The Instigator
minddrag
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
DiegoJuan403
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

BIRT minimum wage should be raised in the United States

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/8/2016 Category: Economics
Updated: 10 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 453 times Debate No: 89370
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

minddrag

Con

The minimum wage in the United States is currently $7.25. My opponent will be arguing that it should be raised. My opponent shall argue that it should be raised any increment higher then 1 dollar so any wage $8.25 or above. All definitions in this resolution are self explanatory. My opponent may begin in the first round.
DiegoJuan403

Pro

I accept the challenge.

My argument will be that minimum wage raise would increasing society.

My points
-More money to spend so more money that will go to entraining, movies, and gaming.
-Increase in most wages
For example minimum wage pays 10.10 to pizza guy
If McDonald's doesn't raise it price to the manager of McDonald's which is about 10.00 in Illinois to 13-16 dollars then noone will take the job. So in reality everyone gets a raise.
http://www.snagajob.com...
-America Dream If your come out of Mexico and work in the field hard and can't even support your family there is a problem

-Their be a job cut
Yes and no
Some career would not have jobs cuts for example a teaching Career
Think about will a school cut jobs.
Would they cut one of their two best teacher forcing the last one to work harder and possibly quitting.
Which brings my other point there will be a job cut but the manager will be thinking what jobs aren't needed or workers that don't work well.
-Prices will raise interest
In this article its states that walmart would raise the prices by one cent.
http://thinkprogress.org...
Debate Round No. 1
minddrag

Con

Thank you for your speech. I look forward to a good and informative debate.

To begin, I do not think my opponent understands minimum wage based on his statement:

"minimum wage pays 10.10 to pizza guy. If McDonald's doesn't raise it price to the manager of McDonald's which is about 10.00 in Illinois to 13-16 dollars then no one will take the job. So in reality everyone gets a raise."

To raise the minimum wage you legislate a law where EVERY COMPANY must raise the wages of all of its workers to that wage or above. If you change the minimum wage to $10.10 no company can pay a worker less than $10.10.

On a completely unrelated note, the American dream is meant to be for Americans. People immigrating from mexico to america do not deserve anything, and especially should not get to decide on our wages.

I will not actually explain what happens when you raise the minimum wage. If you raise the lowest amount a person can get paid, the company must pay them more. To compensate for this, the company may raise the prices of its products. Due to this, the only product of a raise of minimum wage is inflation, it does not actually benefit anyone.

But raising the minimum wage actually harms people. Companies cannot afford to pay the workers more, will replace them with machines. Then the workers are unemployed. Once they are unemployed they claim more unemployment benefits. Coupled with the fact that the government cannot actually replace their workers so pays them more, the government will lose money.

The costs of raising the minimum wage are high and it provides no benefits. This is why the minimum wage must not be raised.
DiegoJuan403

Pro

"To raise the minimum wage you legislate a law where EVERY COMPANY must raise the wages of all of its workers to that wage or above. If you change the minimum wage to $10.10 no company can pay a worker less than $10.10."

I disagree companies need to raise people's wages. If you're getting paid 15 dollars and hour in a welding career what would be the difference of working at McDonald skill level McDonald is easier to work at so the company would raise your wage to 17-22 dollars in order to keep workers not going to work at McDonald. That's my point its will just happen without the government forcing companies to raise people's wages.

"On a completely unrelated note, the American dream is meant to be for Americans. People immigrating from mexico to america do not deserve anything, and especially should not get to decide on our wages.

The American Dream is a national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (Democracy, Rights, Liberty, Opportunity, and Equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, and an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few ...
https://en.wikipedia.org...

On the definition where does it say Americans are the only one allow to have the American dream. The American dream is followed by my uncles and mother. They work there butts off and you say they don't deserve the American dream. My mother work in landscaping with my uncle for a while now she has a house cleaning company that is successful. My two uncles Juan and Victor are living the American dream right now. My uncle Juan owes one of the best landscaping business in Merced county he has work on Hector a wealthy multi millionaire Mexican who followed the American Dream. My uncle Victor is here to support his family in Mexico. I'll tell you now the work harder than you. If they had the money they would do better in college then you. They are better than most Americans.

"I will not actually explain what happens when you raise the minimum wage. If you raise the lowest amount a person can get paid, the company must pay them more. To compensate for this, the company may raise the prices of its products. Due to this, the only product of a raise of minimum wage is inflation, it does not actually benefit anyone."

I want to see the source

"But raising the minimum wage actually harms people. Companies cannot afford to pay the workers more, will replace them with machines. Then the workers are unemployed. Once they are unemployed they claim more unemployment benefits. Coupled with the fact that the government cannot actually replace their workers so pays them more, the government will lose money."

This information is slippery slope which is a fallacy so therefore invalid.

Are my other points right? like better society

If you feel like Mexicans aren't able to follow the American dream I question if your even america or just some businessman who believes in money.

If my second idea is right this debate will be interesting.
Debate Round No. 2
minddrag

Con

That was a very interesting response, and I see that this debate might not be a pushover. I would again like to remind my opponent that he is arguing that the government should legislate that the minimum wage be raised from $7.25 to $8.25. In you previous speech you stated "That's my point its will just happen without the government forcing companies to raise people's wages." I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. McDonalds will not just raise their wages unless forced to by the government. To state that a company would voluntarily pay their workers more is egregious.

You stated "The American Dream includes the opportunity for prosperity and success" and "come out of Mexico and work in the field hard and can't even support your family there is a problem".

The first thing I would like to point out here is that the opportunity for prosperity and success does not mean that if you move to America you are entitled to money to support your family. If you read a little farther in the article that you provided for the definition of the american dream you may notice "opportunity for Americans to achieve prosperity through hard work." I would ask my opponent if Mexicans who just immigrate to the country are Americans? The answer for this question is implied inside of it and that is Mexicans are not Americans.

Now I will return to the resolution and we should talk no more about the american dream. I would be open to a different debate on weather the american dream would apply to immigrants.

"I want to see the source". That's not how this works. This is a basic economic principle called the law of supply and demand. But I suppose, to give you a worthy debate I will go fully in depth in the effects of raising the minimum wage.

Before I begin I would just like to point out that using a slippery slope fallacy does not actually make a point invalid. There are cases where a slope is used because it is actually what happens after an event. Its like saying that after a shooting the police will close down the place where the shooting happened. This is a fact and protocol, and will happen, and is therefore not a slippery slope.

Because you asked, I will now fully explain the law of supply and demand, along with the effects of raising the minimum wage to a very high degree of scrutiny, including sources, so that you cannot state that it is a slippery slope. I have not seen you make one proper rebuttal or argument, yet you call me out on an improper fallacy. Here we go.

I will now define some key terms:
The law of supply states that the quantity of a good supplied (i.e., the amount owners or producers offer for sale) rises as the market price rises, and falls as the price falls. Conversely, the law of demand (see demand) says that the quantity of a good demanded falls as the price rises, and vice versa. [1]

When you raise the minimum wage, it is obvious that companies will have to pay their workers more. That is an absolute fact. To make ends meet or keep the profit that the company is making the company has two choices to keep their profit the same. The company can either raise the prices of its products or fire workers. This is also a fact.

Now lets take a look at the first option, to raise the prices. So the workers wage rise and the prices of all the products rise also.

Here is the definition of inflation:
In economics, inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. When the price level rises, each unit of currency buys fewer goods and services. [2] You can see that the prices will be raised, which fits the definition of inflation.

Now we have established that raising the minimum wage will cause inflation. Now the next thing I must address is the problem with inflation. The problem is that this type of inflation is not natural or gradual like the definition above. This would actually cause hyperinflation.

Hyperinflation: When associated with depressions, hyperinflation often occurs when there is a large increase in the money supply not supported by gross domestic product (GDP) growth, resulting in an imbalance in the supply and demand for the money. Left unchecked this causes prices to increase, as the currency loses its value. [3] We can see that this raise in the prices of items is not gradual, and not supported by the GDP and is therefore hyperinflation.

Hyper inflation is horrible as no investors will invest in the country and no citizens will be able to buy anything as the currency loses its value faster then the wages increase.

Now we can take a look at the other path which is that the company lays off workers. Higher minimum wage would not only kill existing jobs but also result in closing a substantial number of small businesses, from 15-20%. [4]

To reduce the cost of workers but still keep the productivity the same, the company might use electronic labor, such as McDonalds. [5] Now the jobs are gone and the prices are higher.

Now it is a fact that when people are un-employed the government must hand out un-employment benefits. That does mean that the government must pay out more money to the workers, and thus the government is more in debt or cuts social spending.

Now that we have cleared up the fact that workers will lose jobs and inflation will occur we can finally draw the conclusion to the aggregate of all these problems. This is stagflation.

Stagflation is a condition of slow economic growth and relatively high unemployment accompanied by rising prices, or inflation, and a decline in Gross Domestic Product (GDP).[6]

Now how does this occur. Usually, when unemployment is high, spending declines, as do prices of goods. Stagflation occurs when the prices of goods rise while unemployment increases and spending declines. Stagflation can prove to be a particularly tough problem for governments to deal with due to the fact that most policies designed to lower inflation tend to make it tougher for the unemployed, and policies designed to ease unemployment raise inflation. [7]

Now we can look back on the facts that I have presented. People are laid off and the prices of goods rise. Spending will also decline due to both of these factors. So we can conclude that since it fits these factors, raising the minimum wage will cause stagflation.

So I will now connect the dots back to minimum wage. When the minimum wage rises, it causes inflation and layoffs which can, and most likely will lead to stagflation. The government will have to spend more and cut costs. We can obviously draw the conclusion that the government requires its worker numbers at a certain level, so it cannot lay off the workers, and have to pay them more. We can assume then that the government will be stretched thin as it is paying unemployment benefits and its workers more. We can see that this will lead to less investment, debt for the country and overall a bad economy. I wonder how my opponent can advocate for the minimum wage to be raised, after encountering all these facts?!

Sources:
1. http://www.econlib.org...
2. https://en.wikipedia.org...
3. http://www.investopedia.com...
4. http://www.investopedia.com...
5. http://newsexaminer.net...
6. http://www.investopedia.com...
7. http://www.investopedia.com...
DiegoJuan403

Pro

DiegoJuan403 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
minddrag

Con

Thank you for your reply in the comments. I hope that the quality of my argument does not diminish, but I am rushing my argument due to the fact that I only received your argument 4 hours from my deadline.

My first point is that any job that requires skill does not pay their workers minimum wage. Minimum wage is for unskilled workers, who cannot conduct any other job. I do not see any reason why the change in minimum wage would come with pressure from people who work for minimum wage.

I agree that robots are a reality. My argument is that it will push the development and implementation of these robots. When you force companies to make decisions, they will develop quicker and implement these robots quicker. Small businesses also cannot implement mechanical labor. They will have to layoff workers or close down their business, which will then eliminate jobs, therefore job cuts will still happen.

If you read the definition of inflation and hyperinflation, you may notice that hyperinflation can be bad or horrible. The hyperinflation that was in the civil war and and the revolutionary war was horrible hyperinflation. This may not cause that level of hyperinflation but it will still cause hyperinflation. Hyperinflation in the U.S. is a certainty within the next 10 years.[1]

Hyperinflation is caused by crises that make it difficult for the government to tax the population.[2] Unlike low inflation, where the process of rising prices is protracted and not generally noticeable except by studying past market prices, hyperinflation sees a rapid and continuing increase in nominal prices and in the supply of money, and the nominal cost of goods.[3]

The raising of the minimum wage would force layoffs and create inflation in the prices and the currency cost, so it will cause hyperinflation.

This is why raising the minimum wage will cause hyperinflation, and through that, is why raising the minimum wage is bad for the economy and must not happen.

Sources
Http://www.forbes.com...
https://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.forbes.com...
DiegoJuan403

Pro

Sorry if I rushed your debate. Now with your final statement I agree with some of your points. Now lets see what points I agree on.

Your first point about everyone not getting a raise I disagree with. I made many examples about why you would raise a welders wage because jobs harder and they would be getting payed the same as a McDonald's work if it went to 15 dollars per hour. This is the wage welders gets when welding is harder more physical then working at McDonalds. So it just logical in order to keep workers you need to raise the wage.

I agree that a raise in minimum wage will increase more robots production. I personally believe that this is good for business but not for the low paying workers excluding labor worker. It will block out a lot of the low paying jobs. But still the minimum wage raise will affect the other wages. It will make a large employed phenomena but it will be in the long run. Faster but not overnight. I personally believe if minimum wage doesn't raise maybe in 10-20 years but if minimum wage raises then maybe in 5-10. My personal idea though.

Hyperinflation. A word that represent big works in economy or a feared word. Now will minimum wage affect hyperinflation. yes. But I believe that it's not minimum wage causing it. This corrupt government made it. Minimum wage helps everybody even the rich. This country is working for the rich not the middle class. I'll tell you the rich will make these lies. They are the one getting rich and protect by the police. What do we get being in middle class. Nothing. We are living where the rich is getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. This will help the middle class and lower. We are working 48 hours a week and can only support food, water, and bills. We need more money to live a life. Rich will stay rich. They just would make a little less money. They will get a better products. Better games. Better food.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Daffa8799 10 months ago
Daffa8799
Good arguments in favor of supporting minimum wage. My Opinion same as Diego Juan and then he proveided the facts...
Posted by DiegoJuan403 10 months ago
DiegoJuan403
Part 2

With a minimum wage raise there will be more money in society right. More money means more spending. This is a human trait. But where will this money go to. Entertaining, higher quality food, and etc. With a minimum wage raise there will be more higher quality products because companies will know that their consumers have more money. So this will be the solution for business making money right instead of job cuts or raising prices .

With the job cut. It won't be as bad as people say. You need 12 workers at McDonald's you need 12 workers. You're not going to fire the fryer boy job and make the griller work on the grill and fryer because mistake may happen. Let's say 2 of the 12 workers don't work well. You would fire them. All a raise in minimum wage would do is make companies question if they need those workers.

Hyperinflation a point you made. Hyperinflation any as happen twice. The revolutionary war and end of the civil war. Not even World War 2 caused Hyperinflation. Another point Typer made was that it would take a massive event to cause hyperinflation. The nuking of New York.
http://www.zerohedge.com...

Now Stagflation won't happen if job cuts don't happen.

How will I attack your statement proving that job cuts wont happen, products wont raise, and hyperinflation is unlikely.

Ps sorry for being late
Posted by DiegoJuan403 10 months ago
DiegoJuan403
Okay you didn't get my point about how raising minimum wage will raise others jobs to. Picture yourself as an owner of a welding business. The minimum wage is 15 dollars and you're paying your workers 15 dollars. Now your workers complain about their wages. They compare their job to the pizza man. He is driving dropping pizza that all. But he is pay the same wage. You train these workers. You want them to stay to work in your business. How do you keep them their? Why would you fire them?

Who gets the American Dream? Interesting discussion. Now I shouldn't of say mexican. Some people fail in life work on minimum wage and can't support their families. I find this to be an issues that a raise in minimum wage can solve. As long as hyperinflation and worker cut doesn't happen. Wouldn"t this work. If I can bring my information against a product raise and worker cut wouldn't minimum wage be good. http://nypost.com...

Now about you supporting slippery slope. I made the mistake about saying it's wrong all the time but something about slippery slope is it faded. Let me example slippery slope isn't reliable but possible with your robot slippery slope. There is lots of different ways it can go. By raising minimum wage is will harm people. What if it doesn't. Once unemployed they will ask for money from the government. Some people will others just look for another job. Get my point. Now you robot idea. I believe you're right about it but we both know robot are cheaper than workers today even if minimum wage raise doesn't happen. Rodots are a reality. I don't know if your school ever says this but don't get a job career that will get replaced by robots. It's going to happen even if minimum wage does not raise. My conclusion is that slippery slope doesn"t make ideas invalid but make its questionable and robots are already takeover jobs even if minimum wage doesn't raise.
Posted by Daffa8799 10 months ago
Daffa8799
I'd still think minimum wage raise will not directly affecting corporation to raise prices to reduce liquidation. It will happen in the long run, and there're two possibilities. Either spending will increase or high unemployment. In 1990s most of economists are doing some research about minimum wage and today economists are mostly agree that minimum wage will leads into higher spending, higher income and reducing unemployment.
Posted by minddrag 10 months ago
minddrag
go ahead, just make it kinda fast, I need the time to write back :)
Posted by DiegoJuan403 10 months ago
DiegoJuan403
oh sheet man can i but my agrument in the comments
Posted by ShakeNBake 10 months ago
ShakeNBake
I agree that it should be abolished.
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