The Instigator
GodSands
Pro (for)
Losing
14 Points
The Contender
Seeker
Con (against)
Winning
31 Points

Atheists strictly create their own false reality.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/3/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,837 times Debate No: 7666
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (29)
Votes (7)

 

GodSands

Pro

Atheists strictly design, mould and create their own false reality. From what though? What is a Atheist? Is a Atheist someone who just does not believe in God or Satan, or is it more? Where does the conclusion come from to suggest there is no God or Satan? It is just by understanding or listening to what others have to say on this topic? What scientists say and claim, what other individual lives say about God and Satan? Do Athiest gather up all the negitive things about humans lives induldge in, there by creating a reality from other human beings mistakes? What I am suggesting is that Atheists simply create their reality from two points, the negitives and the possitive sides of life, and create a reality from that.

God is all good, Satan is all evil, take both side of that and you are left with no God or Satan. Simple really.

May you, my Con friend begin.

Note:
Must be a Atheist please.
Seeker

Con

Atheists, myself included, do not create false reality. Rather atheists subtract one element from the traditional man's world view: God. I don't believe disagreeing with this concept suddenly makes someone a believer in a "false reality."

To answer your questions: An atheist is someone who chooses to not believe in God. This is a religious belief because the existence of God cannot be proved or disproved. Although religious beliefs such as Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, and Atheism may not believe in the popular notions of God or Satan, I don't believe that deems the followers of such religions to be delusional. They may have created an alternative theory, but not an alternative world.

Atheists derive their conclusions from many different sources; some from anger, some from grief, and others from long considerations about faith. Anyone who choses a religious belief has been influenced by what others say, although this does not mean they chose a faith on that alone. Life is more complicated than the negative and the positive and saying all atheists had considered life in such simple terms would not be true.

I'm an atheist, my friend, because I do not believe in the teachings of organized religion. It is not out of anger, sorrow, or frustration, but out of contemplation that i have chosen this type of philosophy. I know other atheists who have chosen their belief for the same reason. I hope my first submission to this site has been well-constructed and will be well-received, thank you for the opportunity to discuss such a deep issue.
Debate Round No. 1
GodSands

Pro

So you might say, well of course a Athiest alike all will say,
'No, my reality is false.' A Athiest chooses not to believe in God for what reason? I am only suggesting this to you, but would it not be more better for you individually to put your faith, life into the hands of a being which by defintion can save you from eternal death, suffering and pain? However you like you look at the world we all die as we are now. In metaphoric terms Atheists are walkling closer and closer to a cliff edge and they know it, yet they do nothing about it. By sinning they fast-forward it all by running to the cliff edge. I can truely say that Atheists treat death as an event within life, but they say it is not an event. Christian say death is a event within life but treat it as death as if it were not. By this you know exactly which one is more of a wiser chose to take. You treat life as if your are immortals. Yet you are not immortals.

Atheists make up their own reality because they have no solid ground on what they stand on. For they base them selves on scientific data, and because data is not fact bound their whole world veiw is wobbley. You are confuesd although you may not seem it. If I ask you,
'Give me the complete over all veiw of how all came to be in three steps" The Atheist would reply,
'There was nothing, then it exploded, and then nothing evolved' For a true Atheist would reply back like that.

Tell me where do you get your ideas from? Do you get them by just ignoring God, simlpy that is what you have done? That is the results you get by ignoring there is a God, thus a false reality. Not only that, but you make up your own reality by taking positive and negitive beliefs for the two sides of Christianity. For example, Jesus said, 'For who has ever hated a man, has alread commited murder in his heart.' You would not agree, yet you agree that muder as in taking a life is evil. I believe both are evil. Yet you believe only one is evil. It does not stop there, I bet that even murder as in if one took and killed you family, it would be righteous if you took and killed that man. For he deserves death. I would say that God will deal with that man.

In other terms, Christians look at the bigger wider picture where as you Atheists pick and prod and small indiviaul things. We simlpy say those things are not worth it, you say they are. We look at the bigger picture and clearly see the existence of God and Satan, where as you Atheists are too busy picking at the smaller things in life. Such as you try to find a big picture with in a small one. We Christians find small picture amoug one large one. Simply analogy, why is it wrong? So you makes and create you reality from these small insignificant things. Distractions alike, hatred, drunkenness and generally temptations blocking your way to true pleasure. True pleasure does not end in sickness or pain, from sexual related diseases, or hospital trips form being too drunk on a night out. True pleasure comes from something which one must indure, so that one may have eternal pleasure afterwards.

You design your realities because you take in good and evil at the same time. Where as I mentioned eariler that you will see murder and evil but not hatred as from the heart. Can you not see the conflict occuring between good and evil? Another example is, say you and your mates were going out one Saturday night, would you not agree to an exstent that drunkness can lead to stupidity, and once one is out of his face and attacks another. you will then draw the line. Once evilness have taken place. Why not stop being self minded and say,
'Lets not get drunk for we may go too far and become abusive to others' You trust your self but not the world you live in, yet you are apart of the world. Can you not see the circular reasoning? This is all based on have not God in your life. And there for having no overall enermy, to fight off all your little battles you have while living life. Instead you tackel them one by one, and every time one problem is worked out, another one comes along. Zoom out and see the wider picture, because all the evil in your life are your problems you have to fight.

Say you walked down the street and a man was attacked by four other men, it becomes your problem despite if you turn and say it is not. It is. For the guilt of walking away you remain as a problem, and that you will never get rid of. Tackel the problem by confronting those men, and risk the problem becomming worse for you. However it is easiler for a Christian to do this as he/she will have faith that the increaing problem will be delt with by God. You on the other hand will appear to be coward like and walk away. It is not always the case, but a none believer in God will charge at the unfair attack with anger or bitterness towards the attackers, where as a Christian would not. In some sense a Christian clears up worldy problems. You however chose to ignore that and create your false reality based upon your own wants and needs, conviences and liking of this world.

Reality is that God exists to individual who chose to take on every problem the world throws at them. We do not pick and choose, but accpet the world's problems by dealing with them, by giving them to God. That I can say you create you own reality since your select how your world will work around you.
Seeker

Con

Well, this has turned out to be more fun that i thought.

Starting off, I agree that everyone will one day die, but I don't believe sinning will expedite that process. If atheists are correct, that there is no God, then the sin of disbelief will make no difference. If you're saying that all atheists are sinners in terms of corruption or immorality, then i disagree completely. I've met many upright atheists who don't consider themselves immortals, but don't believe in heaven. I don't think that generalization holds true since many atheists argue mostly about behavior on this planet.

What scientific data are you referring to? If you're referring only to the big bang theory then you're mistaken; many atheists do not believe in that theory or do not know much about it. I personally haven't decided how the universe began, but i'm comfortable not knowing rather than assuming a supernatural being created it.

You're third paragraph is even harder to understand than the last because of the grammatical errors, but if you're saying atheists don't believe hating man is wrong, then i once again disagree and suggest you do not know many atheists. Many buddhists don't believe in a God yet they comprise one of the largest and peace-loving organizations in the world. I also agree with you that drunkenness doesn't mean pleasure in life, there are other things more valuable to someone, but why would an atheist be unable to enjoy these things?

I don't think calling all atheists selfish cowards adds to your argument. We could call each other names all day, but that won't accomplish anything. I believe what you're talking about depends on the situation, but an atheist once again wouldn't have a harder time doing what's right than a christian, it depends on the person.

Please try to limit the grammatical errors because i sometimes can barely understand your sentences. Nevertheless this has been a great argument so far and thanks for bringing this issue up.
Debate Round No. 2
GodSands

Pro

Sorry for my poor quality grammar.

Do you still agree that a Atheist is not creating a false reality? For wouldn't it make more sense if Christians were not since we claim to have a connection from an out side source, that being God. I have said many times that if we humans exist God must, for God is with out a doubt worthy of creating anything, what stop a god from existing if by definition that is what a god can do?

I don't think you understood what I was trying to make out in my last round, which was my fault. About Christians viewing the larger, wider picture and the Atheist trying to find large pictures among the small pictures. For an example, many Atheists try to discover the universes origins from the in side, ignoring the curtain event or concept of God's existence. And by doing so they are stubborn and attempt to picture a possible out come with out there being a god included. This is just like trying to find something larger within something smaller. Its simply impossible.

Atheists gather vibes from life, to create their own false reality. Like I have said. A Atheist sees hatred from the heart for a reason acceptable. Where as murder in physical form not acceptable within most cases. Jesus said, 'Who ever hates another man has already committed murder with in his heart' This is where you say they are totally different. I say, just like the Bible says they are the same thing. For all sin starts within the heart. --- Linking this to Atheists designing their own false reality, is that if you ask a Atheists who hates another person, 'Do you want to murder that person you hate' On most cases, when I ask this, in fact on all, they say, 'No I wouldn't want to murder anyone, even if I hated a person' By this Atheists never mean what they say when it comes to this topic.

You very simply gather both good and evil from Satan and God. Because God is all good and Satan is all evil, they will never blend, therefore you can not witness either God or Satan within your life. This is why Jesus said give up your sins. Relation back to my rubber band analogy where there is good and evil on either side and the Atheist is stretching the rubber band in the middle. You can not argue that, as there is either good or evil. Never a mix of both in one single event, as in a terrorist attack, that is plan evil. I am not saying that no good can not come from it, sure God turns evil into good all of the time. What I am saying is that there is neither good and evil at once within the same event. A terrorist attack is not good and evil at the same time. Where as a Atheist would say drunkenness is both, in theory, but it can not be explained. You can not explain an event, such as going out getting drunk or murder as a good and a bad thing at once. Only one or the other.

So lets pick on sex before marriage, you would say there is nothing wrong with sex before marriage or evil about it, in till one utterly violates and regrets having sex, once finding out that he/she has caught a transmitted disease, then he/she will regret it. Not in general sex before marriage but just that once. This is where you notes come undone. Why doesn't a Atheist just say I will not agree with sex before marriage, not because it is against God but because I have a chance of catching a transmitter disease? Or I will not have sex before marriage not because God says it is against Him, but because I could end up meeting someone which deserves the 100% of me? Aka the wife or the husband. Instead you would rather abandon your own self decency for unworthy pleasure. Yet in your false reality you will walk away gladly (if no sexual disease) and feel good about your self. Where as in reality you have gone and done the complete opposite. You shared time with another, not to please that person but to please your self off of that person. If each other cared for one another, there would be no sexual relations before marriage. The false reality kicks in, and you think that good and evil are the same thing, in one event. In till you clearly see both good or evil. Evil being sexual disease, good being pleasure. No good leads to evil. No evil leads to good. For if so they would both be the same thing.

You and many others, I say you are all creating false reality. Another example is that, everyone would want to be in heaven but not everyone believe in heaven. If you want to be in heaven and this life is the only chance you will have enabling that desire, why forfeit it by convincing your self there is no such place? Stop claiming that you live in a none false reality, by claiming there is no god. Consider this, that no good leads to evil and no evil leads to good. If the end result of something is evil is was always evil, if the end result id good it was always good. This I am talking about the very last result, not a sex change, and the transsexual thinks what he/she has done is good. Or the right thing to have done. That person lives now abundence against God and family. You by saying some things are good like drunkenness always end in evilness, fights, fall outs, death, sexual immortality list goes on. It never ends in good for it never was and never will be good.

Same with homosexuality, with out reproduction the very last result, although this may sound extreme, there being very little people left living on earth. It is still a reality and the fact the homosexuality tents to be a tough debate to crack, it is because the end evil result is so far out of hand. It would be very unlikely that such a event would take place. That being the world population only being homosexual. The Bible strictly remind people homosexuality is against God. Genital or Jew, Atheist or Christian. Same thing.

Here is a list of things a Atheist thinks is good but isn't.

Sex before marriage - end result - death - evil
Drunkenness - end result - death - evil
Homosexuality - end result - death in masses - evil
Abortion - end result - have you not looked into reproduction system? - evil (One out of millions and millions make it to the egg, then you destroy it, shameful)
Vanity - end result - abuse/death - its evil
While lies - end result - big lies - evil
White crime - end result - jail/stealing (down loading music illegally) - evil
Gambling - end result - bankruptcy/lack self control - evil
Hatred - end result - death - evil

The list goes on.

What I am trying to get across is that the things you think are normal/good/fun end in evil. If it ends in evil the whole thing is evil. Like I discussed that not one thing is both good and evil. You create you own realities up by deciding when it is evil, depending on how you feel.

You trust feeling more than fact. Shameful. I as a Christian understand end results of temptations, this is why I try to stay away from them full stop, just like the Bible tells one to do. Enspired by God who is all good, God doesn't seems to much of a false reality now. Does it? More like Atheism is the false reality.
Seeker

Con

First, I do not believe that God exists because the idea of a God contains the possibility for a God to create the universe. That sounds pretty illogical captain, but you or anyone else may believe what they want, just don't assume we have to do the same.

In terms of the larger picture, I think you're referencing scientific data that continues to prove claims from the bible and religious scholars to be false. If you suggest that we should believe in this "bigger picture" without any consideration of its logical flaws and inconsistencies then i would disagree and suggest that taking that placing that same blind trust into other situations would cause disaster.

I can't be sure what you're saying in the next paragraph. I don't believe Atheists would be murders without God and i don't believe that's hypocritical. People can decide to be moral without the thought of God because they are genuinely good people. That's just a different view on life.

If I knock a drunken man unconscious because he was going to shoot another man, is that event all good or all evil? If i listen to my ipod, have I done an all evil deed or an all good deed? I don't believe anything is completely one or the other, although some like your hypothetical terrorist attack can be very close to pure evil, while on the other hand the early american revolutionists against the British and Irish against the British used terrorist acts to free themselves. Many would argue their actions were virtuous to save themselves from oppression.

Atheists, Christians, and any other group of people have different ideas about sex before marriage. I don't think someone would regret premarital sex ONLY if they catch a disease. In fact I'm pretty sure someone would still get ticked off if they got a disease while consummating marriage.

I don't believe in faith out of fear. If your church cannot convince me of its principles because of their virtue then i certainly won't be turned onto their religion out of fear. I don't believe in heaven, so there will be no loss of heaven when i die because it didn't exist in the first place. I'm not sure what happens to us all honestly, but i don't assume to know the answer beforehand.

There are about 7 billion people in the world and less than 1% are homosexuals, and there have been homosexuals for all of our existence. Why is that such a threat? It's not a contagious disease and the children under the care of homosexuals are no more likely to be homosexual. I don't understand why you would oppose that and what this has to do with atheists creating their own false reality.

I'm not going to address a list of stereotypes.
Maybe you should be "enspired" more by the real atheists you may have met in real life rather than the imagined totally evil atheists you speak about. This has been a fun debate nevertheless and I thank you for this time.
Debate Round No. 3
29 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by grayron 8 years ago
grayron
Some people do accept the Big Bang Theory as an explanation as to why God does not exist. But a theory can disprove another theory.
Posted by GodSands 8 years ago
GodSands
I agree it does get more complex in curtain situations, however I said that the worst result is death in most cases. If no one posed to kill or going in the direction of death, all would be well. The terrorist blowing up a school or a cop shooting him down, this is bang on my aguement, that if we refer and act as there is actually a just and punishing God for thoughs you do evil. There would be no sin. However Jesus Christ has done his part now, there is little thiws world can now do. In fact there is nothing this world can do.

I use my brain emencly, that at times I have to take break from this site, in that I simply can not handle or think striaght at the questions and queries some people throw at me. God expects us to use 95% of our brain our selves, that as in common sense.

The Bible does not conceal all answers, like 'How should I look though the yellow pages effectively' The Bible does though consume all the answers you need to stand and fight through your life, to to be named victorous as a result. The Bible tells you all you need to know, not all one wants to know. However if you want to know something like, 'How do I handle couping with my ex after a violent break up' The Bible will answer that in part through out the scriptures, but it will not have a heading saying, 'Violence in ex couples do not inherit God's love' Or anything like that. But within stories through out the Bible it will display many helpful passagers where one who is in a hard time, can fall back on to the Bible for answers. When the world has failed you, Jesus/God and the Holy Bible are the only remedies you can rely on. For when all has failed you, there is hope in Jesus. That his part is complete, you just need to finish off your part.

Evil which affects day to day people just as sex before marriage drunkenness, blasphemy, murder, stealing, lying, cheating, envy, jealousy, fighting, boasting etc... will all end in death down the line at one point. Read Romans 1:28
Posted by benjaminfranklin 8 years ago
benjaminfranklin
well said sarsin
Posted by sarsin 8 years ago
sarsin
"So rape is good or evil. Murder is good or evil. All small things which many people think is normal is really evil. As it ends in evil. Do not begin or do anything that ends in evil, because you can not trust uour self, so you lack self control. There is no way of telling how far you may push something in that case."

Your arguments are way too simplistic. If a cop kills a terrorist before he can blow up a school, was that act good or evil? If a woman is forced to abort a baby due to complications that threaten her life, is that act good or evil? You don't live in a black and white world, and you are creating a false reality where the Bible has all the answers. I got news for you, the Bible DOESN'T have all the answers. God gave you a guidebook and a brain, and I swear way too many Christians forget about the brain part.
Posted by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
Pro's arguments were unique but his stance was flawed. Well done, Con.
Posted by benjaminfranklin 8 years ago
benjaminfranklin
Oh, and one other thing

Example: of a good action, one with good intentions, that turns evil:

The Holocaust.

Hitler wanted to exterminate Jews, for various reasons, most of them quite similar to the reasons many Christians want to exterminate homosexuals. So he had good intentions, as Christians do in hoping that gay people will one day be killed off, or cease to exist.
Posted by benjaminfranklin 8 years ago
benjaminfranklin
If you don't like how Atheists decide things on a case by case scenario, how can you explain your decision to be a Christian? Didn't you choose to be a Christian based on your feelings about it, and the way it seemed logical according to your other experiences in life?
Posted by Brewmaster 8 years ago
Brewmaster
"There is a being out there which is unlimted in power. A being which has power over all things, a being most like to refer as God."

A being with the power to eat vast quantities of hot sauce, a being who always gets free guac when ordering mexican food, a being who can figure out how to program my VCR (yes I still have one). This is a being most like to refer [to] as God (or my neighbor Larry).

Also on the paradox thing, my favorite take on that is "If God created a taco so spicy that even he could not eat it, Chuck Norris would eat it with Fire Sauce from taco bell."
Posted by Molokoplus 8 years ago
Molokoplus
and besides it is impossible for an omnipotent being to exist, because of the old "create a stone too heavy to lift" paradox.
Posted by Molokoplus 8 years ago
Molokoplus
haha yeah i know i was kinda kidding. but universe beginning = ultimate potential for good. End= death of all living things, therefore bad. but to be honest you definition of good and evil is ridiculous. you say war is evil because the end result is death, yet you never refute the fact that some wars and death can prevent the deaths of many more people, therefor emaking it good. or that work, which you claim is good, can lead to greed, which you define as bad. every event or action contains within the potential for good and evil.
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