The Instigator
Nur-Ab-Sal
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
Mr
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Atlantis existed.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Nur-Ab-Sal
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/4/2012 Category: Society
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,179 times Debate No: 24564
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)

 

Nur-Ab-Sal

Pro

Resolution

The ancient civilization of Atlantis existed at some point in time.

Clarifications

I will be arguing Pro, for the existence of the Lost Kingdom, and Con will be arguing that the city never existed. Round 1 is for Con's acceptance, and I would additionally ask for no semantic play. There will be four rounds, with three days to post an argument, and 8000 characters maximum. An external link for sources is acceptable, but not required.

I will offer a definition:

Definition

Atlantis: the civilization Plato was referring to in the Timaeus and Critias

Good luck to Con.
Mr

Con

I'm sorry am i seeing this right this Atlantis you speak of is blasphemy, im sure is your prryou haven't been there yourself and took pictures of this place, where is your proof, pluto is a witness no one is exactly sure what he was talking
Debate Round No. 1
Nur-Ab-Sal

Pro

I would first like to thank my opponent, Mr, for accepting this debate.

Introduction

Ever since Plato described Atlantis in his famous dialogues, there have been hundreds of theories and searches for the Lost City, encompassing even strange ideas such as the Bermuda Triangle. [1] However, in recent years, new theories have been formed, and I will be arguing the most convincing one, that in reality, the story of Atlantis was really the story of the Minoan civilization, with a few recognizable errors that can be understood through the blunders of historiography. My argument will be in the form of the following syllogism:

1. The Minoan civilization existed.

2. Atlantis was the Minoan civilization.

3. Therefore, Atlantis existed.

In the following sections, I will argue each of my premises and then justify the conclusion, and also show how the inconstancies are really just errors in historiography.

The Minoan civilization existed.

This first premise will be the easiest to accept by even the most skeptical of readers. The Minoan civilization is widely documented. [2] The Minoans appeared on Crete around 2000 BC and developed a stable civilization with a culture, religion, and wealth, culminating in the construction of large palaces. [3] One of the most interesting things about the civilization is that they were a seafaring people; they constructed a navy and traded with civilizations around the Mediterranean. [4] However, study of this Bronze Age culture is hindered by the fact that we cannot read their early language, Linear A; [5] the Minoans kept hundreds of documents such as inventories, but they may never be deciphered.

Many theories exist on how these ancient Cretans were destroyed, including the link between the disappearance of the Minoans and the eruption of a volcano on the nearby Thera, an eruption that not only would have devastated the neighboring Crete but would “likely have generated an even larger tsunami and pyroclastic flows that traveled much farther over the surface of the sea.” [6] Now that parallels between the Minoans and Atlanteans are already visible, I will continue to the next premise.

Atlantis was the Minoan civilization.

Let us first begin with Plato’s account of the Atlanteans. Atlantis was “a naval power located at the Pillars of Hercules (today's Strait of Gibraltar) that had successfully conquered large swaths of Western Europe. After its defeat, Atlantis then sunk into the sea, never to be seen or heard from again.” [7]

Although it may seem as if I am stretching the truth here, the striking resemblance in Atlantis to the Minoans of Crete is startling. Both Atlantis according to Plato and the Minoans had a prominent navy, useful for trading or conquering, were both located in the Mediterranean or the area around (this is where the historiographical errors may be present), and both were destroyed by a cataclysmic natural event, a tsunami, or in the case of the Minoans, a volcano and subsequent tsunami.

Their correlation could be a mere coincidence. I am not, however, arguing that Atlantis was a separate civilization, I am merely saying that the story of the Minoans on Crete, who the Greeks were well aware of, [8] was recounted by Plato as the story of Atlantis. While it may be difficult to wrap your mind around an entire continent sinking into the Ocean, still undiscovered despite advances in underwater exploration, it isn’t that much of a stretch to say that the story was really just a retelling of the Minoan story, a civilization already well-documented.

Therefore, Atlantis existed.

As I have said before, I am not arguing that Atlantis was a separate continent in the Atlantic, or even underwater. When Plato says Atlantis was “afterward sunk by an earthquake,” [9] he was referring to the volcano-caused tsunamis that destroyed Thera and Crete. When Plato says Atlantis “conveyed the fruits of the earth in ships,” [9] he was referring to the vast Minoan fleet that traded with the Mediterranean.

I will now explain the many references to errors in historiography that I have mentioned. Plato mentions several attributes that are inconsistent with the Minoans. For example, Plato states that Atlantis had an “extent greater than that of Libya and Asia” [9] and was located in the “Pillars of Heracles.” [9] While my opponent may attempt to use these contradictions against my case, please note that Plato describes Atlantis based on “what was said by the priests, and brought hither by Solon,” [9] an attestation to the continuous passage of the story before Plato’s historic discussion. As we all know, errors will almost certainly arise as stories are passed along generations; only the most prominent features of the story (such as the rise, trade, and destruction of Atlantis) remained truthful. But in the end, however, I will argue that Atlantis was based in fact and not fiction, and this fact was the story of the great Minoan civilization.

References

1. Clark, John Owen Edward. 100 Maps: The Science, Art And Politics Of Cartography Throughout History. p. 220.

2. Castleden, Rodney. Minoans: Life in Bronze Age Crete. p. 1.

3. Chaniotis, Angelos. Ancient Crete. p. 26.

4. Rogers, John J. W. Earth Science and Human History. p. 70.

5. Ancient Greek Thesaurus. “Minoans Writing Linear A-B.” Web. Accessed 29 May 2012.

6. McLeish, Todd. “Santorini eruption much larger than originally believed.” University of Rhode Island. Web. Accessed 29 May 2012.

7. Abrams, Dennis. Atlantis.

8. Taylor, Martin. “Possible connection between the cultures of Ancient Sumer and Minoan Crete.” Web. Accessed 29 May 2012.

9. Plato. Timaeus.

Mr

Con

First off I would like to say is that before Plato this Atlantis you speak of is never mentioned anywhere else.
also you haven't shown me any evidence showing that the tales of Atlantis were handed down through his generation before his age. "There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that Atlantis represented any real place at any time. Where the story contains descriptions or events that resemble historic happenings, it only does so to the degree that any piece of fiction relies on experiences of reality. All of the evidence points to the story being one of Plato's noble lies: useful fictions used to make a point, not to refer to the past." my source sates.

"According to Popper, he was the first to glorify propaganda lies, whose invention he described in forceful verses eulogizing the wise and cunning man who fabricated religion . . .(1962, p. 142)."

I believe the Atlantis you speak is more about Athens than a sunken civilization as evident in my source at which it states "The tale places Athens history deep into the past, making the Athenians a people sprung from the soil, and portrays its citizens in a heroic battle against the menacing power of Atlantean foes. In the Timaeus, Critias answers Socrates request to accurately describe my city [Athens] fighting a war worthy of her":"

"Plato's dialogues expound his philosophy and have some peculiar features. One of these features is the use of extraordinary tales asserted as truth in order to vividly express his ideas. " as stated in my source
Plato would also use totally fabricated stories to present to the youth as true history as mentioned

"[Republic 376] In this education, you would include stories, would you not? These are of two kinds, true stories and fiction. Our education must use both and start with fiction. . . . And the first step, as you know, is always what matters most, particularly when we are dealing with those who are young and tender. That is the time when they are easily moulded and when any impression we choose to make leaves a permanent mark (Desmond Lee translation)."

lastly the definition of Atlantis at which mentions it was linked to the island of Thera instead complimentary to dictionary.com I have found is
At�lan�tis;[at-lan-tis]
noun
a legendary island, first mentioned by Plato, said to have existed in the Atlantic Ocean west of Gibraltar and to have sunk beneath the sea, but linked by some modern archaeologists with the island of Thera, the surviving remnant of a much larger island destroyed by a volcanic eruption c1500 b.c.
Also your theory of the Minoan story is being retold is highly unlikely according to my reasonings i mentioned earlier.

Until a large submerged island is found in the Atlantic ocean with ruins of an ancient seafaring civilization that existed 11,000 years ago I can comfortably assume that Atlantis had never existed.

My sources
http://dictionary.reference.com...
http://www.csicop.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Nur-Ab-Sal

Pro

I would like to begin by thanking Mr for his continuation of the debate.

Introduction

My opponent has provided several arguments to refute my case, but they do not tie together and are somewhat contradictory. For instance, my opponent begins by stating Atlantis is completely fictional, then argues that it was based on the Greek city of Athens, and finally uses a definition which links it to Thera, the island I mentioned in my argument as well. His arguments can be described as (1) Plato’s account was a philosophical tale rather than history, (2) Plato’s account was based in the story of Athens rather than Crete, (3) Plato’s account was based in Thera rather than Crete, and finally (4) what seems to be a one-sentence rebuttal to my entire case. I will rebut each accordingly.

Philosophy

My opponent states that “before Plato this Atlantis you speak of is never mentioned anywhere else.” I do not believe my opponent read my argument. I was arguing that Atlantis was the name Plato gave to the actual historic Minoan civilization. If I can prove that Plato was referring to the Minoans, which I believe I did, then the fact that the name Atlantis is never mentioned before is perfectly compatible with my case. The definition my opponent agreed to states that we are discussing the civilization Plato was referring to. The Platonist primacy of the name Atlantis, a name Plato may have very well fabricated, is therefore extraneous because it does not refute the historical authenticity of the civilization he was referring to.

My opponent then quotes, “‘Where the story contains descriptions or events that resemble historic happenings, it only does so to the degree that any piece of fiction relies on experiences of reality.’” This could not be more wrong. As I quoted in my opening argument, Plato states he is conveying actual history: “[…] for all the important part of what I have to tell is dependent on her favor, and if I can recollect and recite enough of what was said by the priests, and brought hither by Solon, I doubt not that I shall satisfy the requirements of this theatre.” [1] Plato’s tone was not philosophical, but was genuine in relaying historical fact. Additionally, one historian notes that “In the case of Atlantis, Plato believed no doubt that it was based on fact and that it came, as he said, from ancient Egyptian records.” [2] There is simply no reason to believe Plato was speaking allegorically, and every reason to believe he was speaking historically.

Athens

My opponent declares that the story of Atlantis was created as a means to glorify Athens rather than convey history. He does not provide a single bit of evidence for this claim. The probability of the Minoans as the civilization he was referring to, substantiated by my opening argument, negates this point. Furthermore, this contention is contradictory with my opponent’s first contention, that Atlantis was not historically based at all, but a philosophical parable, as he is now arguing that Atlantis was historically based, but this time in a fashion that would venerate Athens. He then quotes The Republic, continuing his earlier claim of Atlantis being entirely fictional, but this again is reversed by Plato’s genuine belief in the historical validity of Atlantis.

Thera

If anything, my opponent’s final contention is an argument for my case. He states, “lastly the definition of Atlantis at which mentions it was linked to the island of Thera instead.”While I disagree with his need to provide an additional definition of the same term he agreed with in round 1, my opponent argues that through this definition it is linked with Thera. I completely agree. Thera is a vital part of the Minoan-Atlantean correlation, as the eruption of a Theran volcano is what caused the cataclysmic tsunamis [3] so similar to Plato’s description of the Atlantean disaster. Additionally, the Minoans are of further relevance to Thera, as the ancient Cretans established a naval base on Thera at around 1700 BC. [4]

My opponent’s assertion that the Atlantean story is instead linked to Thera is not only contradictory to both the philosophical contention and the Athens contention, it also assists my case in support of the Minoan civilization as a basis for Plato’s account of Atlantis.

In Defense of the Atlantean-Minoan correlation

My opponent finally states that “Also your theory of the Minoan story is being retold is highly unlikely according to my reasonings i mentioned earlier.” Because I have successfully negated every single one of his contradictory contentions, this statement is similarly unsound. The Minoan historical basis theory is simply more probable than a philosophical tale or an Athenian historical basis, and my opponent’s link to Thera only supports my argument further.

Because Plato was exonymically describing the Minoan civilization as Atlantis, and because the Minoan civilization did in fact exist, the necessary conclusion is that Atlantis existed. The resolution is affirmed.

References

1. Plato. Timaeus.

2. Godwin, Joscelyn. Atlantis and the Cyles of Time. p. 30.

3. McLeish, Todd. “Santorini eruption much larger than originally believed.” University of Rhode Island. Web. Accessed 29 May 2012.

4. “The Cycladic Civilization.” The Hellenic Foundation. Web. Accessed 4 July 2012.

Mr

Con

I begin my debate with stating much respect to Nur-Ab-Sal
but this is a topic he utmost is not correct about or have enough evidence to prove that my opponent himself is.

After reading, i still am clueless upon the evidence of showing that the tales of Atlantis were handed down through his generation before his age. As I stated and still left unanswered.

Also my opponent states "There is simply no reason to believe Plato was speaking allegorically, and every reason to believe he was speaking historically." I can easily negate the idea with a statement from my source.

" In a discussion of Utopian societies, Plato claims that Egyptian priests told Solon about Atlantis. Plato was not describing a real place any more than his allegory of the cave describes a real cave. The purpose of Atlantis is to express a moral message in a discussion of ideal societies, a favorite theme of his. The fact that nobody in Greece for 9,000 years had mentioned a battle between Athens and Atlantis should serve as a clue that Plato was not talking about a real place or battle. Nevertheless, Plato is often cited as the primary source for the reality of a place on earth called Atlantis."
Plato's purpose was not to pass on stories, but instead to create stories to teach moral lessons to others. "...What can we expect next from these lost scholars? A search for the grave of Cecrops, the serpent-tailed first king of Athens? The discovery of the true trident of Poseidon?"
as the stories were told. And to prove it I have further evidence below.
according to the writings of the historian Strabo, Plato's student Aristotle remarked that Atlantis was simply created by Plato to illustrate a point.

A writing translated from Plato's writings states that the location from Egypt to so called Atlantis and describes the distance as being 250 miles across which is completely false. If the fall of the Minoans is really the story of Atlantis then how did he get the location wrong?

"... The date given to the destruction of Atlantis, which is around 9,600BC. For there to have been a race that technologically advanced at that particular time would re-write our known history of our own species, because human civilization as we would think of it has only been around since about 5000BC."
Plato also talks of domesticated cattle as well, and the earliest evidence researchers have found of domesticated cattle is 6,000BC.
"The architecture that Plato speaks of is far more advanced than what researchers believe would have been in use at that time, as more sophisticated buildings didn't start to show up until around 5,000BC at the very earliest. In fact there is almost no archaeological evidence that could support the claim that a society such as that described by Plato would have existed at the time stated."
Plato's own writings contradict themselves.
simply stating if the time and location are wrong it is highly probable Plato was not citing Atlantis historically

"Until a large submerged island is found in the Atlantic ocean with ruins of an ancient seafaring civilization that existed 11,000 years ago I can comfortably assume that Atlantis had never existed." As I stated.

Also when I mentioned Athens I needed to include that if Atlantis had ever existed it might have been Athens also I didn't propose it to be a main idea and shouldn't be counted against me, thank you.

http://unxplained-factor.com...
http://www.skepdic.com...
http://www.unmuseum.org...
Debate Round No. 3
Nur-Ab-Sal

Pro

Once again, I would like to thank Mr for his contribution to the debate.

Introduction

My opponent once again presents an unorganized argument, but an understanding of the structure of his last argument will facilitate my rebuttal. His arguments and rebuttals can be enumerated as follows: (1) the story of Atlantis was not passed to Plato, (2) a continuation of the philosophical tone argument, (3) Strabo and Aristotle dismissed the idea of Atlantis, (4) error in the Atlantean-Minoan correlation theory, and (5) various other statements concerning the previous round. I will once again rebut each.

Story passage

My opponent states “i still am clueless upon the evidence of showing that the tales of Atlantis were handed down through his generation before his age.” Besides my now repetitive statement that Plato blatantly cites his source of information before relaying the story, the Greek historian Plutarch writes of Solon in his biographical work The Lives of the Noble Grecians and Romans, “His first voyage was for Egypt, and he lived, as he himself says, ‘Near Nilus' mouth, by fair Canopus' shore,’ and spent some time in study with Psenophis of Heliopolis, and Sonchis the Saite, the most learned of all the priests; from whom, as Plato says, getting knowledge of the Atlantic story, he put it into a poem, and proposed to bring it to the knowledge of the Greeks.” [1]

Additionally, historians agree that the story’s passage is historically verifiable: “Many other academics have researched the veracity of Plato’s detailed account and confirmed that Solon, Dropides and the two Critias lived when described, so the transmission of information is possible. There is ample additional evidence that authenticates Plato’s sources. Clement of Alexandria […] reported that Solon, while he was in Egypt, spoke with Psonchis at Sais, as well as Psenophilis at Heliopolis.” [2]

Philosophy

It seems that my opponent still rejects the notion that Plato sincerely believed in the historicity of Atlantis. My opponent states, “Plato's purpose was not to pass on stories, but instead to create stories to teach moral lessons to others.” This is simply untrue within the context of the Atlantis story. Plato sincerely believed Solon’s account: “Plato was adamant the story was absolutely true,” [3] as he “believed that the story of Atlantis is about something that actually happened,” and had Critias emphasize twice that the story is accurate. [4]

That is not to say Solon or Plato did not exaggerate anything, as the noted Greek historian Herodotus did, [5] especially when teaching a moral lesson. Once again, Plato was speaking with a historical tone, not an allegorical tone. He provided a reference for the story as a way to substantiate its historical authenticitiy. This argument simply does not stand when faced with fact.

Strabo and Aristotle

This argument is completely erroneous: my opponent claims, “according to the writings of the historian Strabo, Plato's student Aristotle remarked that Atlantis was simply created by Plato to illustrate a point. Strabo, the noted Greek geographer my opponent is referencing, actually believed in Atlantis. In his work Geography, Strabo states, He did well, too, in citing the opinion of Plato, that the tradition concerning the Island of Atlantis might be received as something more than a mere fiction, it having been related by Solon on the authority of the Egyptian priests, that this island, almost as large as a continent, was formerly in existence, although now it had disappeared.[6] This is Strabo’s only mentioning of Atlantis.

As for Aristotle, the quote my opponent is referring to, where Aristotle supposedly remarks that Plato invented the legend, is actually a “conflation” of multiple passages in Strabo’s work, and does not even mention Atlantis. [7] Aristotle’s true opinion on Atlantis is unknown and indeterminate. This argument is completely negated, as Strabo supports my position and Aritotle supports neither.

Error

I already addressed this particular argument in my opening case. My opponent states, “If the fall of the Minoans is really the story of Atlantis then how did he get the location wrong?” and later, “simply stating if the time and location are wrong it is highly probable Plato was not citing Atlantis historically.” Before I begin, I would like to once again show how the fact that Plato even gave a specific size, date, and other details, should negate the philosophical tone point even further. Plato was clearly discussing Atlantis historically and not allegorically.

As I already mentioned, Greek historians exaggerated everything. For instance, the most famous Greek historian, Herodotus, exaggerated the reigns of the kings of Media, [4] increased the perimeter of Babylonian walls from 17 to 56 miles, [8] and multiplied the number of warships in a Greek fleet from 400 to 7200. [9] Plato himself exaggerated casualties in a Persian battle [10] and statistics of Athenian democracy. [11] Because of the obvious precedent Greek historians set in relaying history, it is probable that Plato would do the same in communicating the history of the Minoans: placing Crete in a distant era and sea, increasing its size and wealth, and romanticizing its destruction as total obliteration, when in fact Crete was a somewhat ancient and modest island just south of Greece, whose Minoan civilization was destroyed by a volcano-caused tsunami.

Once again, we are discussing the civilization Plato was referring to, so taking Plato’s exaggerated historical statistics as truth is somewhat dishonest. Plato was referring to the Minoans, but exaggerated its qualities to embellish his story.

Athens and Thera

My opponent states finally, “[…] when I mentioned Athens I needed to include that if Atlantis had ever existed it might have been Athens also I didn't propose it to be a main idea and shouldn't be counted against me.” In short, he dropped the Athens point, as well as the Theran point. Take this as whatever you wish, there is nothing for me to rebut if the argument is not continued.

References

1. Plutarch. The Lives of the Noble Grcians and Romans. “Solon.”

2. Andrews, Shirley. Atlantis. p. 247.

3. Alford, Alan. The Atlantis Secret.

4. Boston University. Arion, volume 5. p. 135.

5. Royal Asiatic Society. Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, volume 17. p. 50.

6. Strabo. Geography. Str. 2.3.6.

7. Colavito, Jason. “Strabo and Aristotle on Atlantis: What Alternative Historians Don't Know.” Accessed 5 July 2012.

8. Miller, Steven. The New American Commentary. p. 140.

9. Van Antwerp Fine, John. The Ancient Greeks: A Critical History. pp. 303 – 304

10. Plato. The Menexenus of Plato. p. 265.

11. Kiss, Artur. Marxism and Democracy. p. 19.

Mr

Con

To start things off quickly i have to respect my opponents thoughts with haste then begin.

My opponent stated earlier that
"When Plato says Atlantis was �€œafterward sunk by an earthquake,�€�
he then makes his own personal assumption on what Plato was talking about and states
" he was referring to the volcano-caused tsunamis that destroyed Thera and Crete "
which by simple logic is almost impossible to know, not to mention he's changed the castrophe of Atlantis.

"On the one hand, Plato was adamant that the island had sunk in the Atlantic Ocean, and equally adamant that the story was absolutely true. And yet, on the other hand, modern scientists have mapped the floor of the Atlantic Ocean, using echo sounders, �€˜Geosat�€™ radar and multibeam sonar, and found no trace whatsoever of any sunken island."
my source states

This Plato my opponent speaks so highly over lets put it to fact, he is wrong with the geography, and for my opponent to assume he was talking about some other civilization in some other place is nonsense. If Plato had the location wrong in the first place how can we assume he was talking about some other civilization?

"... The date given to the destruction of Atlantis, which is around 9,600BC. For there to have been a race that technologically advanced at that particular time would re-write our known history of our own species, because human civilization as we would think of it has only been around since about 5000BC."
Plato also talks of domesticated cattle as well, and the earliest evidence researchers have found of domesticated cattle is 6,000BC.

i believe ruled out the Minoan being a most likely inhabitable location of "Atlantis" if not minoan then most damaging to my opponents proposed existence of Atlantis is that there is no room for a landmass in what we know of the geological history of the Atlantic Ocean.

my source states and i include once again because my opponent keeps denying the possibility.
"In a discussion of Utopian societies, Plato claims that Egyptian priests told Solon about Atlantis. Plato was not describing a real place any more than his allegory of the cave describes a real cave. The purpose of Atlantis is to express a moral message in a discussion of ideal societies, a favorite theme of his. The fact that nobody in Greece for 9,000 years had mentioned a battle between Athens and Atlantis should serve as a clue that Plato was not talking about a real place or battle. Plato's purpose was not to pass on stories, but instead to create stories to teach moral lessons to others. ".

"Until a large submerged island is found in the Atlantic ocean with ruins of an ancient seafaring civilization that existed 11,000 years ago I can comfortably assume that Atlantis had never existed." As I stated.

per��ceive�€‚ �€‚[per-seev] Show IPA
verb (used with object), per��ceived, per��ceiv��ing
to become aware of, know, or identify by means of the senses: I perceived an object looming through the mist.

if something is not seen and proved so for all means it didn't exist.

Thank you.

My sources
http://www.eridu.co.uk...
http://dictionary.reference.com...
http://unxplained-factor.com......
http://www.skepdic.com......
http://www.unmuseum.org......
Debate Round No. 4
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Nur-Ab-Sal 4 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
I really got this idea from the video game Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, and looked into it more after I read Menzies' book. I don't have any more really good resources, unfortunately. I love your username though.
Posted by Slendy 4 years ago
Slendy
First off, I'm overjoyed that you read "The Lost Empire of Atlantis" too. Of all the research I've put into the Atlantis project, this seems to have the most credibility. Nur-Ab-Sal, do you have any other good sources specifically about the Minoan-Atlantean correlation? With any luck, our generation might be able to track it down to a concrete location.
~Good luck to us truth seekers,
Slendy
Posted by Nur-Ab-Sal 4 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
That's a pretty cool theory. Feel free to argue this topic later if you'd like. Atlantis is one of my favorite subjects.
Posted by elvroin_vonn_trazem 4 years ago
elvroin_vonn_trazem
It is good that Pro has specified a particular rationale for showing that Atlantis existed. This means that Pro can't use any other rationale. It also means that if someone posts a wildly alternate rationale in the Comments, it shouldn't affect the Debate.

So, have you heard about the "Coral Castle" in Florida?
htt.....ww.rense.com/general39/coral.htm
Like the Pyramids of Egypt, it is built of multi-ton blocks of stone.
Unlike the Pyramids, the Coral Castle was built by just one man.
He even disassembled the thing at one point and moved it to another location.

He also claimed that "how he did it" involved rediscovering certain secrets known to the Atlanteans, which were passed down to the Egyptians, who used them to build the Pyramids.

So, does that mean Atlantis actually existed? Because the Coral Castle certainly does exist!
Posted by Nur-Ab-Sal 4 years ago
Nur-Ab-Sal
In my past two debates, I argued exactly that, from the Minoans.

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

I think you and I may have read the same book, "The Lost Empire of Atlantis," by Gavin Menzies. It's where I first learned about the Minoan-Atlantean correlation.
Posted by brian_eggleston 4 years ago
brian_eggleston
A good topic, I like it. There is certainly evidence for a lost civilisation of ancient times in the destruction of the Minoan kingdom on the island of Crete as the result of an earthquake and tsunami, and this is widely thought to be the inspiration for Plato's 'Atlantis' but other theories exist.

For example, there is evidence of trade between the ancient Egyptians and Central America which Atlantis, wherever it may have been, may have been an intermediary.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by MouthWash 4 years ago
MouthWash
Nur-Ab-SalMrTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro clearly won. Con's arguments contradicted each other, he failed to address the point about the story of Atlantis being based on historical fact, and he makes a bizarre claim that Atlantis was Athens, which would win Pro the debate. His grammar and sources weren't that great either.
Vote Placed by AlwaysMoreThanYou 4 years ago
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Nur-Ab-SalMrTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro showed that Atlantis referred to a historical civilization that actually existed, therefore it existed. Con didn't really counter that much.