The Instigator
brooke.curto
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Shy.Guy
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Athens vs. Sparta (athens lets just say is pro, and Sparta is con)

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/20/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 49,543 times Debate No: 20522
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (0)

 

brooke.curto

Pro

Look...Athens is better than Sparta for a few reasons...1. Athens did not kill babies just because they looked "weak". Who is to say that they are nothing and that they don't have potential to become the next Plato and such? It sounds to me like the nazis who wanted a pure race...not so great... 2. Athens cared more about education. Where there any Spartans who bothered to write their history down...NO! It was Plutarch who did, and he wasn't even a Spartan! And they actually knew how to read and write, as opposed to the Spartans who taught their citizens P.E., stealing, and killing techniques. Ideas are better than armies, knowledge is power!
My third reason is because Athens actually attempted to have an open market like the ones we have in the U.S. today! Look, Spartans told their citizens that they weren't allowed to trade... talk about terrible economic growth, and isolationism! Well yeah...I would write more but it's like 12 a.m. and I'm a freshman in high school...so I'm tired... At least I hope to make my point across.
Shy.Guy

Con

I thank Brooke for starting this debate.

Rebuttals

Babies that are too weak and unhealthy were left to die. <1>. However, the baby is unhealthy. Thus, wouldn't it be better if we kill it off before it spreads diseases? Or use up more resources? Just like the phrase "Survival of the fittest," only the strongest may live. Babies should be killed because they are sick and unhealthy. It takes less than 7 days to be cured from sickness. Babies live for 10 days, and then are killed if they are not cured. Therefore, babies would be an invalid argument. Sparta would be better because killing off the weak and sick would be better than leaving the sick to affect others.

Education. We now go to the phrase of: Street-smart vs. book-smart. Spartans = street-smart, and Athens = book-smart. Which is better: Survival or Knowing How Things Work? What is the use of intellect, when you cannot truly use it in times of crisis? Spartans have endured hardships and pain. Athenians? Nope. They think, while Spartans act. Did the Incas have a writing system? No. Were they very successful when it comes to military or uses of farmland? Yes. Thus, being literate would not make you a better civilization. Ideas are not better than armies, because the idea could not be applied. Knowledge is NOT power. Would this smart guy in your class be the leader of the school? No. Being street-smart though, would help you. Being able to steal and become very athletic is a helpful tool in life. Who is better, a bully, or the victim? Obviously bully. That's why you see people bullied every day.

Markets? Who needs them? Spartans had enough food to survive. As long as a civilization can feed and nourish itself, it would not be considered better or worse. If the Spartans had enough food, the civilization would still be successful. Rather than having a surplus and trading it for jewelry and luxury items. Simplicity vs. Luxury.

Contentions

All in all, Spartans are much better than the Athens. In battle, Spartans are much more powerful. Even if Spartans aren't smart enough to develop art, they still had enough brain power to defeat the Athenians. They burned fields of crops. They stopped all waterways. They destroyed numerous fleets. They defeated the Athenians!

<1> http://library.thinkquest.org...

I await my opponents response.
Debate Round No. 1
brooke.curto

Pro

Ok , so on to your 1st contention...
1. How can we tell if these babies are weak and have desieses?!?! All Sparta wanted was strong LOOKING babies !!!! Like today, Stephen hawking was considered a "defect " but look at all he has done; exuberance!!!! As I stated before you have no idea what these people an become! Ok, so killing babies is morally correct you say? You might argue about abortion, but year babies were alive! It's like murdering a live person!!! And murder is not right as well! Athens didn't have to kill people in order to be remembered !

On to your other negated point education... Now you ate implying that Athens was only book smart ...but this is simply not true. They used their intellect to help them create one of the best navys of the ancient world at the time. Also, what Spartans are rememebered today?!?! None ! Many Athenians are remembered example : Plato, Socates, thucydides, Perklys, and many more! Any famous Spartan philosophers of politicians... No, they were so focused on phisical education that they didn't even want to write any of their history down! Also, didn't ideas CREATE armies, yes! Ideas are the foundation to everything we have today, and Athens had the first true democracy that we use today! Did Sparta give us any of that , no! Think about Platos allegory of a cave... You are tying to find the light (truth. No one has reached the light yet..) and your obstacle to getting out of the cave into the light is the puppet master and the shadows casting false light. Everyone thus far has lost to the puppet master ... The puppet master holds the knowledge to control everyone's thoughts! So yes knowledge is power! With knowledge you can control everyone's thoughts . Think about Stalin or Hitler, yes, they used their knowledge as power... And Sparta doesn't have any of this knowledge . Book smart was not all of Athens knowledge either... Plato used his philosophy to create "street smarts " in a sense that he could go around with his smarts and squeeze his way out of things by using his genius techniques.

On your third point you state that we dont need markets... Well...I'm sorry but you are utterly and sadly mistaken my friend. If all the markets tanked right now we would all be in major difficulty!!!! Rome fell because if it's economic downfall, and so did most of the ancient words and empires INCLUDING Sparta! When you have stealing as your only sorce of income...it gets a little complicated... What I'd Sparta DIDN'T conquer the land...then they would be seriously dead! If you didn't know Sparta did not get along "just fine" the had myriads of starvations within their empire and many died from mellownurishment ... Yeah! When you are training all day and you come home to little food you become weak and sick and eventually you die. And Sparta DID have all the gold and treasures , but the government said that no one was allowed to touch it! They weren't allowed to use it it go near it! Now that is saying something. But yes, Sparta's downfall was their economic problems.

Now thank you for debating with me my fellow debater! I hope you can refute this very soon, we are going along in this debate quite swimmingly!
Shy.Guy

Con

Shy.Guy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
brooke.curto

Pro

Well to finalize why Athens was better than Sparta.

Ok, so do we honestly care about or remember Sparta other than the movie 300? Is the only think we care about them "THIS IS SPARTA!!"? No, I don't think we honestly care or heard about them other than that horribly inaccurate movie! Athens we remember for the Hollywood views, but for their exuberance in all three of my contentions and arguments I made. So Athens was better than Sparta, I wish I had some last speech to work with so I would explain why Athens is still better. But just think... Would we have our democracy without Athens, would we have philosophy we have today without Athens, would we have America if it wasn't for Athens...

Ponder these questions and you will see that Athens was better than Sparta

Thank you Shy.Guy for debating for this first debate on this website!
Shy.Guy

Con

Shy.Guy forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by lol101 2 years ago
lol101
Persia helped.
Posted by brooke.curto 5 years ago
brooke.curto
In the battle of the brains Athens won
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
There was a nice war in Greece which Sparta won....
Posted by brooke.curto 5 years ago
brooke.curto
well did they beat them with their brains or their army? Sparta was no match for Athens brains. Also how do we define "beating" or "winning".
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
You do know the Spartans beat the Athenians right?
No votes have been placed for this debate.