist. The most common misunderstanding about atheism involves the definition. Many people insist that atheism is really the denial of the existence of God, but there are two errors here. First, it pretends that atheism is exclusively about their god, the god common to Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Second, it focuses on a narrow sub-set of atheism and atheists to the exclusion of all others. Standard dictionary definitions list "denial of God or gods" second; first comes "disbelief in god or Gods." Disbelief is not the same as denial, it's either the absence of belief or the presence of skepticism. And it's not a claim about anything.
Posted by CaptainScarlet 5 months ago
Yep that's right it takes more faith to comprehend that natural processes, operating in the natural world form complexity spontaneously. More faith than believing an unknowable thing in an unknowable realm used unkowable magical powers to create 100 billion galaxies each with a 100 billion stars so we could get here. I wish theists would actually have an original argument rather than argue from ignorance constantly.

If naturalism was true you would expect a vast universe, which is vastly old with a lot of repeated but failed natural chemistry experiments, where a few (maybe only one) threw up biological life. If theism were true you can make no real predictions because it is so vague and poorly defined, but you might not expect a universe where 99.999999999999999999999999....... etc% of it was hostile to life or where an all powerful designer felt the life he wanted to create should only be able to live in a universe with narrow life permitting values.

Most of the matter and energy in the universe is in black holes, does that make them the real purpose behind the design? When you look out and see order in the universe, what would a chaotic universe look like by comparison? Would a chaotic universe say be expanding away from itself at ever increasing speeds? Would it contain huge stars which blow up decimating them space around them for Billons of miles. Would it be filled with harmful radiation? Would it contain massive black holes crushing the fabric of the universe out of existence? We are programmed to see order, but the theist cherry picks what he thinks will make his point whilst ignoring anything else. The argument from design was shout after Humes seminal work, Philo. Why do theists keep banging on about it?
Posted by missmedic 5 months ago
A god requires an adequate description of what it is and what characteristics it has in order to determine either if there is a logical contradiction or if any testable implications hold true. Without a substantive explanation of just what this god is, how can there be a substantive claim that this god is? In order to reasonably claim that this god matters, the believer must have substantive information regarding its nature and characteristics; otherwise, there is no reason for anyone to care.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 4 months ago
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff many times, so conduct to Pro. Pro was also the only one who made an argument, so arguments to Pro by default.