The Instigator
Stupidape
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
bootsandjeans
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Ban bacon

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/2/2015 Category: Health
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 569 times Debate No: 81908
Debate Rounds (3)
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Stupidape

Pro

I pro will argue for the topic
Con against the topic

Ban "

: to forbid people from using (something) : to say that something cannot be used or done

: to forbid (someone) from doing or being part of something" Merriam-webster

Bacon "

the back and sides of the hog, salted and dried or smoked, usually sliced thin and fried for food."

http://www.merriam-webster.com...
http://dictionary.reference.com...
bootsandjeans

Con

Top 5 Reasons to not ban bacon:

1. It tastes amazing and can enhance almost anything
2. Bacon is just one cut off of a pig and so if you banned bacon you'd be wasting a portion of the animal during butchering unless you are wanting to ban pork altogether
3. Bacon is part of a sustainable food source
4. Bacon has a lot of protein and if eaten in moderation it's not that bad for you
5. Breakfast just wouldn't be breakfast without bacon

and a bonus 6th reason would be that there's no real legitimate reason to ban bacon
Debate Round No. 1
Stupidape

Pro

  1. Ethics and animal cruelty
    A. Establishing sentience
    B. Establishing suffering
    C. Supply and demand


    II. Environment
    III. Health
    IV. Summary
    V. Rebuttal of Con's argument
    VI. Links

    I. Ethics and animal cruelty
    A. Establishing sentience Now do animals do animals have sentience, the capacity to suffer and feel pain? Yes, there is scientific proof. “After 2,500 Studies, It's Time to Declare Animal Sentience Proven (Op-Ed)” Marc Bekoff livescience.com [1]

    “All of these mammals, and all other mammals, are sentient beings who share the same neural architecture underlying their emotional lives and who experience a wide spectrum of emotions including the capacity to feel pain and to suffer.” Bekoff [2]

B. Now it is established that pigs have the capacity to feel pain and to suffer. The third link will be a youtube [3] video graphically showing the cost of bacon.

“Pigs commonly have their teeth cut to the gum line, their tails chopped off, and their ears notched, and some have rings forced into their sensitive noses in order to permanently prevent them from rooting in the grass and dirt.” peacefulprairie.org [4]


Both the capacity to suffer and suffering have now been established. Suffer definition “: to experience pain, illness, or injury

: to experience something unpleasant (such as defeat, loss, or damage)

: to become worse because of being badly affected by something. Merriam-webster [5]

The actions seen in the video and from the peacefulprairie are consistent with all three meanings of the word suffer.



        1. Supply and demand

When purchasing a pig product, in this case bacon you are creating a demand for bacon. Suppliers will then match the supply. Matching the supply means breeding more pigs and new pigs brought into existence. Those pigs will undoubtedly suffer.

Chain reaction, a customer buys bacon which causes demand to increase. Demand increasing causes supply to increase. Supply increasing causes more pigs to be bred. More pigs being bred means more suffering for pigs. Thus buying bacon causes suffering of pigs.

  1. Environment

    It is common knowledge that meat products are more environmentally damaging than plant products. Just for starters trophic levels. Only 10% of biomass is transferred along trophic levels.

  2. Health

    “Hot dogs, bacon and other processed meats cause cancer, World Health Organization declares” Peter Whoriskey [6]

IV. Summary

Bacon production causes pig suffering. Is detrimental to the environment, and is harmful to human health. Because of both the harmful effects to health and animal suffering purchasing bacon fits the definition of animal cruelty. “Cruelty to animals, also called animal abuse or animal neglect, is the human infliction of suffering or harm upon any non-human animal, for purposes other than self-defense or survival.” Wikipedia [7]

Specifically that eating bacon is in no way related to survival.

V. Rebuttal of Con's argument

        1. “1. It tastes amazing and can enhance almost anything”

          Taste is subjective. I for one do not think bacon tastes amazing. “Our tastes can and do change over time for a variety of reasons. Do you now dislike something you used to love, or vice-versa?” theguardian.com [8]

        2. “2. Bacon is just one cut off of a pig and so if you banned bacon you'd be wasting a portion of the animal during butchering unless you are wanting to ban pork altogether “ That is an excellent argument for banning pork altogether.

          1. “3. Bacon is part of a sustainable food source” Vegan is more sustainable.

          2. “4. Bacon has a lot of protein and if eaten in moderation it's not that bad for you”

Beans have lots of protein too. The World Health Organization might disagree with you.

5. “5. Breakfast just wouldn't be breakfast without bacon” I've eaten plenty of breakfast without bacon.
VI. Links

http://www.livescience.com...

http://www.livescience.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

http://www.peacefulprairie.org...

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

https://en.wikipedia.org...

http://www.theguardian.com...




bootsandjeans

Con

Nearly all animals have the capacity to suffer and feel pain if they have a nervous system so pigs are not unique to that, but you are drawing the line for bacon which is one cut of a pig but seemingly ignoring all of the other animals that people use as a food source. There is no doubt that there are companies out there that will abuse their stock of animals and that can be fixed, but it doesn't change the fact that pigs are still a legitimate food source.

When it comes to supply and demand if you ban bacon then the demand for another animal product will take its place. Pig farming doesn't just create bacon for your breakfast it takes multiple cuts from the pig such as bacon, loin, ribs, feet, and so on. If you ban bacon then maybe people will turn to turkey bacon, and then this same argument comes up for the turkey. Banning bacon would not end the supply and demand for other animal products, just one, and you'd still have bacon being farmed locally and eaten locally by those families regardless of whether or not a store would be allowed to sell it.

To your rebuttals:

Taste is subjective sure and so if you don't like the taste of bacon then don't eat it, and if you stop liking something else then great stop eating it, but that doesn't mean you should force others to share your dislike.

Banning bacon would not stop pork production but would waste a cut of meat. It would be wasteful. If your end goal is to ban meat production as a whole then say so because otherwise banning one cut of meat it irresponsible. As for the vegan argument and bean argument how sustainable would a vegan diet be if millions of people were forced to adhere to it? and yes beans have protein, so do other vegetables, but that just means we have options which includes meat.

Breakfast...you've had plenty of breakfast without bacon, again great, that's your choice, but you can't force others to eat your diet. Reverse it and let's ban vegan lifestyles, how fun or fair would that be for you?

Follow up questions:

1. Are you opposed to hunting a pig and taking the bacon?
2. If the farming process was made more humane in your eyes would you be ok with it?
3. Do you really just want to ban meat production as a whole and force millions of people to eat like you?
Debate Round No. 2
Stupidape

Pro

My opponent, Con has no outside sources of yet.

"but it doesn't change the fact that pigs are still a legitimate food source." Con

Vodka has "96 calories" calorieking [1]

By that logic vodka is a legitimate food source. Yet, I don't hear too many people referring to vodka as a food source. Because of the detrimental health effects of bacon, mainly being labeled as a carcinogen by the World Health Organization I argue that bacon is not food. Instead it is a drug with nutrient side effects. Like vodka.

"When it comes to supply and demand if you ban bacon then the demand for another animal product will take its place. " Con

Some may turn to other meat sources, others most likely will turn to vegan alternatives. Another meat source according to the WHO would be less detrimental to human health.

"Banning bacon would not end the supply and demand for other animal products, just one" Con

You make a good argument for banning meat altogether. Since bacon is a subset of the set meat, then bacon would be banned.

"and you'd still have bacon being farmed locally and eaten locally by those families regardless of whether or not a store would be allowed to sell it." Con

You make an argument for giving pigs animal rights that would prevent slaughter.

"Taste is subjective sure and so if you don't like the taste of bacon then don't eat it, and if you stop liking something else then great stop eating it, but that doesn't mean you should force others to share your dislike." Con

You missed the second part about palette changing. "Try it! Grab an apple and the next time your palate is clear (don't do this after a big meal), eat the apple from skin to flesh to seeds and core. Taste it all and chew your food. You will be reminded of the simple flavors of food, and how a simple piece of fruit or veggies can be all you need to satisfy your hunger. " Kathy [2]

"Eating a healthier diet may be intimidating at first. But once you see for yourself how good it makes you feel -- and how good healthy food can taste -- you have a better chance of succeeding. Over time, your preferences will change and cravings for bad-for-you foods will fade away." Webd [3]

"Banning bacon would not stop pork production but would waste a cut of meat. It would be wasteful. If your end goal is to ban meat production as a whole then say so because otherwise banning one cut of meat it irresponsible." Con

An argument for banning pork. Yes meat production as a whole should be banned.

"As for the vegan argument and bean argument how sustainable would a vegan diet be if millions of people were forced to adhere to it? " Con

This can be measured. A vegan diet would be beneficial to the environment.

"The environmental comparison of cheese varieties made from cow milk and directly from lupine and the evaluation of energy inputs in fish protein and vegetable protein also suggest an environmental advantage for vegetarian food. "Am J Clin Nutr September 2003vol. 78 no. 3 664S-668S [4]

"Assessment suggests that on average the complete life cycle environmental impact of nonvegetarian meals may be roughly a factor 1.5"2 higher than the effect of vegetarian meals in which meat has been replaced by vegetable protein." [4]

"only about 10% of the energy transferred between each trophic level is converted to biomass." Wikipedia [5]

"It"s increasingly evident, however, that a part-time vegan diet " one that emphasizes minimally processed plant food at the expense of everything else " is the direction that will do the most to benefit human health, increase animal welfare and reduce environmental impact." nytimes MarkBittman[6]

"Many fishing practices are extremely destructive to delicate habitats - particularly vital fish breeding grounds like coral reefs and seagrass meadows." wwf [7]

"The cattle sector in the Brazilian Amazon is the largest driver of deforestation in the world, responsible for one in every eight hectares destroyed globally. Efforts to halt global deforestation emissions must tackle this sector. " greenpeace [8]

The environmental benefits of everyone eating vegan would be significant.

"Breakfast...you've had plenty of breakfast without bacon, again great, that's your choice, but you can't force others to eat your diet. Reverse it and let's ban vegan lifestyles, how fun or fair would that be for you?" Con

Animals are sentient. Animals can feel pain and suffer. There are more chickens than humans on the planet. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. "There are more chickens populating the planet than people. In fact, the number of chickens in 2002 is more than twice the number of people in 2010. In 2002, 15.9 billion chickens scratched the Earth versus about 7 billion in 2010."[9]

Its not whether it would be fair or not to an individual. Banning vegan lifestyles would be unfair to animals, the majority. Banning the set meat which includes the subset bacon is the only fair way.

"Follow up questions:

1. Are you opposed to hunting a pig and taking the bacon?
2. If the farming process was made more humane in your eyes would you be ok with it?
3. Do you really just want to ban meat production as a whole and force millions of people to eat like you?"

Con

1. Affirmative
2. Negative
3. Affirmative

http://www.calorieking.com...
http://kblog.lunchboxbunch.com...
http://www.webmd.com...
http://ajcn.nutrition.org...
https://en.wikipedia.org...
http://www.nytimes.com...
http://wwf.panda.org...
http://www.greenpeace.org...
http://www.wisegeek.com...
bootsandjeans

Con

The topic is about banning bacon and with only this round to go to counter all of that stuff you posted is just not going to happen, sorry. Fact of the matter is that you can eat meat and still be responsible stewards of the planet.

When it comes to bacon though here is my rebuttal:

- Vodka is as much of a food source as iceberg lettuce would be when it comes to nutritional value and so picking random drinks or foods to compare to isn't really justifying why bacon should be banned
- Banning bacon would not cause people to go vegan. Going vegan is more of a lifestyle choice than anything else just like being a fruitarian or pescatarian or any other terian.
- The vast majority of Americans are not vegans nor do they want to be made one by force.
- Banning something because people don't follow your lifestyle isn't right. It's authoritarian and contrary to what this country is about.
- There are ways to improve the environment without dictating what someone can and can't eat.
- You say that banning veganism would be unfair to animals, well how do you explain animals that eat meat? If they can hunt why can't we? Aren't we animals as well?
Debate Round No. 3
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