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Avengers 2 (Pro) vs Star wars episode 6 version (con

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/23/2015 Category: Movies
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 768 times Debate No: 74028
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
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I think if these two universes were to be at war, the Avengers would win. Note that even villains of each universe can be counted for help.


I accept. Note that I will also be using Expanded Universe sources.
Also, is it only Episode 6, or just the Star Wars galaxy as a whole?
Debate Round No. 1


You have the use the villains and heroes left in episode 6, in an all-out war of both movies.
I am going to watch Avengers 2 today to strengthen my argument.
In Avengers 2, we have Ultron's army and Iron man's house-party protocol, for it seems he has some suits left.
We have 8 avengers now technically, because of Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch.
Asgardian armies can be called upon as they will use the route Thor used, and can probably mislead half the enemy to another place if he came in a portal.
The Tesseract can be used for further purposes, and as a last resort a powerful explosive.
Loki can turn Jedi's to our side.
I am not taking in account Avengers 1's chitauri army.
I am waiting for Con to state his resources, since I didn't watch episode 6.


Thank you. For my argument, I will emphasize the combined resources of the Empire.
Taken from Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Warfare (2012)
"The Imperial Army
Squad (8 troopers): An army squad includes eight troopers plus a sergeant, with one of the eight troopers serving as a corporal.
Platoon (32 troopers): A platoon consists of four squads, commanded by a lieutenant and a sergeant-major.
Company (128 troopers): A company consists of four platoons, led by a captain.
Battalion (512 troopers): A battalion consists of four companies, led by a major. The battalion was the minimum deployment for an army ground operation unless Stormtroopers were included in the deployment.
Regiment (2,048 troopers): A regiment consists of four battalions, led by a lieutenant colonel.
Battlegroup (8,192 troopers): A battlegroup - the standard deployment for major Imperial Army offensives - consists of four regiments, led by a high colonel. The battlegroup was an Imperial designation that replaced the Republic designation of division. The equivalent in the Stormtrooper Corps is a legion.
Corps (32,768 troopers): A corps consists of four battlegroups, commanded by a major general. A corps was deployed as a unit for major planetary operations.
Army (131,072 troopers): An army consists of four corps, commanded by a general.
Systems army (as many as 393,216 troopers): A systems army consists of between one and three armies operating in the same system, and is largely a bookkeeping designation, not an operational unit.
Sector Army (as many as 1,572,864 troopers): A sector army consists of between two and four systems armies, and is commanded by a marshal - generally an honorary title held by a Moff" (Fry, Urquhart 125).

"The twenty army commands remained, however, and in the first days of the Empire they became power bases for a new class of regional governors - the Grand Moffs" (Fry, Urquhart 99).

One can conclude that the Empire consists of 20 Sectors and their respective Sector Armies. The strength of the Imperial army is 20*1,572,864 troopers, which equals 31,457,280 soldiers. Note that this already formidable number does not even include the separate Stormtrooper Corps or Imperial Navy.

The Imperial Navy's capital ships, the Star Destroyers, are formidable warships that are armed with a massive array of weapons that could cause massive amounts of death and destruction. A blockade of these ships around the Earth would be highly effective, as countermeasures on Earth either do not exist or are not advanced enough to repel the blockade.
From Star Wars: The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology (2004):
"The Taim & Bak XX-9 turbolasers aboard an Imperial Star Destroyer can even conduct planetary bombardments" (Blackman 70).

This is how the Empire would conduct its campaign against the Earth:
1. Have Star Destroyers blockade the Earth.
2. Threaten to use super weapons, such as the Death Star, on the Earth. Alternatively, using a Star Destroyer to bombard the planet's surface would also be effective.
3. Or, the Empire could mount a full scale invasion and overcome the heroes with superior numbers and superhumans of their own, such as Imperial Inquisitors, Dark Jedi, and Sith Lords such as Vader and Palpatine. Surely a force capable of fighting a galactic war can overcome a small, relatively primitive planet.
Debate Round No. 2


Now my turn.
There are currently no figures for Ultron's army.
In episode 6, the empire had been destroyed, so there would be far lesser resources than mentioned. Vader and Palpatine died in this episode, so they are not counted.
Thor's Asguardian army can go through the same route Thor went, and thus provide more reinforcements.
Heroes like Luke Skywalker can be turned to our side by Loki's sceptre.
J.A.R.V.I.S., Tony Stark's artificial intelligence theoretically should be able to easily hack the head of your robot armies, giving the Avengers a huge advantage. Shield operatives left can help in the procedure.
If I am not mistaken, the Death Star was destroyed as well.
House-Party protocol can allow us to reach your ships, although they are already hacked, and crush vital parts using Igor and Hulk Buster.
Quicksilver can be brought in space using iron patriot suit or falcon's wings if Stark is too obstinate. Due to super speed, huge amounts of ammo/firepower would be wasted by the ships.
In Avengers 1, a nuke warhead was launched. It is possible that Nick Fury still has control over many others, and thus can counter the ships.
Scarlet Witch is rumored to have mind-controlling abilities, I NEED to watch Avengers 2.
I fail to see how your computer-dependent army has a chance.


Here is my rebuttal:
The Empire still existed after the destruction of the Death Star and the death of the Emperor. In fact, several great leaders, such as Grand Admiral Thrawn and Admiral Pellaeon, came to power not too long after the Emperor's death. In fact, only a small fraction of the Empire's forces were present at the Battle of Endor.

Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Warfare (2012):
"The death of Emperor Palpatine sparked celebrations, but the Empire remained largely intact, and the Rebels were in no position to capitalize on their victory, not with nearly three-quarters of the Rebel capital ships that saw action above the Forest Moon needing extensive repairs" (Fry, Urquhart 185).

"The Empire still possessed a large advantage in terms of military power and economic resources" (Fry, Urquhart 188).

These quotes suggest that the Empire was not severely crippled after the Battle of Endor. It still had most of its resources and could still wage a war against the Rebellion.

The Imperial Army is not a "robot army" as Pro described it as. Their computers would also be extremely difficult to hack, as their technology is different from the technology on Earth. They probably have good defense against hackers and also probably use a language unfamiliar to J.A.R.V.I.S.

I fail to see how House-Party protocol would be effective. TIE fighters are designed to be fast and maneuverable, but their cannons are powerful enough to easily destroy shielded X-Wing fighters, as shown in Episode IV: A New Hope.

Nukes would be ineffective against Dtar Destroyers, because their shields are extremely resistant to attack.
From Star Wars: The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology:
"A Star Destroyer carries two large KDY ISD-72x shield generator domes, which create a protective screen capable of blocking nearly any attack" (Blackman 110).

"A particle shield can deflect solid, physical objects, including proton torpedoes and concussion missiles" (Blackman 111).

Not only would the shield absorb the blast if the nuke detonated, but the warhead could also bounce harmlessly off the Star Destroyer's shields.

Even if some Avengers have mind-control abilities, this would not be a large advantage. It is unlikely that they can control a sufficient amount of Stormtroopers to make a difference in the outcome of the war. It would be extremely difficult to control the minds of force-sensitives, such as Jedi, Dark Jedi, and Inquisitors. Most attempts to control a Jedi's mind have failed. Palpatine failed to turn Luke to the dark side, and the Jedi Aalya Secura freed herself of a Faleen's mind-control. Even those who are not force-sensitive, such as Boba Fett, have resisted attempts at force-manipulation.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by gabep 2 years ago
Please vote!
Posted by wheatises2153 2 years ago
realize that in age of ultron they destroyed lokis scepter and quicksilver died. so u cant use those
Posted by gabep 2 years ago
Obviously, they could not hack the computers for two reasons.
- With far more advanced technology, computers probably have more robust protection against hackers.
- Hackers from Earth would not know the language and operating system used in a galaxy far, far, away.
Posted by AKhattak 2 years ago
I guess you are still not convinced I will challenge you once I have watched Ultron myself in order to have all the info.
Posted by lord_megatron 2 years ago
I just watched Ultron in action. He is even better hacker than Jarvis. We'll get in all their machines for sure. Ultron's code was sprawled on the internet, and any transmission by the ships(which would be there) can be used to plant the data files of Ultron.
Posted by lord_megatron 2 years ago
Why don't you challenge me again for the same topic? Anyways Ultron seems to be having an army, and if Captain America's shield can be broke then your clones are useless. We'll kill the head of them or use whatever shield has left to hack their processor. J.A.R.V.I.S. would do a good job hacking the clones, and boom! all the armies are ours.
Posted by AKhattak 2 years ago
Yes the fall of the empire but not of the plane creating clone soldiers and with the rise of the republic they may turn to that planet in time of need. plus they do not have only clones many other planets have their own armies as well.
Posted by lord_megatron 2 years ago
Episode 6 saw the empire fall, so troopers would be limited. @gabep this is a war between all the characters and armies of the movies, and whichever seems to have more power shall be voted for.
Posted by AKhattak 2 years ago
I think people are concentrating too much on main characters for this one. Jedi Knights have the same level of Technology as Asgardians so Thor will find his hands full with them and with the clone soldiers the Galactic Empire has unlimited supply of soldiers to fight the war.
Posted by gabep 2 years ago
What do you mean? A versus match between the characters, or how good the story and plot is, or what? Does Episode 6 include the special edition edits, or not? Please clarify.
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