The Instigator
jobes2007
Pro (for)
Tied
36 Points
The Contender
dulinl
Con (against)
Tied
36 Points

Barack Obama is the best choice for '08 president

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/13/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,447 times Debate No: 365
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (24)

 

jobes2007

Pro

Barack is the best choice for president in the upcoming year. This can be easily illustrated by looking at his economic, foreign, and social policies.

First off economic. In 2007 Obama stated that he supported "merit pay" for our teachers. For those of you unfamiliar with Merit Pay it is the concept of paying people at how effective they are at there job. This would encourage teachers to help their students that are having problems, dedicate themselves to the school, and ultimatly get rid of any ineffective teachers.

Obama also voted in favor fo the BioFeuls Security Act in 2007. This is a bill that calls for the cease of production of single-fuel vehicles in 2016, making our automobile market purely hybrid. Obama doesn't just support the health of our biosphere though, he's also interested in the health of the American people, fully in favor of universal health care.

Obama is against favoring the rich in tax cuts too, not wanting to make these estate tax cuts permanent. He also beleives in equal pay, saying "You gotta pay your workers enough that they can actually not only shop at Wal-Mart, but ultimately send their kids to college and save for retirement."

Moving on to Barack's foreign policy. Barack's first major speech on foriegn policy was delivered on April 23, 2007 to the Chicago Council on Global Affairs. He pointed out 5 ways that America can solve it's problems and lead again

"Bringing a responsible end" to the war in Iraq and refocusing on the broader region.
"Building the first truly 21st century military and showing wisdom in how we deploy it."
"Marshalling a global effort" to secure, destroy, and stop the spread of weapons of mass destruction.
"Rebuild and construct the alliances and partnerships necessary to meet common challenges and confront common threats," including climate change.
"Invest in our common humanity" through foreign aid and supporting the "pillars of a sustainable democracy – a strong legislature, an independent judiciary, the rule of law, a vibrant civil society, a free press, and an honest police force."

During the speech Obama also said we should improve our Armed Forces by adding 65,000 soldiers to the Army and 27,000 Marines.

As far as immigration goes Obama supports a guest worker program. He has said "will not support any bill that does not provide [an] earned path to citizenship for the undocumented population."

Finally Barack's social policies, mainly abortion and gay marriage. Obama is in support of abortion and has been highly praised with his votes towards family managment plans and contraceptives. He is also in support of civil unions for homosexuals, sayign all citizens need to have the same rights.

With all these good policies and views I see no other canidate that even compares to Obama. I urge someone to convince me otherwise.
dulinl

Con

I have good policies too. I would like your vote for President.

That sounded silly, didn't it? That's because I have no experience in the matters of any high level executive position. Neither, does Barack. Ideas do not qualify anyone as a good president. You need experience in running a large company or a government office with executive responsibilities (i.e. mayor, or governor).

If you had a company would you hire a guy that came to you with "good" idea's, but no experience in executing them? let alone any experience to learn from attempting to execute them. You should have more respect for the office of President than you would a private company. Your standards should be higher, not lower.

The only experience Barack has is with legislation. Even at that he is limited. He hasn't spear headed anything or been a federal official long enough to even have a firm grasp on the inner workings of Washington (that's why he hasn't taken the lead on anything).

Lastly, when you apply for a job you may share your views for how you can perform the job, but your experience is what gets you in the door. The reason for that is because the best way to predict a person's future performance is by past performance.
Debate Round No. 1
jobes2007

Pro

.... Did you really just tell me that Obama has no experience? He is on the Senate. He's involved in the Foreign Relations Health, Education, Labor & Pensions, Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, Subcommittee on Federal Financial Management, Government Information, Federal Services, and International Security ,Subcommittee on State, Local, and Private Sector Preparedness and Integration, Veterans' Affairs comitties. He's won the following awards:

Best Spoken Word Album, Grammy Award, 2006; Chairman's Award, National Association for the Advancement Colored People, 2005; 100 most influential people in the world, Time Magazine, 2005; 10 people who will change the world, New Statesman, 2005; Harold Blake Walker Award, Christopher House, 2005; Rock the Nation Award, Rock the Vote, 2005; Outstanding Legislator Award, Campaign for Better Health Care and Illinois Primary Health Care Association, 1998; Best Freshman Legislator Award, Independent Voters of Illinois, 1997; Monarch Award for Outstanding Public Service, 1994; "40 Under 40" Award, Crain's Chicago Business, 1993.

He also has written the following publications:

"Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance" (1995); "The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" (2006) and "It Takes a Nation: How Strangers Became Family in the Wake of Hurricane Katrina" (2006).

He's a favored Democratic candidate and has been in all the recent debates. I honestly cannot beleive you just said that.

Also the purpose of this debate is to prove that there is some other candidate that would be a better president something that, no offense, you have failed to do.
dulinl

Con

"Did you really just tell me that Obama has no experience? He is on the Senate. He's involved in the Foreign Relations Health, Education, Labor & Pensions, Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, Subcommittee on Federal Financial Management, Government Information, Federal Services, and International Security ,Subcommittee on State, Local, and Private Sector Preparedness and Integration, Veterans' Affairs committees."

Committees are not Executive experience...you've glanced right over that. And all senators must sit on various committees.

"He's won the following awards:

Best Spoken Word Album, Grammy Award, 2006; Chairman's Award, National Association for the Advancement Colored People, 2005; 100 most influential people in the world, Time Magazine, 2005; 10 people who will change the world, New Statesman, 2005; Harold Blake Walker Award, Christopher House, 2005; Rock the Nation Award, Rock the Vote, 2005; Outstanding Legislator Award, Campaign for Better Health Care and Illinois Primary Health Care Association, 1998; Best Freshman Legislator Award, Independent Voters of Illinois, 1997; Monarch Award for Outstanding Public Service, 1994; "40 Under 40" Award, Crain's Chicago Business, 1993."

Again, none of those show any Executive experience, seems like he's politically active. That doesn't qualify as Executive experience.

"He also has written the following publications:

"Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance" (1995); "The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream" (2006) and "It Takes a Nation: How Strangers Became Family in the Wake of Hurricane Katrina" (2006)."

See previous response.

"He's a favored Democratic candidate and has been in all the recent debates. I honestly cannot beleive you just said that."

Again no proof of executive experience. It's not my fault if the Democrats elect ppl like it's the prom king or something.

"Also the purpose of this debate is to prove that there is some other candidate that would be a better president something that, no offense, you have failed to do."

No read the subject line, "Barack Obama is the best choice for '08 president". It does not reference anyone except Barack. I simply have to prove that he is not the best choice for '08 president, not give a specific candidate as an alternate. My argument is that he doesn't have the needed experience to be president. Anyone having the experience i've listed would be better suited in my opinion. But, you however haven't addressed any of my argument, so it would be you that is "failing".
Debate Round No. 2
jobes2007

Pro

I really don't see how you think you're proving me wrong. Ok, maybe Obama does not have executive experience.... So what does that mean? You haven't presented anything for me to debate against. I don't see what to say here.
dulinl

Con

"I really don't see how you think you're proving me wrong. Ok, maybe Obama does not have executive experience.... So what does that mean? You haven't presented anything for me to debate against. I don't see what to say here."

I except your surrender. Like I said there are many candidates that have executive experience. I suggest u take a serious look at a few of them. Any of them are capable of doing the job. I don't agree with many of them, but at least I know they speak from experience and not just full of "good ideas".
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
No my point was that the argument taht Barack Obama is a bad choice does not establish that he is not the best choice. The claims do not follow.
Posted by hattopic 9 years ago
hattopic
I'm voting con simply because pro didn't respond to any of the arguments effectively. But, it would have been nice if you'd proved that executive experience was necessary to be the president. You asserted it, but you didn't back it up with a ton of evidence.
Posted by nrw 9 years ago
nrw
Yea man, he's right, his opponent did give up in Round 3. And, his opponent also didn't answer the executive exp. args, I did. lol.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
In order to bring up So_Damn_Insane

For example, Sadaam was reelected to his office a year or so before the war. Was he the best candidate? Yes. He was. He was the only candidate! It doesn't matter how bad you are, it's a tangent to the question of whether or not you are the best.

and then compare that thug dictator to our political system, can only mean one thing

you are a liberal and have BDS
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
If I accepted all of your points are accurate. Obama has limited experience. I am not able to jump to the conclusion that Obama is not the best choice for president in 08. The pro argument asserted that "With all these good policies and views I see no other canidate that even compares to Obama. I urge someone to convince me otherwise." -- Noting that Obama was the best "canidate" with a supporting argument. I see no direct argument against this. I see an argument that Obama may not be as good of a candidate as the Pro would have one believe, but nothing against being the best.

For example, Sadaam was reelected to his office a year or so before the war. Was he the best candidate? Yes. He was. He was the only candidate! It doesn't matter how bad you are, it's a tangent to the question of whether or not you are the best.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
Obama is 1000 times better than the Hildebeest ,and better than Edwards

I think there are some others dems who are more qualified, but he is a nice, educated articulate liberal

that being said, Thompson is the man and the republicans have a much better and more qualified field for the job

and thats what it is- a job - you need to be the best for the job requirements

National Security
Leadership
Taxes
Public Policy
International Affairs
Social Policy
Appointing Judges

etc
etc
Posted by dulinl 9 years ago
dulinl
Oh yeah. And to support your stupid vote your adding to his argument. He didn't challenge my requirement for executive experience. So, no you voted your view. Delete your account you shouldn't be here.
Posted by dulinl 9 years ago
dulinl
He for fitted his 3rd round. Your a tool.
Posted by Tatarize 9 years ago
Tatarize
No he did not. He said:

I really don't see how you think you're proving me wrong. Ok, maybe Obama does not have executive experience.... So what does that mean? You haven't presented anything for me to debate against. I don't see what to say here.

You argued that he doesn't have executive experience. Had that been the argument, he would have conceded. He agreed that Obama does not have executive experience and *RIGHTLY* said it was a tangent to the argument.

Did your argument suggest that executive experience was the only or most required element to make a choice for president? Did you argue that there was a better choice? No. You didn't. Certainly you refuted a number of his points and made several of your own. However, you missed the central point or at the very least didn't state your counter-argument.

I am very much Judging the argument. I'm an Edwards supporter myself. My vote is my view on the argument.
Posted by dulinl 9 years ago
dulinl
Sigh...what don't you understand about judging debates. He gave up in round 3. There is no way you should vote for him. Your voting your view not the argument. Your what's wrong with this site. That just really p/o's me.
24 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by Pricetag 9 years ago
Pricetag
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by cscanzoni 9 years ago
cscanzoni
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Ineffablesquirrel 9 years ago
Ineffablesquirrel
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by Ozymandias 9 years ago
Ozymandias
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by JoeDSileo 9 years ago
JoeDSileo
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by mrpresident 9 years ago
mrpresident
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by ggravelle 9 years ago
ggravelle
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by reaganist 9 years ago
reaganist
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by smackattack 9 years ago
smackattack
jobes2007dulinlTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30