The Instigator
studentathletechristian8
Pro (for)
Losing
4 Points
The Contender
Loserboi
Con (against)
Winning
9 Points

B-Rabbit vs. Lotto

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Loserboi
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/18/2010 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 6 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 9,210 times Debate No: 13177
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (3)

 

studentathletechristian8

Pro

I thank my opponent and the audience in advance for the pleasure of introducing a relatively new debate topic.

Resolved: The result of the rap battle between B-Rabbit and Lotto, depicted in the film, "8 Mile," was correct.

Clarification:

B-Rabbit: Played by famous artist Eminem, the character's full name is Jimmy "B-Rabbit" Smith Junior. He is the white man rapping in the provided video.

Lotto: Simply put, he is the black man rapping in the provided video.

"8 Mile": a 2002 American hip-hop drama film, directed by Curtis Hanson and starring Eminem, Kim Basinger, Brittany Murphy, and Mekhi Phifer. The film is an account of a young rapper named Jimmy "B-Rabbit" Smith Jr., thought to portray Eminem, growing up in poverty-stricken 1995 Detroit as he struggles for respect among his peers, mostly African-American. Although the movie stars Eminem, he says the movie is not a full portrayal of his early life and start of his rap career.

More information regarding the movie: http://en.wikipedia.org...(film)

The result: In this case, the result of the rap battle is B-Rabbit's win and Lotto's loss. Essentially, after both rappers finish their performances, the audience screams for their favorite out of the two. Although the provided clip does not show the result, my opponent must accept that B-Rabbit won and Lotto lost. This is what truly happened in the film; simply, I could not find a clip where the audience judgment was included.

My opponent must argue that Lotto should have won the battle, rather than B-Rabbit.

I must argue that B-Rabbit did deserve to win the battle.

My opponent and I will argue the following criteria:

1) Flow: Essentially, "flow" entails the ability of each rapper to connect past jokes with new ones. It involves transition from statement to statement and incorporates the musical style of each rapper.

2) Insults: Essentially, my opponent and I shall argue who had the better insults. Insults may be valued as personal, lyrical, etc. That is up for the debaters to refute.

3) Presence: Essentially, "presence" involves the ability of each rapper to take charge of the stage and interact with the audience.

4) Overall Quality: Essentially, "overall quality" is an incorporation of the previously mentioned terms and a general perception of how each rapper performed as a whole.

5) My opponent may decide one topic of the battle to argue in this instance, and I shall refute.

I thank my opponent and the audience for a chance to debate. If anyone has questions regarding what I have typed, please post it on my profile or send me a message. I am unable to view the Comments section for this debate.

Thank you.
Loserboi

Con

I accept this debate. Please start
Debate Round No. 1
studentathletechristian8

Pro

I thank my opponent for accepting.

Here are the guidelines:

1) Flow: Essentially, "flow" entails the ability of each rapper to connect past jokes with new ones. It involves transition from statement to statement and incorporates the musical style of each rapper.

2) Insults: Essentially, my opponent and I shall argue who had the better insults. Insults may be valued as personal, lyrical, etc. That is up for the debaters to refute.

3) Presence: Essentially, "presence" involves the ability of each rapper to take charge of the stage and interact with the audience.

4) Overall Quality: Essentially, "overall quality" is an incorporation of the previously mentioned terms and a general perception of how each rapper performed as a whole.

My opponent did not pick an extra topic to discuss, so we shall argue the four.

1) Flow: B-Rabbit was able to connect a joke from a previous battle to the current one with Lotto. This can be noticed when B-Rabbit references, "Vanilla Ice." (Note: B-Rabbit previously battled Lickety Split, and that is where he got the joke.) Plus, Eminem used Lotto's "Leave it to Beaver" reference to his advantage and made fun of most of the members of the Leaders of the Free World. Lotto did not bring any past jokes or connect his jokes into a pattern that made sense. B-Rabbit was more organized with his pattern: he referenced Lotto's old joke, made fun of Lotto's external appearance, created a short, coherent diss of Lotto writing his raps before the battle, and ended with a crucial joke that took place after the beat finished. Lotto's voice was much more raspy and harder to pay attention to, compared to that of B-Rabbit. Also, Lotto used too many ideas that did not mesh well with one another. He did not have as good an understanding of the beat as did B-Rabbit.

2) Insults: B-Rabbit utilized jokes from older battles and played off of the insults from his opponent in order to win. He personalized many of his disses, including the famous, "Tang-top screaming Lotto I DON'T FIT YOU!" If you tally the personal disses of each, you will come to the conclusion that Eminem personalized his much more. Essentially, Lotto's only personal diss involved a reference to "Leave it to Beaver." Other than that, he could have simply written something beforehand and used it for the battle. On the other hand, Eminem used Lotto's physical appearance and on-the-spot thinking to create a truly unique free-style rap. The individual disses were better in the sense that they applied more to Lotto. Additionally, Eminem's line at the end, "I'll get the seven digits from your mother tomorrow," showed that he can still insult without the use of a beat. This is the line that really won him over.

3) Presence: Honestly, Lotto really did not interact with the crowd. He glanced at the crowd a couple of times and put his arm around B-Rabbit for several seconds. Not too impressive. On the other hand, B-Rabbit physically pointed out the members of the Leaders of the Free World, tugged on Lotto's tang-top on a couple occasions, posed a couple of times for the audience (made muscular pose to insult Lotto's "steroids" and tugged on his own shirt when he stated that the tang-top doesn't fit). B-Rabbit was much more active with the audience, and he had more energy.

4) Overall Quality: Essentially, B-Rabbit was better overall. He had a better flow, style, and energy. His insults were personalized and required on-the-spot thinking. He interacted more with the crowd. Further, his final joke that took place after the beat signifies his ability to continue a battle with ease and confidence.

I have proven that, in the four topics above, B-Rabbit should have won the rap battle. Thank you.
Loserboi

Con

Lotto's rap
"Yo, I'll spit a racial slur, honky sew me.
This sh1t is a horror flick,But a black guy doesn't die in this movie
You messin with Lotto dawg you gotta be kiddin
That makes me believe you really don't have an interest in livin
You think these n1ggaz gonna feel the sh1t you say?
I have a better chance of joining the KKK
O, for some real sh1t though I like you
That's why I didn't want to be the one you commit suicide to
Fvck Lotto call me your leader
I feel bad that I gotta murder the dude from leave it to beaver
I used to like that show
Now you got me in fight back mode
But, Oh well if you gotta go
then you gotta go
I hate to do this sh1t, I would love for this sh1t to last
So, I'll take pictures of my rear end so you won't forget my a$$
and, all's well that ends OK so I'll end this sh1t with a fvck you
but have a nice day"

23 seconds of just pause and staring from Eminem then he starts his rap
B-Rabbit's rap
"Ward, I think you were a little hard on the beaver
So was Eddie, Hasko, and Ms Cleaver
This guy keeps screaming he's paranoid
Quick! someone get his A$$ another steroid!
Blah Badi Boo Blah
Blah Badi Bloo Blah
I ain't hear a word you said
Hipidi Bloo Blah
Is that a tank top or a new bra?
Look Snoop Dogg just got a fvcking boob job
Didn't you listen to the last rhyme meat head?
Your saying the same sh1t that he said
Matter fact dogg heres a pencil
Go home write some sh1t and make it suspenseful
and don't come back till some dope hits you
Fvck it, you can take the mic home wit chu
Looking like a cyclone hit you
Tank top screaming "Lotto, I don't fit you!"
You look how far these white jokes gets you
Boys like: How Vanilla Ice goin diss you?!"
I would really like to add for the record that this last verse "My motto fvck Lotto, I'll get the seven digits from you mother foe a dollar tomorrow" should not have been said, because this verse was uttered outside the set rules (time limit) of the rap competition.

Flow: Lotto had better flow his white jokes followed after the next white jokes and kept to the point that Eminem was a broke white boy who should not be rapping, against a pro like him. All of Eminem's jokes were said in random order and were not very insulting if his main joke was how Lotto had a good physique.

Insults: Eminem's main insult was just saying how buff Lotto was, making comments about his his physique over and over. Is it really insulting the a buff man, by admitting how ridiculously buff he is? His first Verse "Ward, I think you were a little hard on the beaver so was Eddie, Hasko and Ms Beaver"
This to me say two things:
1. Eminem is comparing Lotto's crew to the Leave it to beaver cast
2. But, unfortunately for the start of the verse "Ward, I think you were a little hard on the beaver" Since Lotto clearly compared Eminem to "the guy from leave it to beaver" Eminem just admitted that he is like "Beaver" and said Lotto's rhymes were too harsh.

I would also like to point on another one of Eminem's verses "Looking like a cyclone hit you, your tank top screaming "Lotto I don't fit you" The verse that confuses me is "Looking like a cyclone hit you" this verse was ridiculously random and it just seems that Eminem just had to make something up to rhyme with his 2nd insult.

Eminem spent half the rap saying nothing (first 25seconds) with saying gibberish as a way of adding to his last rhyme "I didn't hear a word you said." Well this can be contradicted because Eminem's first verse which related to Leave it to Beaver clearly shows Eminem could hear everything he said.

Lotto's insults were more well thought out and had a point "You think that these n1ggaz are gonna feel any of the sh1t you say? I have a better chance of joining the KKK"- referring to his chances of winning is slim and "Ill take pictures of my rear end so you won't forget my a$$"- this is self explanatory
All of them were straight disses and attacks to Eminem as a white boy who does not fit into the black ghetto community.

Presence: I would say this is tied as both interacted with the audience with the same enthusiasm.

Overall Quality: Eminem paused for a very long time and then used gibberish without thinking up of solid verses "Boo Blah!" I would compare Eminem's rap to a very slow internet connection and trying to watch youtube, you have to pause the video first for it to load all the way through to watch the actual video without problems.
Debate Round No. 2
studentathletechristian8

Pro

I thank my opponent for the response.

The raps that my opponent posted at the beginning of his response are not worded correctly.

Please ignore my opponent's raps and instead rely on the ones that I have provided:

[Lotto]
I'll spit a racial slur, honky, sue me!
This sh!t is a horror flick,
but the black guy doesn't die in this movie!
Fvckin' wit Lotto, dawg, you gotta be kiddin!
That makes me believe you really dont have a interest in livin!
You think these n!ggas gonna feel the sh!t you say?
I got a betta chance joining the KKK.
On some real sh!t, though, I like you
That's why I didn't wanna have to be the one you commit sucide to
Fvck 'Lotto,' call me your leader
I feel bad I gotta murder that dude from "Leave It To Beaver"
I used to like that show, now you got me to "fight back" mode
But oh well, if you gotta go, then you gotta go!
I hate to do this, I would love for this sh!t to last
So I'll take pictures of my rear end so you won't forget my @$$
And all's well that ends ok
So I'll end this sh!t wit a "FVCK you, but have a nice day!"

[B-Rabbit]
Ward, I think you were a little hard on the Beaver
So was Eddie Haskal, Wally, and Ms. Cleaver
This guy keeps screamin', he's paranoid!
Quick, someone get his @$$ another steriod!
"Blahbity bloo blah blah blahbity bloo blah!"
I ain't hear a word you said, "hipidy hooblah!"
Is that a tank top, or a new bra?
Look, Snoop Dogg just got a fvckin' boob job!
Didn't you listen to the last round, meat head?
Pay attention, you're sayin the same sh!t that he said!
Matter fact, dog, here's a pencil
Go home, write some sh!t, make it suspenseful,
And don't come back until something dope hits you
Fvck it! You can take the mike home with you!
Lookin' like a cyclone hit you,
Tank top screamin', "Lotto, I don't fit you!"
You see how far those white jokes get you
Boy's like "How Vanilla Ice gon' diss you?"
My motto: Fvck Lotto!
I get the 7 digits from your mother for a dolla tomorrow!

http://www.lyrics007.com...

=================

"23 seconds of just pause and staring from Eminem then he starts his rap."

The audience should disregard this. If you look back at the video, you will notice that the DJ did not give B-Rabbit a beat for the first twenty seconds. B-Rabbit started his rap only several seconds after the beat started; the DJ was at fault for the delay, not B-Rabbit.

"I would really like to add for the record that this last verse "My motto fvck Lotto, I'll get the seven digits from you mother foe a dollar tomorrow" should not have been said, because this verse was uttered outside the set rules (time limit) of the rap competition."

Once again, the audience should disregard this. For this rap battle and the last one against Papa Doc, B-Rabbit continued to rap after the beat, and he was not penalized. Thus, the last verse counts and remains valid.

"Flow: Lotto had better flow his white jokes followed after the next white jokes and kept to the point that Eminem was a broke white boy who should not be rapping, against a pro like him. All of Eminem's jokes were said in random order and were not very insulting if his main joke was how Lotto had a good physique."

Lotto only made a few white jokes. Essentially, Lotto did the same thing that Lickety Split did; he commented on B-Rabbit's skin color and poverty level. Nothing special. Lotto didn't add anything new; he only took the ideas the last rapper had and put them in a different verse. Actually, this is in B-Rabbit's favor. Instead of playing the race card, B-Rabbit personalized his raps and continually put flow after flow of dissing Lotto. Eminem's jokes were certainly in a certain order, and if you think the only thing B-Rabbit was doing was commenting on Lotto's good "physique," then you misunderstood the rap. B-Rabbit personally trashed Lotto, while Lotto took ideas from a previous rapper. Eminem still wins in this category.

"Insults: Eminem's main insult was just saying how buff Lotto was, making comments about his his physique over and over. Is it really insulting the a buff man, by admitting how ridiculously buff he is?"

I have already refuted this comment. You obviously do not understand what B-Rabbit did with his comments toward Lotto's body. He personalized the insults strictly towards Lotto, instead of depending on race, economic income, etc. This only proves that B-Rabbit is more skillful with lyrics and insults compared to Lotto.

"His first Verse "Ward, I think you were a little hard on the beaver so was Eddie, Hasko and Ms Beaver"
This to me say two things:
1. Eminem is comparing Lotto's crew to the Leave it to beaver cast
2. But, unfortunately for the start of the verse "Ward, I think you were a little hard on the beaver" Since Lotto clearly compared Eminem to "the guy from leave it to beaver" Eminem just admitted that he is like "Beaver" and said Lotto's rhymes were too harsh."

1. B-Rabbit took one of Lotto's jokes and used it against him. He was able to insult Lotto and his crew, especially by the fact that he referenced one of them as BEAVER'S MOTHER, a woman.

2. You obviously don't understand what B-Rabbit did. Like I said before, B-Rabbit took one of Lotto's jokes, made fun of it, and then used it against him.

"The verse that confuses me is "Looking like a cyclone hit you" this verse was ridiculously random and it just seems that Eminem just had to make something up to rhyme with his 2nd insult."

It was not random; he was commenting on Lotto's physical appearance, and backed it up with more disses about Lotto's appearances. You misunderstood again.

"Eminem spent half the rap saying nothing (first 25seconds) with saying gibberish as a way of adding to his last rhyme "I didn't hear a word you said." Well this can be contradicted because Eminem's first verse which related to Leave it to Beaver clearly shows Eminem could hear everything he said."

You misunderstand what B-Rabbit was doing. Every point of his rap meant something. He was speaking "gibberish" and said "I didn't hear a word you said" to make fun of Lotto's raspy voice. Obviously B-Rabbit could hear him, but he was simply making fun of the way Lotto speaks.

Once again, Lotto's disses were not "more well thought out." Lotto used old ideas from the previous rapper in the fact that he only commented on Eminem's skin and poverty. Nothing new. Plus, most of Lotto's jokes weren't personalized.
My opponent only makes my case stronger in the fact that Lotto only depended on one thing: Eminem's skin color. Once again, the other rapper had already used this and failed. Besides, only a couple of Lotto's disses were directed towards color.

"Presence: I would say this is tied as both interacted with the audience with the same enthusiasm."

Wrong. You have not refuted what I said. Look at what I wrote about the Presence category. B-Rabbit did more interaction and had a higher energy level.

"Eminem paused for a very long time ..."

No he didn't. The DJ didn't play a beat.

"...then used gibberish without thinking up of solid verses "Boo Blah!""

I have already refuted this.

My opponent's reference to a slow YouTube video is ridiculously irrelevant to the topic at hand.

I have refuted everything my opponent has said; actually, I have shown some of it to make my case stronger. My opponent barely touched on my argumentation.

Thank you.

I have provided the video of B-Rabbit beating Lickety Split prior to defeating Lotto.
Loserboi

Con

"Once again, the audience should disregard this. For this rap battle and the last one against Papa Doc, B-Rabbit continued to rap after the beat, and he was not penalized. Thus, the last verse counts and remains valid."

The audience should take this into consideration. It gives B-rabbit an unfair advantage, and extra verse or two could easily make the rap a lot more powerful. His last rhyme was what got the audience to scream the most. Eminem got more than the allowed 1minute which is not fair to the contestant Lotto. Eminem cannot be penalized... It's the ghetto streets whats going to be the punishment? It was also not fair that his best friend was the main judge in this competition.

Flow: Pro talks about how Lotto just talked about the same stuff that lickety spit talked about. B-Rabbits first rap and his 2nd did the same thing. B rabbit in his rap with lickety split took the time to diss his crew calling them bitches and in the 2nd rap did it again, how is that any different from white jokes and how poor Eminem is? Eminem 1st rap and 2nd rap if you compare the two are almost the same, he starts with dissing the crew and then he goes and disses how the rappers spoke.
"Wickedy lickety shot
Spitlickety, Spikedly split lickety" in his first rap with Lickety
HOW is that any different from
"Hoopidi hoo pla"
"Blah boo ba di hoo blah"
B-Rabbit is just doing the same insults each time and you gonna criticize lotto for using different white jokes? Eminem couldn't even think of new insults or new ways to insult himself. Lotto's jokes directly targeted Eminem, Eminem picked the most ridiculous thing to insult lotto with and that was his tank top.

Insults: How is any of it actually insulting pro? How is that trashing lotto? His first verse about the reference to Leave it to beaver, B-Rabbit went to insult the rest of the crew instead of Lotto. B-Rabbit is not more skillful in his lyrics, he spoke gibberish, stop trying to come up with smart explanations and excuses for not coming up with valid verses. "Blah ba bi dee boo blah" is just being stupid. Raps that use personal methods like income and race are directly more personal and hurts the opposition more. If I was broke i would find it more insulting that someone insulted me because I was broke and not because I am wearing funny clothing. Eminem's raps were more comedic but they were not more insulting.

1. Eminem took one of Lotto's jokes and used it to insult the members of Lotto's crew but not Lotto. He referenced Beaver's mother a woman to Papa Doc NOT LOTTO. Eminem felt a more personal need to attack his future opponent instead of his current one.

2. B-Rabbit used the joke and used it to attack someone else aside from Lotto. Calling Lotto Ward, the leader of the Beaver household family, which ultimately means Eminem would have to concede in this scenario insult that he is Beaver in relation to Lotto's joke which referenced Eminem as Beaver. Eminem just basically admitted he is Lotto's bitch. Ward is superior to Beaver. Eminem chose the wrong person to call Ms Cleaver.

Again Eminem used the same insult against Lotto. It does not take much thought to reword what you just said in the last rhyme. Eminem has basically built a template this entire rap that would have worked. insult the crew, insult the voice, and than speak gibberish. These joke are not personal, they are funny but they do not fit the style of a underground rap battle. It fits the rap battles on DDO which are for fun. Going into this battle both Eminem and Free World knew this would be personal.

B-Rabbit did not even bother to think of something new. Like i said he continues to do the same thing insult crew, than insult voice it does not make him more creative. Eminem always had the advantage because he could use jokes against someone. It is like a debate on DDO, Pro always has the burden of proof and Con has a chance to use those points against Pro. Eminem was always Con, Lotto did not have a chance to counter argue. Eminem's creativity if any was only based on the fact that he got to go 2nd in the battle of this one round "debate" if you could call it that.

Presence: If PRO insists there is actually a difference in presence, I will break it down to how he did it. Lotto did interact with the crowd he turned and faced them a total 3 times, by facing them i mean turning his head around spitting a rap for the audience and going back to B-Rabbit. B-Rabbit turned and faced the audience 3 times as well. Eminem tugged on Lotto's shirt. Lotto wrapped his hands around Eminem and showed him his A$$. The audience equally responded to both of them by cheering and screaming oOo's and OWWw. TIE for presence.

4) Eminem's insults were not personal at all. They were just funny, he repeated the same template in all of his raps. Eminem had to use Gibberish, I am not letting this point go because there is no reason to not think of actual verses. Lotto's jokes all made sense, and attacked Eminem personally as a person, Lotto used jokes people would usually fight over. Eminem picked small things to insult Lotto with, his tanktop? that is really the best Eminem could come up with? Lotto dissed him personally as a punk white boy, a crappy rapper, basically mooning eminem, and "fvck you" at the end.
Debate Round No. 3
studentathletechristian8

Pro

studentathletechristian8 forfeited this round.
Loserboi

Con

Since Pro forfeited the last round, I don't know what I am supposed to do here.

Lotto should have won the rap battle because his insults were personal to what B-Rabbit was actually going through in his life. B-Rabbit made humorous comments but none of them were actually insulting. B-Rabbit came up with a template to rap against each one of his opponents. In the rap against Lotto, B-Rabbit spent more spouting gibberish, and attacking Lotto's crew instead of Lotto himself. B-Rabbit was already trying to get to Papa Doc and did not bother to really address Lotto. Lotto had better insults, better flow, and each verse was solid and were real sentences. B-Rabbit only insulted Lotto's shirt which is really sad considering he went 2nd and had that entire time to think of a rap. The entire battle was curved in Eminem's favor. He got to go 2nd giving him more time to think, His best friend was the judge and allowed him to go over the allowed time limit. Will all these advantages all B-Rabbit could come up with was "hoo bla and your shirt dont fit you"??? Truly disappointing on B-Rabbits half.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
I missed some verses really? damn sory
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
someone needed to tackle eminem all his raps exceeded one minute in the movie
Posted by studentathletechristian8 6 years ago
studentathletechristian8
I am going to rephrase the actual raps.

You didn't catch all of the rhymes.
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
I am going to assume SAC8 has lost interest
Posted by studentathletechristian8 6 years ago
studentathletechristian8
All at once would be better.

If you want, you can simply accept the first round, and I will begin my argumentation in the second.
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
Are we supposed to talk about Flow, Insults, Presence, and overall quality individually in each round or do i address them all at once?
Posted by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
wow... this seems not possible to win, everything is opinionated
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Loserboi 6 years ago
Loserboi
studentathletechristian8LoserboiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Vote Placed by m93samman 6 years ago
m93samman
studentathletechristian8LoserboiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:31 
Vote Placed by Blank 6 years ago
Blank
studentathletechristian8LoserboiTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:14