The Instigator
Jevinigh
Pro (for)
Winning
20 Points
The Contender
jamonster
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Automation has made the existing market system untenable.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Jevinigh
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/9/2014 Category: Technology
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 662 times Debate No: 48739
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (4)

 

Jevinigh

Pro


Premise of the argument is to address the Labor Lump Fallacy and show that in our current time the rate of automation has out paces the number of jobs created or displaced by automation and further that this makes the modern market system as we know it obsolete and unmanagable. My opponent will argue to the Opposite that the current Market system will remain Viable for the foreseeable future.

The rounds will be structured as follows.

Round 1: Acceptance & Introduction.
Round 2: Opening Arguments ( no rebuttals)
Round 3: Rebuttals And question to the Opponent
Round 4: Counter rebuttal and Question answers.
Round 5: Closing argument.
jamonster

Con

I don't really like your rules, so I'm going to say what I want, when I want. Automation makes everything run faster, so things can be built faster. Like the boat Carpathia, many other boats were built by automation.
Debate Round No. 1
Jevinigh

Pro


The point was whether or not the market system is still viable in the face of rapidly expanding technology, expanding in both sophistication and becomes considerably cheaper at the same time. A car factory is an excellent example, The bulk of tasks are completed by machine. (Ex. ) Though Humans are still employed to perform some tasks in the factory, they are not actually required for those tasks. They can be done like most other jobs in the assembly line-better and faster by a machine yet Automotive companies maintain workers largely for the sake of maintaining workers. In recent years Automation has made its way in large scale into Shipping and processing centers. Kiva systems now power Amazon delivery centers, cutting required human labor to a fraction.
the residual human labor is not absolutely required, but is simply easier for a human todo. How ever, The Labor lump fallacy contents that these jobs are not actually being destroyed in our economy, only displaced. How ever this very weak logical grounds for this.

In truth, only so many programmers are required and the factories that assemble these robots are entirely or nearly entirely automated as well. hence the contention " some one has to make the robots" hits a wall. The labor force is shrinking, especially labour force that involves any tasks that are inherently repetitive and laborious. ( ex. http://www.huffingtonpost.com... ) But Jobs behind the counter of fast food restaurants are already largely automated and a attendant behind the counter these days does a truly minimal amount of work... which again is not actually physically required.

As we go, we run into the pioneering end of Robotics, not only are they becoming cheaper and easier to afford and program. ( Hello, Baxter. http://www.rethinkrobotics.com... ) But they are becoming more and more sophisticated and autonomous. We have come along way form the ways when automated assembly meant that every movement of the machine had to be precisely programmed, machines these days are becoming intuitive by comparison. So what is left for Humans to really do?

Mining Perhaps? Nope- http://www.reuters.com...
Surely we need cashiers and such? Nope- http://www.shop24global.com... Vending machines stores are already highly popular in Asia and increasingly so in Europe, the United states wont be far behind. That is... what's left of physical shops to begin with- the Internet is absolutely destroying brick and motor stores. Some once big name anchor stores have now retreated into entirely digital formats. What's that mean? No more jobs at the local stores. The few jobs at the where house are replacing thousands lost across the country.

Surely a vending machine cant age verifying, we still need Attendants at places that sell alcohol! ... No... Age verification technology, while not perfect is rapidly improving, in a short time every vendors that sell alcohol or Tobacco wont need a human attendant, or one human attendant can do the work of many.

All of this means that with fewer jobs available, especially fewer low skill jobs... You run into a serious problem. There isn't enough money circling around the consumer economy to maintain sufficient consumer levels that support the modern market. These people in turn are becoming active drags on the system which was set up to demand productivity from its citizens but the system it self is not incapable of facilitation of that. There is no job that is repetitive or laborious that Automation will not soon claim.

So, how do you propose that our modern money mechanics, our modern market system will remain viable into the coming decades?


jamonster

Con

Thats just what i said.
Debate Round No. 2
Jevinigh

Pro

Uhg... My first debate gets hijacked by a troll.
jamonster

Con

The carpathia was a good boat made by automation.
Debate Round No. 3
Jevinigh

Pro



You've been blocked from accepting another one of my debates. I will restaert the debate shortly so a real one can take place.
jamonster

Con

But the carpathia...
Debate Round No. 4
Jevinigh

Pro

... Oke...
jamonster

Con

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo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
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Jevinigh 2 years ago
Jevinigh
Yeah I am a bit pissed he trolled this debate.
Posted by Zhege 2 years ago
Zhege
Just saw jamonster's debate on Goats vs Donkeys and saw he was debating here. He didn't disappoint my expectation from the other debate. Sucks to see he took your serious debate, though.
Posted by Jevinigh 2 years ago
Jevinigh
To Fazz: No, its not. But a Type 1 society is important and I plan another debate for that.
Posted by fazz 2 years ago
fazz
Is this related to Lumpenization? I have heard of that?
Posted by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
I second that pm me when it's time to vote. I'm very interested in this.
Posted by Raisor 2 years ago
Raisor
Cool resolution. PM to vote on it if anyone accepts it.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Relativist 2 years ago
Relativist
JevinighjamonsterTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con trolled a serious debate. Loss of conduct. Pro was the only one who made arguments, hence point award to pro.
Vote Placed by Hematite12 2 years ago
Hematite12
JevinighjamonsterTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con ff
Vote Placed by Raisor 2 years ago
Raisor
JevinighjamonsterTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Ff by con
Vote Placed by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
JevinighjamonsterTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Con's actions are disgraceful...