The Instigator
Finalfan
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Greg4586
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

Authority

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Greg4586
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/4/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 478 times Debate No: 78403
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

Finalfan

Con

I would like to use this opportunity to illuminate an important misstep in the progression and stability of, well I would say society, but I have a much broader image. Global respect and preservation should be at the heart of my conviction. My responsibility in this debate is not so much a burden of proof but a step in a different direction. A solution to avoid said misstep! My opponent must clarify the necessity and importance of authority. Defending its place in the well being of all who must live under such confines! Round one is for acceptance only! I will not use any arguments in this round and my opponent must submit to the same. Otherwise be penalized with forfeiture. This is to prevent my opponent from leading this debate away from the premise I would like to discuss!

This is the definition of Authority I would like to address.

Authority:
the power to determine, adjudicate, or otherwise settle issues or disputes; jurisdiction; the right to control, command, or determine.

a power or right delegated or given

a person or body of persons in whom authority is vested, as a governmental agency
Greg4586

Pro

Let's do this my man. I accept. Good luck
Debate Round No. 1
Finalfan

Con

Greg good to see you! This should be an interesting discussion. I want to make it clear why I am tackling this issue. First off. I'm well aware that my problem with authority may seem like a personal issue. It may appear that I am just rebelling.. In a sense that is true. I want to make it clear why I feel that is justified!

Authority. A nasty word if you ask me. To me it means assumed power. It means entitlement instead of integrity. It means the consistent corruption of power. Nothing scares me more than an authority demanding my respect. Did you notice that learning history just meant understanding the atrocities done by authorities.. Hitler. Stalin. The catholic church. abusive fathers. corrupt cops politicians judges and lawmakers! That is what authority means to me!

Now I'm going to keep this short so my opponent can soak in the direction I'm hoping for. I will however offer up a solution in this round. Leadership, Hero's, Martyr's, perpetual Revolution. All of us take back this world from "authority"

Do you think we can do something with this? I know you stand on the same side as me with a lot of issues.. Think you can defend authority? Maybe I am just a stubborn jackass that wont line up like a good citizen lol
Greg4586

Pro

Good to see you too. Now I'm pumped for this debate so let's do this, and yeah I think we can definitely make a great debate out of this. Now let's begin. Good luck my friend.

Someone having authority is someone who has control and power. Someone who sits at the top and manages everything. You will hear people complaining about people at the top, cops, dictators, leaders and the list goes on. I'm not gonna deny that the people in authority cause issues, that would be a lie.

But imagine a world where we rebel and overthrow authority. Riots in the streets destroying homes and businesses. Peoples hopes and dreams of a peaceful life will be torn to shreds in the rebellion. Resistance of authority will only cause the authority to become more aggressive and violent in a desperate effort to remain in control. Millions, if not billions will die. Ever try to fight against the government rolling tanks down your street?

Now let's say that after years of fighting the dream will come true and authority will be destroyed. Civilizations will be in ruins. The homes families and children have lived in their whole lives, destroyed. Times of peace will just be a sad story of a non existent life. The survivors of war will be left salvaging for scraps so they can survive, but let's look at the bright side we will be free. But was it really worth it? I think not.

In a world where no one is in control I promise you people will band together to seize control. Whether they are benevolent, charismatic leaders or malevolent, violent gang leaders that rule by fear they will all try to seize control because they will become hungry for power. Gangs will fight and no one will be safe when the streets are absorbed in the violence. In a world with no authority and no cops the world will be run by gangs and drug lords fighting for nothing, but their own selfish greed.

Is that a world you want to live in? Because I know it's not a world I want to live in. So then there's the question, how do we avoid living in a world like that. Well here's what you do: You put up with authority. You may hate them with your whole heart, but whether you like it or not you need them. Because they stay at the top and keep everyone in check. By keeping the rebellions down they keep the peace, and that is why we need authority. I want to live in a peaceful world where we can fall in love, have children, and be happy without constant threat of danger, and because of that I believe our society needs authority so we can live in a world like that.

You say we can replace authority with leaders, heroes and martyrs. Well I wish we could, but the leaders that want to do someone good will always be overthrown by those who have no ethics, because they will stop at nothing to seize power.

Sure we should do our best to be leaders and heroes, but we should not rebel against authority and try to"take back this world from "authority"".

I rest my case, good luck.
Debate Round No. 2
Finalfan

Con

I cannot accept your resolution. I imagine that's important, seeing how this is a debate and all. What you propose is that authority is necessary to keep the peace. You however conceited to your knowledge of authorities corruption and lack of ethics. This is a house of cards. The glue is an illusion that you cannot do anything about it! You have to accept it. That is the fundamental relationship between us and the people we ALLOW have power! Where is the carrot? We are very familiar with the stick:

1. Inflation increases 600% while minimum wage increases by 30%
2. Health care system and Education systems are neglected
3. Welfare increases while people who work feel slighted.
4. Corporations take over every facet of society.
5. Disintegration of the Middle Class!

That last one really hurts the whole idea of a class system if you ask me. We continue to allow the upper class to flourish while greatly increasing the lower classes population! That is what you get when you allow "Authority" to LEAD us! It is poisonous.. Do not expect your safety to last long..

Do you know how to prosper as a nation? Everyone work there asses of at pointless jobs? Or a leader points us in a direction that does not become stagnant and easily exploited! Shame on all of us.. especially the majority of us watch as they eat cake... Promising that one day we may have a taste while laughing at us and buying up low income housing to put up high end condos! The police. The justice system. Politicians!! Pointless without leaders! Most of what happens under the guise of capitalism and free market is akin to fraud and a scam on the Billions of us who blindly take it!
Honestly we could go on for the rest of our lives and point out the obvious need for 4 Billion people to rebel. This is global. Its even ancient! It has always been this way! Time to stop Rome's from falling and a new dark age from spreading!

So why is it important for a new "Authority" to take charge? For the well being of everyone. Not just a privileged few. America is not even the worst offender. Russia can eat a bag of taints! Anyways! The idea is that we are all confused! We are always afraid of something even in our "safe" lives. That fear is what's painted in the sky.. Its the wound left unhealed and the shadows left un checked! It is all of our responsibilities! Not just a select few of power hungry idiots that are leading us off a cliff!
Greg4586

Pro

"I cannot accept your resolution" I'm a little confused here because the only resolution proposed here is your resolution. I think you might be proposing that we take this debate in a different direction, but I was kinda down to have a debate about rebellion and a lawless world. So I propose we find a middle ground where we can talk about both authority in our society and authority throughout the world's history.

Let me begin by rebutting your points.

"You however conceited to your knowledge of authorities corruption and lack of ethics." That is correct, I concede that when there is power there is corruption. However, I argue that we need this authority to keep the peace, and we will always have corruption even if we abolish authority.

"That is the fundamental relationship between us and the people we ALLOW have power! Where is the carrot? We are very familiar with the stick:" Well if I have one thing to say is that you're damn good with these analogies.

"1. Inflation increases 600% while minimum wage increases by 30%" These numbers seem pretty off to me and I would really like a source with this, but I'll rebut this anyways. One common misunderstanding people have about the minimum wage is that it's what people are meant to live on. However, what many of them do not know is that a minimum wage job is not meant to be a career that people live off. It's sort of like the job some poor college student gets to have experience in the future while he tries to slowly pay off his student loans.

So my point is while the minimum wage is low it's meant to be nothing but a starting job.

"2. Health care system and Education systems are neglected" May I remind you that the only reason we have health care and education is because of authority that advanced civilization.

Also while many issues come up with health care and education progress is being made towards making healthcare universal and affordable and making education available for everyone. While I can understand the frustration someone would have, but you can't just blame everything wrong with the world on authority.

"3. Welfare increases while people who work feel slighted." Ahh welfare, a very delicate issue. On one hand we shouldn't just leave the unsuccessful and their families to starve, on the other hand we don't want to allow lazy people to be a drain on society. So let's look at the issue, when it comes down to it the only people you can really blame is the people who abuse welfare. You can not really blame the authority for this.

"4. Corporations take over every facet of society." This is a perfect example of not having enough authority over corporations. Corporations controlling the world is a serious issue, for many of them serve no cause other than greed and are vacant of morals. So how do we stop this? Authority. We need regulations to control the corporation's power. This again is not something you can blame on authority and is instead a reason why we need authority.

"5. Disintegration of the Middle Class!" So what I believe Con is referring to is the government using the middle class to support the whole system, for example the middle class works while they are give support to the lower class and impoverished. However Con forgets that this burden is shared throughout the entire class system.

"Do you know how to prosper as a nation? Everyone work there asses of at pointless job" So I have a question for you: What's the alternative to this? Would you prefer no one works and runs around doing whatever the hell they want while society erodes around them? People work for a reason. They work to keep the economy flowing and without that we wouldn't have the luxuries we have today, you know like cheap food, medicine, air conditioning, plumbing etc.

So let's look at how you put it. We spend our lives working to make a livable wage. You call this process pointless. Well obviously working isn't going to be the highlight of our lives, so what is? Even with having a job you can socialize, party, chill and live. Having a job isn't stopping you from living.

By having a job you are given the ability to live while having enough time to give yourself a reason to live, and besides how do that old quote go? "Work at a job you love and never work a day in your life"

" Shame on all of us.. especially the majority of us watch as they eat cake... Promising that one day we may have a taste" Maybe the problem here is that people are striving for the wrong things. Instead of lusting after what we don't have we need to work with what we have to make ourselves happy. Isn't that the point of life anyways? You know once your 5 feet under it's not gonna matter how much money you had, or how nice your house was. Instead what's going to matter is how happy you were when you lived and how good your run was.

And authority gives us the opportunity to have a good run and enjoy our lives. Sure it causes some problems, but that's just something we have to deal with. The good of authority by far outweighs the bad. Authority gives us a way to live without constant fear of death. Authority gives us a chance to do what we love, and better find someone to love in peace. And isn't that really what matters when it comes down to it. Authority gives us peace and a good life and that's a good enough reason to keep and appreciate it.

"The police. The justice system. Politicians!! Pointless without leaders!" Well let me break some news to you. There's a lot of corrupt police, judges and politicians, but there's a lot of heroes in law enforcement that truly care about keeping the streets safe. There's a lot of judges that care about bringing justice to the world. Lastly there's a lot of politicians that have a vision of a better world and that's what they are trying to reach. We have leaders and we have heroes, but we have villains too and that's inevitable. There's nothing that can be done to change that.

" point out the obvious need for 4 Billion people to rebel. " This will result in nothing, but pointless death. Throughout all of history whenever oppression is overthrown more oppression takes it place.

There is no perfect system, and the one we have is good enough because it's as good as it's gonna get.

"Its even ancient! It has always been this way!" You're right it always has been this way, and it always will be this way. These systems all come from human nature and no matter what we do human nature can not and will not change.

" We are always afraid of something even in our "safe" lives. That fear is what's painted in the sky.. Its the wound left unhealed and the shadows left un checked! It is all of our responsibilities! " That's true, we are all naturally afraid, jealous and envious. Why? We're scared and we need to learn to live our lives while leaving the fear behind in the dust, because if we spend our whole lives worshiping and catering to that fear are we really living at all?

Fear has motivated a lot of our actions throughout history, rebellion being one of them. The rebellion you propose itself is rooted in fear and rage towards authority. With that being the force driving a rebellion it is doomed to fail and cause history to repeat itself. Until you can leave your fear behind you your ideas are doomed to fail.

" Not just a select few of power hungry idiots that are leading us off a cliff!" Maybe it's not just the 1% that's driving us to our destruction, maybe it's all humans. If left unchecked humans engage in self destructive behavior deeply rooted in fear. Maybe all humans are the "Power hungry idiots that are leading us off a cliff". Why? Because we're scared and authority is here to protect us from our self destructive behavior and to stop us from running off the cliff.

We need authority so we can save society and more importantly ourselves.
Debate Round No. 3
Finalfan

Con

Finalfan forfeited this round.
Greg4586

Pro

Unfortunately my opponent has forfeited this round. Please extend all of my arguments and I hope he returns to debate our last round.
Debate Round No. 4
Finalfan

Con

Finalfan forfeited this round.
Greg4586

Pro

My Opponent has unfortunetly forfeited his final round and conceded that I won the debate in the comments.

Extend all my arguments

Please vote pro
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Finalfan 1 year ago
Finalfan
I appreciate your understanding! You da man Greg!!
Posted by Greg4586 1 year ago
Greg4586
Hey, it's alright man. If you wanna give a debate like this again I'm down just hit me up.
Posted by Finalfan 1 year ago
Finalfan
Hey man I have to throw this.. I'm sorry this is rude.. You put that effort and worked on a solid argument! Clearly by my lack of research and facts I was only ranting and did not find stable ground for what seems like an obvious solution! You win man.. I will Find better ground and try again when I can commit to the debate!!! Truly sorry!
Posted by Greg4586 1 year ago
Greg4586
No problem man, I was just down for a good debate.
Posted by Finalfan 1 year ago
Finalfan
I know you agree with me on this.. but respect for taking the opposing side ;)
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
FinalfanGreg4586Tied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Debate conceded in the comments.