The Instigator
DucoNihilum
Pro (for)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
notpolicydebategod
Con (against)
Losing
3 Points

Barack Obama has views contradictory to Libertarianism

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/21/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 993 times Debate No: 3728
Debate Rounds (3)
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Votes (5)

 

DucoNihilum

Pro

I noticed that you were a "Libertarian", yet you contradict your beleif in Libertarianism by supporting Obama. I think that you can not really be a true 'Libertarain' and support Obama.

To define Libertarianism, Libertarianism is a broad spectrum of political philosophies, each sharing the common overall priority of maximum limitation of government combined with optimum possible individual liberty. Its goals, though often varied in detail, prioritize freedom of speech and assembly, freedom to bear arms, freedom of and from religion, Press freedom, economic freedom, and freedom of ownership. Libertarianism rejects the compulsions of socialism and communism, upholding, by contrast, private property, whether held on an individual or group basis. It promotes personal responsibility and private charity, as opposed to welfare statism.

More specifically, Libertarianism is the freedom to do as you will as long as it does not harm anybody else.

Obama's socialistic economic policies are contradictory to Libertarianism, especially Libertarianism as supported by the LP.
notpolicydebategod

Con

To define Libertarianism, Libertarianism is a broad spectrum of political philosophies, each sharing the common overall priority of maximum limitation of government combined with optimum possible individual liberty. Its goals, though often varied in detail, prioritize freedom of speech and assembly, freedom to bear arms, freedom of and from religion, Press freedom, economic freedom, and freedom of ownership. Libertarianism rejects the compulsions of socialism and communism, upholding, by contrast, private property, whether held on an individual or group basis. It promotes personal responsibility and private charity, as opposed to welfare statism.

More specifically, Libertarianism is the freedom to do as you will as long as it does not harm anybody else.

Of course, Barack Obama has views that differ from Libertarianism but he is a candidate who is good with Libertarian issues and can win.As Libertarians we often have to choose between voting for a candidate we agree with more or voting for a candidate who can win and has a large amount of acceptable views. Barack Obama is such a candidate.

- Obama supports the ending of No Child Left Behind, which will lesser the government and imporove education.
- Obama supports civil rights for all people like Libertarians.
- Obama supports lower taxes for the middle class like Libertarians.
- Obama wants to crack down on mortgage fraud. Libertarians are huge on crime, especially fraud.
- Libertarians are huge on the environment, like Obama.
- Obama wants to reward good teachers. Libertarians support punishing bad schools and rewarding good ones.
- Obama is huge on all faiths equal in government, like Libertarians.
- Obama wants to make the tax stystem more efficient like Libertarians.
- Obama supports wants fiscal discipline.
- Obama supports meeting with other countries.
- Obama supports less government intervention in foreign affairs, which the Libertarian Party is huge on.
- Obama wants to create a border fence.
- Obama supports government integrity with veterans.

There are some things that Obama lacks on with Libertarians. Those include: gun control, social security and seemingly health care.

- He is completely devoid of Libertarianism on gun control. He supports it but this is an example of nobody agreeing 100% of any candidate.
- He wants to protect social security instead of privatizing it. Shame, shame.
- His health care plan, however, is magic. It supports all Americans but simultaneously allow competition by allowing Americans to choose from over 200 countries. Libertarians support tax breaks so that competition will be allowed and encouraged but Obama appeases Liberals, Conservatives, and Libertarians who actualy look into his specific health care plan.

I think Obama has some non Libertarianistic views but he has a lot and I am confident in supporting him as a Libertarian.

Thank you. Please vote CON!
Debate Round No. 1
DucoNihilum

Pro

My oponent affirmed my proposition by stating "Of course, Barack Obama has views that differ from Libertarianism"

I will continue to argue why Libertarians should not support a socialist like Obama, however, him having a single issue contradictory to Libertarianism is enough to affirm my proposition- making me win the debate. As far as I see it, my opponent has conceded.

Just because Obama can win does not mean that he will make a good president, especially from a Libertarian standpoint. Obama plans to remove several Liberties from us, and does not support Libertarian policy in general.

I will bring up my objections to his policy, some of which may contradict CON's list of 'good' things he plans to do.

-he defended the New Deal social welfare policies of Franklin D. Roosevelt, associating Republican proposals to establish private accounts for Social Security with Social Darwinism -- The new deal was a policy of socialism, it was essentially a quiet socialist revolution.

-Obama stated that he opposed education vouchers for use at private schools because he believes they would undermine public schools. -- Vouchers are something Libertarians and economic conservatives would use as a negotiation, a compromise between a socialized school system and a free market one. Obama does not support this, as he wants to keep his government monopoly in check. This is contradictory to the views of Libertarians.

- He has energy policies that are in favor of government subsidization of 'alternative' fules. He also wants to force auto-makers to have 50MPG cars (min) by 2030. (NOTE: he also plans to reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050- something that would take a huge hit on our economy, but something that he can't realistically achieve now.)

- Obama supports, to some extent, socialized health care. Socialization of private industries contradicts Libertarianism.

- Obama supports heavy taxation of the rich, something that when done in europe forced hard working Europeans to flea.

- Obama ignorantly supports a plan so that all employees at wal-mart will be able to live as if they were upper middle class citizens, allowing them to pay for their childrens college and their retirement- assuming a permanent job at walmart. Not only is this idealistic, it is absolutely impossible. The only way for him to attempt to realize this would be to raise minimum wage more so than it is already.

- Obama supports a border fence, blocking people from coming into our country is not a Libertarian policy, and those Libertarians who support tough immigration policies only do so because of people like Obama, who would like us to live in a socialist utopia.

- Obama's foreign policy is very similar to that of Bush, however he supports going to war in different parts of the world- such as in Iran or to some extent Darfur.

-Obama supports the ADA, as well as other policies that unfairly force businesses to keep up with strict, impossible regulation just in case somebody with a disability might come into their shop.

- Obama is very anti-gun, supporting the sale of almost all guns. Clearly, violating the constitution and one of the important foundations of Libertarianism is anti-libertarian and anti-liberty. This very issue is enough to not support him for President.

- Obama is in support of the 2006 version of the Patriot Act, which he voted for. He also said that he would support a law banning the burning of flags.

Clearly he does not support the Libertarian cause, but his policies go so far against the causes of Libertarianism, especially as defined by the LP (which you claim to be a member, or at least in support of) that it is impossible to honestly vote for him and call yourself a Libertarian without staring hypocrisy in the face.
notpolicydebategod

Con

notpolicydebategod forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
DucoNihilum

Pro

As my opponent has already conceded my proposition, I extend all arguments. Please remember that since my opponent affirms that obama does in fact have views contradictory to libertarianism, I won the debate, as his duty was to argue CON- that obama does not have views contradictory to libertarianism, as I showed Obamma does in fact have views contradictory to libertarian, and my opponent agrees with me, I feel confident that I won this debate.
notpolicydebategod

Con

notpolicydebategod forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
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5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by antistatist 8 years ago
antistatist
DucoNihilumnotpolicydebategodTied
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Vote Placed by beem0r 8 years ago
beem0r
DucoNihilumnotpolicydebategodTied
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Vote Placed by left_wing_mormon 8 years ago
left_wing_mormon
DucoNihilumnotpolicydebategodTied
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Vote Placed by b3rk 8 years ago
b3rk
DucoNihilumnotpolicydebategodTied
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Vote Placed by DucoNihilum 8 years ago
DucoNihilum
DucoNihilumnotpolicydebategodTied
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