The Instigator
Mr.Oxley
Con (against)
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The Contender
mjb3
Pro (for)
Tied
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Athenian democracy

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/30/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 379 times Debate No: 64223
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
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Mr.Oxley

Con

Athenian Democracy is definitely not a democracy based on the definition of a true democracy.
mjb3

Pro

I believe that the Athenian government is a democracy. It favors the many instead of the few rather than 1 main dictator in a dictatorship. Important citizens get to vote for what they think has to change in the government just like we do in the United States.
Debate Round No. 1
Mr.Oxley

Con

Many is a relative term. Maybe to you 10-12% of the population would be considered many. 10-12% is the percentage of the population that could vote in an Athenian democracy. That sounds more like a few to me, and Athens sounds more like an oligarchy.
mjb3

Pro

10-12 % is a total of 28,828 people in the Athenian population. This is made up of smart military men who fight for their country, who will vote what is right for your country. Would you want maniacs voting wrong things to screw up your economy?
Debate Round No. 2
Mr.Oxley

Con

That is a very elitist attitude. You believe that only people who have the means to a better education deserve the right to vote. Those people who sweat and work hard everyday in fields to feed families of people they will never ever meet, those people don't deserve the right to vote. Is this your idea of a perfect world where only the rich elite make the decisions while the working class is basically turned into slaves?
mjb3

Pro

I have heard the term slaves before sometime in the past. Oh wait... Our country was called a democracy when we had slaves during the Revolutionary War. Latin American military dictatorships are called democracies. South Vietnam with a single candidate for President during the Vietnam War was called a democracy.
Debate Round No. 3
Mr.Oxley

Con

So what you are telling me is that just because something is called a democracy, that does not mean that it actually is a democracy? So the fact that Athenians referred to themselves as a democracy, that doesn't necessarily mean they were a democracy? It seems to me you are coming around to my side of this argument.
mjb3

Pro

mjb3 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Mr.Oxley

Con

Mr.Oxley forfeited this round.
mjb3

Pro

mjb3 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by cheyennebodie 2 years ago
cheyennebodie
Democracy is not far off from communism. It ultimately leads to all the corrupt isms we see in the world today. A republic is the mose prosperous and successful form of government. Rule of law. Not just any law. Law of a moral society.One where one person is not regarded over another. The poor are not regarded less in the law than the rich, and the rich are not regarded any less than the poor. They are equal under the law. Under a moral republic, you do not ever have government force slavery of any kind. It is slavery for the poor to have government force those better off to pay their bills. We now have many in the plantations ( housing projects ) sitting back while those who produce wealth are forced by government to send them checks their labor did not produce.How can you look at that than anything but enslaving the producer class to pay the bills of the freeloaders of another man's labor.

America started out as a Republic. It has slowly evolved into a democracy, or mob rule,then it is now a socialist democracy, and that in turn will develop into a full blown communist state.There are no democrats who are slowing this transformation down, and far too few republicans.We are heading off the cliff of economic disaster just as all the other communist states have done.The democrats have been way too successful in bribing the American people with freebies. We now have a freeloader society.Half the people now are freeloading off the other half. That kills incentive to produce for both halves.The freeloader becomes content to just sit back and collect his check. And the producer class is disincentivised to pay other peoples bills they are not really responsible for.
Posted by Poisonchocolate 2 years ago
Poisonchocolate
Hello, Mr. Oxley! As you wish, here is my opinion (I am copying and pasting from my other comment):

So, to start of with, we need to define democracy. The Oxford English Dictionary uses this definition, which is, with slight variations, quite similar to most other definitions: "Government by the people; esp. a system of government in which all the people of a state or polity (or, esp. formerly, a subset of them meeting particular conditions) are involved in making decisions about its affairs, typically by voting to elect representatives to a parliament or similar assembly". They key words here are "or, esp. formerly, a subset of them meeting particular conditions".

For the Athenians, their particular conditions were to be a male citizen who had completed military training. Slaves, freed slaves, children, women, and foreigners were not allowed to vote. Of this small eligible group, the vast majority participated in the government, resulting in, overall, a rate of 10-20% of all Athenians voting. Compared to in America, where ~60% of people are eligible to vote, and ~60% of them actually do vote (resulting in about 40% of Americans voting), this number is not very far off.

So, while their voting population is smaller than the US, it still complies with the definition for democracy, and was a great improvement over most other governments at the time. In fact, some people would argue that it is more democratic than our present-day republic, in which people do not vote on actual laws, they only elect people who make the laws. Athens had a direct democracy, in which all eligible people voted for everything. Simply having more restrictions on who is allowed to vote does not make a society undemocratic.
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