The Instigator
Atriox
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
AveryGaleson
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Atriox vs Master Chief

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/4/2017 Category: Games
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 566 times Debate No: 103415
Debate Rounds (5)
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Atriox

Pro

I am open for anyone to debate against me. I am taking the side of the Banished Brute Warlord leader Atriox. Please put you're first argument as you're acceptance
AveryGaleson

Con

I'd like to start off by explaining how Atriox's victory over Red Team is not an accurate comparison to how a battle with Chief would go. Red Team as of 2559 is composed of Jerome-092, Douglas-042, Alice-130. A thing all three of these Spartans have in common is that they were all washouts of the original program due to their bodies rejecting their augmentations. All three later had to be retrained and placed in Red Team. Red Team isn't exactly composed of the highest-grade Spartan-IIs. Since Red Team was in cryo-sleep since 2531, they have not received the same level of combat experience over the years as other Spartan-IIs, such as the Master Chief have. It is also important to note that Red Team in Halo Wars 2 still uses the Mark IV Spartan armor, which is outdated and not as good as Chief's more modern Mark VI Spartan armor.

Chief had far more experience than all of Red Team combined. Since he wasn't stuck in cryo-sleep for nearly 30 years, Chief has been able to fight in many battles and has received much more tactical and combat experience than Red Team has. For example, while alone, he was able to fight through entire hundreds, perhaps even thousands of Covenant soldiers to kill the Prophet of Regret, who was guarded by the most elite Sangheili honor guards in the covenant, with only his fists. While alone with barely any communication with other humans, Chief was also able to fight through thousands of flood forms, Covenant soldiers and forerunner sentinels on Installation 04. This is something all 3 members of Red Team wouldn't be capable of, as seen in Halo Wars and Halo Wars 2 gameplay, since they do not yet have the same level of experience as the Chief. Chief also has the highest lethality ratings of all Spartan IIs. I believe that it is safe to say that Chief could mop the floor with Red Team, similar to how Atriox did in Halo Wars 2.

Chief has successfully killed at least dozen Brute Chieftans in Halo 3. What makes Atriox any different than those chieftans?

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Debate Round No. 1
Atriox

Pro

I apologize for this inconvenience, but I am having issues with using the PC version and signing in with that platform. I will sadly not be able to post my evidence of my claims until I can accurately resolve it. Seeing as how Spartan Jerome was still able to defeat dozens of elites and Brutes as he did after his encounter with atriox shows he is still lethal. Though master chief actually seemed to struggle against Spartan Locke in the cutscene fight of halo 5, Spartan Locke even broke master chiefs visor. And yet again, this is to the hands of an inferior Spartan IV. What makes Atriox different from brute warlords is that he is extremely intelligent, AND strong. Most brutes we have ever encountered have always been strong, but not very smart. If the brutes had the intelligence and tactical strategies of what even an elite had, they would be much more deadly. Atrioxs armor is consisted even of part mjolnir. Atriox too has even killed a Spartan according to the Phoenix logs of halo wars 2. Though master chief might be the most lethal Spartan II, he is still neither the strongest, smartest, or the fastest. This is according to the Halo Fall Of Reach book. Atrioxs intellectual capabilities has had him able to research an abundance of incredible advancements to his armor mixed with his strength. You have stated that master chief has taken on thousands of covenant and flood on his own. Though The covenant had two targets during the war with the humans. They almost got the humans. But Atriox, they didn't come close. The whole entire covenant could not stop him at the HEIGHT of their empire. To go even further, Master chief on multiple occasions has nearly died to things that are not exactly the most expectant to somebody like him. To give you an example, In the book of "The Flood" if it were not for Cortana, Master chief would have actually died to a single flood infection form. The form basically charged at chief and grabbed a hold of his neck, and punching a hole into his undersuit. He had only survived because of Cortana being able to short circuit the suit and electrocute and kill the form. We could talk about chief being superior to 3 veteran Spartan IIs, but you still have to keep in mind that Atriox demolished those 3 with no effort almost whatsoever. He could easily have killed them all. And if Atriox gave 100% effort Master Chief would be on the ground before he even realizes it. Yet Atriox would likely not even have to
AveryGaleson

Con

If Atriox is very intelligent, then why is it that he could not successfully use his CAS-class Assault Carrier to eliminate the outdated, outgunned AND unshielded UNSC Spirit of Fire? Why did he not order the Assault Carrier to engage the Spirit of Fire as soon as it entered the Ark system? He had multiple chances to wipe out the Spirit of Fire and its crew, but instead he chose not to and he lost the most powerful ship in his fleet.

Perhaps the AI Isabelle's depiction of Atriox is not the most reliable. She may not be the most stable AI in the first place. As seen in Halo Wars 2, she displays the same kinds of emotions Cortana did during her rampancy.

Yes, Master Chief could have died to a single flood infection form, but he has also killed many, many other flood infection forms throughout the Halo series without anything similar happening. It is important to note that Atriox did catch Red Team by surprise. I am certain that if they had gone against each other under different circumstances, Red Team would definitely put up a better fight against Atriox. Now let's say Master Chief and Atriox are going up against each other in a battlefield with no interference from allied forces. Chief would easily have the advantage of speed due to the fact that he is smaller and weighs less than Atriox, who is at least 9 feet tall and weighs at least 3,000 pounds in his armor. Assuming Chief is armed with his standard weapons like the Battle Rifle and Assault rifle, he would also have a range advantage because Atriox uses a melee weapon.

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Debate Round No. 2
Atriox

Pro

Usually your claim and question on why Atriox did not actually destroy the spirit of fire is mainly only due to the developer's choice of narrative progression. There were MANY times in the halo universe where many ships, and characters could easily have been killed. One example being Master Chief. Even though it makes sense due to the action taking place that he actually would, or could have died, it would not be beneficial for the progression of the story. There are many times where heroes, and enemies could have simply killed each other with a few headshots if not one, but even though it makes sense, it would not make the story narrative go anywhere, and would be an overall bad and bland, and quick way to kill off a character. I can put this into account when talking about why Atriox did not eliminate the Spirit Of Fire. In reality, yes, Atriox would actually have done that if it were the case of his actual mindset and not the creators. But if Atriox just destroyed the ship like that, what story would there be? things like this are entirely only for narrative progression. I will give you one analogy not halo related. If the Batman vs Superman fight were to actually happen, Superman could easily have either froze, beamed, or punched and killed batman with one blow. But this did not happen only due to narrative purposes. Back to Atriox. You have to remember what his gravity mace can do. He was able to pull red team towards him in a magnetic way. I'm sure this is a way so that chief cannot have the tactical range advantage on him. If he were not to even pull all of chief towards him, he could pull and take his weapons away with this tactic, leaving chief no choice but to charge at Atriox in some sort of way. Atriox has the entire floor ground to him. He could easily either smash the ground to throw chief to the ground, or he could entirely pull chief to him, and slam him to the other side of the fighting arena, having Atriox almost entirely defeating him already due to his sheer strength, and position he is in. Speed is not the most strong suit of brutes, but they still can be quite fast in some cases. If you look at how the brutes charge at their enemies with full force and rage, they are actually quite fast. But overall, speed is not everything. During the great schism in High Charity in Halo 2, the elites, and the brutes, (excluding the other species) fought and battled against one another. The thought always was that speed and smartness would always have you win, but in the case of the great schism, the brutes were mainly able to win nearly every encounter with the elites. Especially in a close quarters environment, speed and smartness is not always the key to success. This is why the brutes were easily able to win most encounters. Their sheer willpower and tenacity could not be matched by the Elites. This goes the same for Atriox and Master Chief. Especially in a close quarters environment, Atriox has many key advantages that easily deem superior as opposed to Chief. Overall, Atriox's sheer strength, intelligence, and experience in the enemies tactic gives him every advantage one would so ever need to win in a fight.
AveryGaleson

Con

While being pulled in by Atriox's gravity mace, he could easily grab ahold of his armor and get behind him to plant a frag or plasma grenade into Atriox's his back, possibly killing them both or just Atriox. Chief could also use the plasma grenade suicide tactic he used in the Halo 3 Believe trailer if he is caught by Atriox in close range. The grenade would likely kill both of them and would end in a tie.

Since we don't know the exact range of Gravity mace's pull effect, Chief could make some distance between him and Atriox and take Atriox out from long range. All he would need to do is take down his shields and land a few headshots and the fight would be over. A well placed frag grenade followed by a few headshot bursts from a Battle Rifle from a longer range would also be enough to take Atriox down.

It is important to note that the enraged Brutes that ran quickly in Halo 2 were very lightly armored. However, Atriox has a massive suit of armor that could almost double his weight. At medium range, it is quite likely that Chief would recognize the threat at close and medium ranges and he would quickly make some distance to fire at Atriox at a longer range.

Chief has the advantages of speed and range in a fight, which are two very crucial advantages in a one on one fight. If Atriox cannot even get within the range of Chief for his weapons to do any real damage, his strength, intelligence and experience do not matter.
Debate Round No. 3
Atriox

Pro

Yet i would still have to disagree with this. I can still argue about long ranged tactics for Atriox to have the advantage, but the fairest way to show true power is not through long ranged tactics. Its through a very close fist fight. Let's even take all of the weapons out of play here. In a close quarters fight with nowhere to run, chief is outmatched in strength. Speed is not of the essence in close quarter fighting, giving Atriox the huge advantage. Once again, the fairest way to compare two individuals is a fist fight. but if we want to talk long range still, yes. We don't know the true range of the gravity mace, as that is yet to be explained in detail. but what we do know is that is was able to pull a Spartan in from fair range for a hammer. You said an easy few headshots could kill Atriox. Brutes have been known to survive quite an extensive amount of headshots and survive. But i would have to say it would only take one hit from Atriox to have chief defeated due to his pure strength and armor enhancements. I will say once again. The best way to compare two individuals is through a fist fight in close quarters, which no doubt Atriox would come out victorious. If you were also to take the armor out of both of these individuals, Atriox would still reign supreme. We saw how easy and effortlessly Atriox broke Douglas's arm in Halo Wars 2. It does not matter if it is inferior armor, as it is still spartan armor, and how effortlessly Atriox broke his arm and helmet. I'm sure it would be no challenge at all for Atriox to do the same to Master Chief. In conclusion, giving both sides a fair starting point in a true test of pure strength without weapons, Atriox is unmatched
AveryGaleson

Con

I don't think you are giving Master Chief enough credit in close quarters combat. Chief is capable of destroying a tank with his fists in 3-5 seconds by jumping onto it and punching it until it blows up. This is something that even the members of Red Team are not capable of doing so quickly, as seen in Halo Wars and Halo Wars 2, it takes them almost 20 seconds to simply hijack, not even destroy a vehicle. So it would make sense that Chief could easily do what Atriox did to Douglas's arm and helmet. Atriox might be able to land a few blows on Chief, but Chief could easily do some serious damage to Atriox since he is faster and could dodge a few of his hits.

With weapons on an open battlefield, Chief certainly has the upper hand. While it the Brutes in Halo 2 do require many headshots to be put down, this is not the case for the Brutes in Halo: Reach, Halo 3 and Halo 3: ODST. In these three games that came out after Halo 2, Brutes can easily be taken out with only one headshot once their head armor/power armor is disabled. Since these games came out at a later date, this retcons the amount of headshots brutes are able to take before dying.

While with weapons on an open battlefield, Chief could certainly win in medium and long range engagements. In close quarters combat with no weapons, Chief and Atriox appear to be more closely matched than it seems.
Debate Round No. 4
Atriox

Pro

What you're comparing is a first person shooter in-game things to a Real Time Strategy game. You have to remember the only reason it takes red team to hijack longer is because of balancing purposes. In the fps games, it is different due to multiplayer balancing. Comparing these two are not accurate, as they are very different in how they play because they are totally different genres. You talked about chief being able to punch and destroy a tank in a few hits. It actually takes much more hits for any spartan including chief to that. In reality, more than 10. And with Atriox's superior strength, he could make that less punches for himself. Now if we still want to talk about long-medium range, to make this fair, we should give Atriox a form of gun then, as it is not fair to give one a weapon, and another, mainly just a melee weapon, which is why i stated that the fairest way for any sort of true fight is through a fist fight. I'm sorry, but i am actually giving chief the credit he deserves on his scale, which is strong, but inferior in every single way to strength. You have to remember that Atriox's suit is compromised of ODST and even Spartan armor, which is likely to have shielding components which is mixed and combined with his knowledge on his enemies tactics. About you're headshots claim on Halo 2 as opposed to halo 3 and above, i'm sure the banished brutes would take even more headshots to take down, and overall body shots due to their full armor suiting in halo wars 2, which is produced on nothing more than heavy-duty steel and metal. Let me play you're long to mid-range game now, as i apologize, but close range fair plain field combat easily goes to Atriox without a doubt. Let's give Atriox a simple plasma pistol. As i'm sure brutes were trained to use more than just a gravity hammer. One charge and hit at chief, and his shields are down. Atriox could either keep shooting his plasma pistol, as i'm sure chief would not challenge a heavily armored brute warlord with shields down, or he could charge at the Chief, and pull him closer with his gravity mace if chief tries to run away. Overall, i feel both me and you had a well-put debate, but ultimately, it is up to the people's votes. Hopefully their votes are not decided on personal preference and nostalgia, but instead of the debate we put up
AveryGaleson

Con

Considering the fact that the debate is about a character from a first person shooter game fighting a character from a Real Time Strategy game, I think it is only fair to compare things from each game.

I decided to go ahead and test your statement about it taking more than 10 hits for any Spartan to destroy a tank. On Halo: Reach, where you play as the Spartan IIIs, which are inferior to the Spartan IIs in almost every way, it takes 6 punches to destroy a Covenant Wraith or UNSC Scorpion. If you punch the tanks as fast as possible, it takes 3 seconds or less to destroy them. This means that just any Spartan equipped with the MJOLNER armor can destroy a fully armored tank in 3 seconds or less. And this is with the outdated Mark V Spartan armor. The Master Chief currently uses Mark VI Spartan armor, which is much more advanced than the previous models. So, according to Halo Wars and Halo Wars 2 gameplay, Red Team is significantly weaker than most more modern UNSC Spartans and their armor is much less powerful.

Now if Atriox had a plasma pistol in a fight against Chief, there is no way he could win. There is almost no way a charged plasma pistol shot would hit Chief, especially at medium or long ranges, due to the speed of charged plasma pistol bolts.
Realistically, the plasma pistol would only be effective at close ranges or close medium ranges.

This was a fun debate. I do hope that that their votes are not biased as well.
Debate Round No. 5
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