The Instigator
Pro (for)
4 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Baha'i Fulfills "Father" of the New Testament

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/3/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 550 times Debate No: 59899
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (1)




The New Testament mentions the "Father" as an example in the following verses:

The Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
" that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. (Matthew 5:45)
Go, instead, to my brothers and tell them: "I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." (John 20:17)
Then the righteous will shine like the Sun in the kingdom of their Father. (Matthew 13:43)
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father, Who is unseen. Then your Father, Who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. (Matthew 6:6)
Your Father knows what you need before you ask him. (Matthew 6:8)
Your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. (Matthew 6:32-33)
In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)
Be careful not to do your acts of righteousness before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. (Matthew 6:1)
This, then, is how you should pray: "Our Father, Who is in heaven, hallowed be your name." (Matthew 6:9)
For if you forgive people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. (Matthew 6:14)
Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. (Luke 6:36)

Baha'u'llah claims to be the appearance of the Father mentioned in the New Testament. Here are some examples:

"Blessed be the Lord Who is the Father! He, verily, **is come** unto the nations in His most great majesty. "

""Lo! The Father **is come**, and that which ye were promised in the Kingdom **is fulfilled!**"" "

"He Who is the Father **is come**, and the Son (Jesus), in the holy vale, crieth out: 'Here am I, here am I, O Lord, My God!', whilst Sinai circleth round the House, and the Burning Bush calleth aloud: 'The All-Bounteous is come mounted upon the clouds! Blessed is he that draweth nigh unto Him, and woe betide them that are far away.' "

"Trembling hath seized all the kindreds of the earth, and He Who is the Everlasting Father **calleth aloud** (refering here to Himself) between earth and heaven."


“Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

He (Jesus) replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. -Luke 21:7-8

At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather. -Matthew 24:23-28

Jesus only came once as a regular man, and explicitly warned that others would come claiming to be him. Baha'u'llah fits this description perfectly. Any claims by Baha'u'llah to divinity are to be taken as heretical by Christians, and should be recognized as a contridiction between Baha'u'llah's claims and Jesus claims by non-believers.

Baha'u'llah cannot be the Messiah or Father in the New Testament.
Debate Round No. 1


So let us consider the Biblical warning of false prophets, quoted above, and see how this applies to Baha'u'llah.

There are three reasons why these warnings do not apply to Baha'u'llah and His claim:

1. Jesus warns of false prophets, but Baha'u'llah never claimed to be a "prophet". Yes, the word "prophet" is used to describe Baha'u'llah in general Baha'i marketing material and introductory books and websites. BUT, Baha'u'llah never used the word "prophet" (nabi in Arabic) to describe Himself. Baha'u'llah never Himself claimed to be a prophet, so He cannot be a false prophet if He isn't a prophet in the first place. So what does Baha'u'llah actually claim? He claims to be the "Sender of Prophets".

2. Jesus warns that people to say the "time is near" are not to be believed. Baha'u'llah does not claim the time is near, but actually that the time has already passed. See His Book "Epistle to the Son of the Wolf" where He says this.

3. Jesus warned that people will claim to be the Messiah but they should not be believed. Baha'u'llah in fact states that Jesus is the Messiah and claims the title of "Father" for Himself, not "Messiah". So again this warning does not apply to Baha'u'llah either. Baha'u'llah goes on to say that the promises of Jesus were fulfilled to the extent that Jesus Himself rejoiced when Baha'u'llah appeared. This statement of Baha'u'llah also demonstrated that Baha'u'llah claimed that He and Jesus are two different individuals but are "one" in the sense that Father and Son are "one".


Skynet forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2


I pass here due to the forfeiture.


Final round is a wash. I can't say I'm up for a rematch at this time, due to unexpected business.
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Badi-Nontheist 2 years ago
no worried bud.
Posted by Skynet 2 years ago
Sorry, busy with work and family. Lost track of time.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture